RE: Ferrari 458 Italia: Spotted

[Robert-nszl1]

big_rob_sydney said:

As an investment, its a pretty poor return.

Why buy it then if you're not going to drive it? This should be ragged to within an inch of its life, surely. And even then, if you REALLY want to go fast, buy a much cheaper track specific car (e.g. ex formula car), or something like a GTR or GT3 and lots of tires and track days, and set aside money for maintenance, etc.

It's a nice enough willy waver, but beyond that, I don't really see the point (and I'm Italian myself; sacrilege / apostasy? ).

Because on the right roads, these cars are a joy to drive. Not about willy waving, just the joy of the Vosges mountains at dusk, or an early morning blast in the Tuscan hills. And sometimes it takes a while to get there, so you want a bit of comfort too. These are the great all round sports cars; they look beautiful, drive brilliantly, sound amazing....if you can't see the point? Well that leaves the roads clearer for those of us that do

[big_rob_sydney]

Robert-nszl1 said:

big_rob_sydney said:

As an investment, its a pretty poor return.

Why buy it then if you're not going to drive it? This should be ragged to within an inch of its life, surely. And even then, if you REALLY want to go fast, buy a much cheaper track specific car (e.g. ex formula car), or something like a GTR or GT3 and lots of tires and track days, and set aside money for maintenance, etc.

It's a nice enough willy waver, but beyond that, I don't really see the point (and I'm Italian myself; sacrilege / apostasy? ).

Because on the right roads, these cars are a joy to drive. Not about willy waving, just the joy of the Vosges mountains at dusk, or an early morning blast in the Tuscan hills. And sometimes it takes a while to get there, so you want a bit of comfort too. These are the great all round sports cars; they look beautiful, drive brilliantly, sound amazing....if you can't see the point? Well that leaves the roads clearer for those of us that do

I think you're confusing a few things here. In your own words "These are the great all round sports cars" ; this is my point, there are faster cars for the money.

You seem to be buying into the emotion; Vosges mountains, and Tuscany? Please, there are roads all over the planet.

And your final point is quite illogical; if I don't buy a Ferrari the roads will be clearer? You do realise the roads are clogged up with all sorts of cars, right? And 99.9% of them are not Ferrari's, right?

Mate, your post is so full of contradictions. Why??

[Robert-nszl1]

big_rob_sydney said:

I think you're confusing a few things here. In your own words "These are the great all round sports cars" ; this is my point, there are faster cars for the money.

You seem to be buying into the emotion; Vosges mountains, and Tuscany? Please, there are roads all over the planet.

And your final point is quite illogical; if I don't buy a Ferrari the roads will be clearer? You do realise the roads are clogged up with all sorts of cars, right? And 99.9% of them are not Ferrari's, right?

Mate, your post is so full of contradictions. Why??

Firstly I'm not your mate.

There are no contradictions. These are great all round sports cars, for some the greatest. Note I say 'all round'. Not necessarily the fastest. But these are road cars that can be tracked. Not pure track cars. Cars aren't always about being the fastest though most would agree a Ferrari 458 is a fast car.

There are indeed roads all over the planet...your point is? I am merely pointing out a couple of my favourite more recent driving experiences. And are you suggesting it is wrong to experience emotion? That's what life is about!

My last point is if you don't get any of this then you won't be where I want to go. One less person to overtake is good however many others there are....

[big_rob_sydney]

Robert-nszl1 said:

big_rob_sydney said:

I think you're confusing a few things here. In your own words "These are the great all round sports cars" ; this is my point, there are faster cars for the money.

You seem to be buying into the emotion; Vosges mountains, and Tuscany? Please, there are roads all over the planet.

And your final point is quite illogical; if I don't buy a Ferrari the roads will be clearer? You do realise the roads are clogged up with all sorts of cars, right? And 99.9% of them are not Ferrari's, right?

Mate, your post is so full of contradictions. Why??

Firstly I'm not your mate.

There are no contradictions. These are great all round sports cars, for some the greatest. Note I say 'all round'. Not necessarily the fastest. But these are road cars that can be tracked. Not pure track cars. Cars aren't always about being the fastest though most would agree a Ferrari 458 is a fast car.

There are indeed roads all over the planet...your point is? I am merely pointing out a couple of my favourite more recent driving experiences. And are you suggesting it is wrong to experience emotion? That's what life is about!

My last point is if you don't get any of this then you won't be where I want to go. One less person to overtake is good however many others there are....

No worries "mate".

I noted your half hearted cop out of "all round". That is my point; when you look at road cars, you have to figure out the compromise. And at this price point, you would expect there to be less compromises, because this price point buys more unobtainium in materials science, and in theory ought to provide more leeway for designers in terms of how broad an operating envelope they might attempt. If you're looking at this price point, chances are, you have enough behind you to buy more than one car, and in so doing, accept less compromises. Still, we do have your vague cop outs to cover all bases.

Good back pedalling on your roads. Congratulations, you have favourite roads. Do you believe you're the only one on the planet with such, "mate"?

[Robert-nszl1]

big_rob_sydney said:

No worries "mate".

I noted your half hearted cop out of "all round". That is my point; when you look at road cars, you have to figure out the compromise. And at this price point, you would expect there to be less compromises, because this price point buys more unobtainium in materials science, and in theory ought to provide more leeway for designers in terms of how broad an operating envelope they might attempt. If you're looking at this price point, chances are, you have enough behind you to buy more than one car, and in so doing, accept less compromises. Still, we do have your vague cop outs to cover all bases.

Good back pedalling on your roads. Congratulations, you have favourite roads. Do you believe you're the only one on the planet with such, "mate"?

Some save hard to buy their dream car, some can afford many. The great thing about cars is that they are varied and suit every budget. I tend to like cars that have a bit of heritage; not exclusively, but it's the intangible aspects of a car that often give them their character, and history often plays a part in that.

I think where you and I differ is in the nature of what makes driving enjoyable. The car I currently own that I enjoy driving most is my 1973 Alfa Giulia GTV. It's been modified by Alfaholics, so has a little more power but more importantly upgraded suspension and brakes. To me it is a very pretty car, and even in standard form was a very advanced car in its time (5 speed gearbox, disc brakes all round etc) For the money (about £35-40k) you could buy a car with much more performance. Would it be as much fun to drive? Not to me.

And the 458? As a modern car, while it lacks a manual gearbox, it is still a visceral experience driving it. It is taut, exciting and it certainly sounds good. With the budget there are many cars you could buy, though I doubt many have a wider operating envelope, as you describe it, and few that look as good (subjective I know). You keep talking about compromise, but compromise in what sense exactly? I don't want a racing car, I want a fast road car.

Regarding roads, I mentioned a couple of places I like driving......no back pedalling. Er....yes others will have their favourites too! I suspect you are in the minority on here if the prospect of an early morning drive through the Tuscan hills in a Ferrari 458 isn't of interest.

[Maldini35]

greenarrow said:

This article brings home how much has changed in a decade. When the 458 was launched in 2010 it won every single road test. The following year McLaren launched the MP4-12C and it was beaten by the 458 in pretty much every comparison test. This 458 is significant for not only being the last mid engined Ferrari to be launched with a n/a engine, but the last that topped its class with ease. The 488 has unfortunately for Ferrari been completely over-shadowed by the McLaren 720S. The 488 Pista didn't exactly get rave reviews last year and the 812 Superfast similarly didn't win any COTY awards.

Ferrari really needs to get its mojo back with the new model.

For now, the 458 Italia is likely to go down as one of the greats so I'm not surprised at the asking price. Its my favourite Ferrari of recent times although purely as an armchair fan!!

I have to agree, the 458 is my favourite Ferrari since the 355.
A 488 might be faster but just doesn’t excite me like the 458.

[Jex]

Maldini35 said:

greenarrow said:

This article brings home how much has changed in a decade. When the 458 was launched in 2010 it won every single road test. The following year McLaren launched the MP4-12C and it was beaten by the 458 in pretty much every comparison test. This 458 is significant for not only being the last mid engined Ferrari to be launched with a n/a engine, but the last that topped its class with ease. The 488 has unfortunately for Ferrari been completely over-shadowed by the McLaren 720S. The 488 Pista didn't exactly get rave reviews last year and the 812 Superfast similarly didn't win any COTY awards.

Ferrari really needs to get its mojo back with the new model.

For now, the 458 Italia is likely to go down as one of the greats so I'm not surprised at the asking price. Its my favourite Ferrari of recent times although purely as an armchair fan!!

I have to agree, the 458 is my favourite Ferrari since the 355.
A 488 might be faster but just doesn’t excite me like the 458.

I agree, but a manual 355 with a Capristo exhaust is the best in my opinion (provided you can manage with only 375 bhp).
Looks great, sounds great.

[GranCab]

For me the 458 hits the sweet spot between older mid-engine V8 Ferraris and the latest turbocharged 488s.

Looks, noise, performance and build quality ... it's all there.

[big_rob_sydney]

Robert-nszl1 said:

Some save hard to buy their dream car, some can afford many. The great thing about cars is that they are varied and suit every budget. I tend to like cars that have a bit of heritage; not exclusively, but it's the intangible aspects of a car that often give them their character, and history often plays a part in that.

I think where you and I differ is in the nature of what makes driving enjoyable. The car I currently own that I enjoy driving most is my 1973 Alfa Giulia GTV. It's been modified by Alfaholics, so has a little more power but more importantly upgraded suspension and brakes. To me it is a very pretty car, and even in standard form was a very advanced car in its time (5 speed gearbox, disc brakes all round etc) For the money (about £35-40k) you could buy a car with much more performance. Would it be as much fun to drive? Not to me.

And the 458? As a modern car, while it lacks a manual gearbox, it is still a visceral experience driving it. It is taut, exciting and it certainly sounds good. With the budget there are many cars you could buy, though I doubt many have a wider operating envelope, as you describe it, and few that look as good (subjective I know). You keep talking about compromise, but compromise in what sense exactly? I don't want a racing car, I want a fast road car.

Regarding roads, I mentioned a couple of places I like driving......no back pedalling. Er....yes others will have their favourites too! I suspect you are in the minority on here if the prospect of an early morning drive through the Tuscan hills in a Ferrari 458 isn't of interest.

Thank you for attempting to put words in my mouth; as an Italian myself, I've driven many miles all over Italy, and I don't require you to tell me where I could, would, or should enjoy.

I do find it hilarious though that in the other Ferrari thread, you are producing the exact same sentiment I have stated regarding multiple cars and compromises. You have clearly understood my point, yet here are seeking to argue the toss...

Nice one, "mate".

[Onehp]

Sentiment is personal and 100% valid. For that person, and only for others to respect even if they don't understand it.

I drove a 458 on mountain roads. The right pedal was amazing, the others controls or the suspension didn't come even close. So I didn't like it. My sentiment...

[Robert-nszl1]

big_rob_sydney said:

Thank you for attempting to put words in my mouth; as an Italian myself, I've driven many miles all over Italy, and I don't require you to tell me where I could, would, or should enjoy.

I do find it hilarious though that in the other Ferrari thread, you are producing the exact same sentiment I have stated regarding multiple cars and compromises. You have clearly understood my point, yet here are seeking to argue the toss...

Nice one, "mate".

I wasn't suggesting for one moment where you should drive. Indeed you've already stated you don't buy into the emotion and that there are many other roads in the world. I suspect others on here would however agree with my sentiment. To ease your Italian conscience for not wanting to drive a Ferrari in Tuscany, make it the Jura on a clear, cold March day. Is that easier for you to disagree with?

With regard to the other thread, I merely pointed out people can use their cars as they wish, and low mileage isn't indicative of the the owner not enjoying their car. It in no way suggests compromise, it is the reality of owning a number of cars.

Clearly I can't teach you anything about driving in Italy. A 458 is apparently compromised, and there are other cars that have a bigger operating window for the money. Why don't you tell us all what car you'd pick, and where you'd drive it? All I can see is you own a Lexus...no doubt a fine car, but hardly one that generates much in the way of excitement on any level.... I don't know if you've noticed 'maestro', but this is a site for car enthusiasts....

[GTSJOE]

I agree with Robert NsZL. I’m on my second 458, had one in 2014 for a few years, sold it as something else turned my head, now back in my second car which is a keeper. There is something special about European road trips in a 458, it’s such a versatile car, can be as comfortable as a Bentley on the autoroute but turns into a proper track car on the mountain passes, fast B roads, will be taking mine to the Dolomites this summer!
As regards the Ad, pity that the 458 hasn’t been used, hope new owner racks up the miles.

[BlackPrince]

big_rob_sydney said:

As an investment, its a pretty poor return.

Why buy it then if you're not going to drive it? This should be ragged to within an inch of its life, surely. And even then, if you REALLY want to go fast, buy a much cheaper track specific car (e.g. ex formula car), or something like a GTR or GT3 and lots of tires and track days, and set aside money for maintenance, etc.

It's a nice enough willy waver, but beyond that, I don't really see the point (and I'm Italian myself; sacrilege / apostasy? ).

Can you honestly not see the appeal of a naturally aspirated V8 that revs to 9000 rpm in a beautiful car that goes, stops and handles well?

And I say that as someone who drove an F430 once and other than how quick the steering was, I was somewhat underwhelmed (this is no knock on 430s, perhaps it was the road or my unrealistic expectations)

Or are you just referring to this particular low mileage car and not being able to see the point of that (which is fair)?

How many supercar enthusiasts are particularly interested in trackdays and/or driving like mentalists? Thus your suggestion that they buy a F2 car or whatever, or a GT3 isn't that relevant. Many Ferrari owners are just into the pose presumably (like owners of other marques as well), and some are into enthusiastic road driving for an afternoon or so. I suspect a relatively small minority are into trackdays, driving tours etc.

[Fire99]

Strangely there was a time when 'faster was best' for me, but I think we're at a point where it's mostly academic and advertising posturing.

I'd certainly take a 458 over a 488 any day of the week. The N/A shriek adds far greater visceral experience in the 458. In an ideal world, a manual option would have been available. Technically slower but just that bit more engaging (and challenging).

[Jex]

The problem with the perception of Ferrari owners is that inevitably those who buy them to pose in will be seen much more often than those who don't, therefore people will assume that most Ferrari drivers are posers. That is not my experience.

[nickfrog]

Jex said:

The problem with the perception of Ferrari owners is that inevitably those who buy them to pose in will be seen much more often than those who don't, therefore people will assume that most Ferrari drivers are posers. That is not my experience.

Same. The perception is also often the result of envy and chip on shoulder type of people who simply can't accept that there is an awful lot of wealth around so they need to feel better about themselves by slagging owners off ("vulgar", "drug dealer", "rich arab", "more money than sense", etc etc).

[anonymous-user]

big_rob_sydney said:

As an investment, its a pretty poor return.

Why buy it then if you're not going to drive it? This should be ragged to within an inch of its life, surely. And even then, if you REALLY want to go fast, buy a much cheaper track specific car (e.g. ex formula car), or something like a GTR or GT3 and lots of tires and track days, and set aside money for maintenance, etc.

It's a nice enough willy waver, but beyond that, I don't really see the point (and I'm Italian myself; sacrilege / apostasy? ).

You can't go fast in this country, 70mph is the max your allowed to do,150mph and you are liable to spend time in clink but that doesn't mean everybody's got to buy a Nissan Micra and as for track days the biggest cure for insomnia is a trip to Snetterton.

[BVB]

The 458 could be released today and still win best supercar, looks and engine wise. It's a masterpiece.

[nickfrog]

Raygun said:

as for track days the biggest cure for insomnia is a trip to Snetterton.

You don't like the circuit ? It's one of my favourites and perhaps my favourite UK, on a par with Silverstone.

Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 5th March 11:53

[GranCab]

Raygun said:

You can't go fast in this country, 70mph is the max your allowed to do,150mph and you are liable to spend time in clink but that doesn't mean everybody's got to buy a Nissan Micra and as for track days the biggest cure for insomnia is a trip to Snetterton.

So you don't exceed the prevailing speed limits in your "F430" when driving in the UK then Raygun ? .....