RE: Jaguar I-Pace wins European Car of the Year
Discussion
ballans said:
Not sure where all this JLR reliability and dealer bashing comes from. Not my experience at all.
I may have been lucky but mrs B has put over 60k miles on her Freelander and it’s been completely trouble free (her idea of servicing and maintenance only involves giving it a name and talking to it nicely) and I put over 90k miles on my XF in 2 years and almost as trouble free. It developed an intermittent gearbox fault but my local Jag dealer was excellent and supplied me with a very nice courtesy car while they dealt with the problem. All sorted no questions asked.
Anyway, the new I-Pace looks excellent and well done on winning the award. Hopefully a positive step forward for the company.
Warranty statiatics and similar data look pretty nasty for JLR, its been like that for a while, not sure why and if its focused on some of the products. I may have been lucky but mrs B has put over 60k miles on her Freelander and it’s been completely trouble free (her idea of servicing and maintenance only involves giving it a name and talking to it nicely) and I put over 90k miles on my XF in 2 years and almost as trouble free. It developed an intermittent gearbox fault but my local Jag dealer was excellent and supplied me with a very nice courtesy car while they dealt with the problem. All sorted no questions asked.
Anyway, the new I-Pace looks excellent and well done on winning the award. Hopefully a positive step forward for the company.
dvs_dave said:
Is that so? Would you care to elaborate and share some of the facts you supposedly have to the contrary?
"Research conducted by the Mobility, Logistics and Automotive Technology Research Centre in Brussels found that an EV that uses electricity from non-renewable sources will emit slightly more emissions over its lifetime than a diesel car, but less than a petrol car." And that doesn't include the mining and extraction issues around Cobalt and Lithium. A combination of inaccessibility and political instability in areas where they are located has both an energy and a human cost. As technology moves on then the balance will swing inevitably towards renewable sources and improved battery technology which will swing this to the electric car. It does make you wonder why diesel is so vilified - a convenient scapegoat or just an easy target?Roy m said:
"Research conducted by the Mobility, Logistics and Automotive Technology Research Centre in Brussels found that an EV that uses electricity from non-renewable sources will emit slightly more emissions over its lifetime than a diesel car, but less than a petrol car."
What that report actually says is"In the extreme scenario in which BEVs are 100% powered with coal or oil based electricity, BEVs have an impact comparable to petrol and diesel vehicles"
It's true that some countries like Poland and Latvia have a very high level of coal use so all they are doing there is switching emissions from city to generation - a benefit in itself. The EU28 is much more renewables-based and Britain is about the same, so the comparison above just isn't relevant here.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ right now 1% of our energy demand is being served by coal.
The report you mention concludes with "This paper concludes that electric vehicles are more environmentally friendly on a life cycle basis (including electricity production and the production of the vehicle and its components) compared to the conventional petrol and diesel vehicles"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/... another take on the same
Edited by essayer on Tuesday 5th March 17:18
essayer said:
Roy m said:
"Research conducted by the Mobility, Logistics and Automotive Technology Research Centre in Brussels found that an EV that uses electricity from non-renewable sources will emit slightly more emissions over its lifetime than a diesel car, but less than a petrol car."
What that report actually says is"In the extreme scenario in which BEVs are 100% powered with coal or oil based electricity, BEVs have an impact comparable to petrol and diesel vehicles"
It's true that some countries like Poland and Latvia have a very high level of coal use so all they are doing there is switching emissions from city to generation - a benefit in itself. The EU28 is much more renewables-based and Britain is about the same, so the comparison above just isn't relevant here.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ right now 1% of our energy demand is being served by coal.
The report you mention concludes with "This paper concludes that electric vehicles are more environmentally friendly on a life cycle basis (including electricity production and the production of the vehicle and its components) compared to the conventional petrol and diesel vehicles"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/... another take on the same
Classic!dvs_dave said:
How deliciously ironic. An EV naysayer deliberately misrepresenting a source by taking quotes out of context to support his own misguided agenda.
Classic!
The quote I used was taken directly from the report which I quoted exactly. The points made above in response are correct but also taken in a different context. For example "The result is that between July and September, the capacity of wind, solar, biomass and hydropower reached 41.9 gigawatts, exceeding the 41.2GW capacity of coal, gas and oil-fired power plants." Illustrates that the current renewable measures have mostly been during summer months. Recent months have shown an increased use of coal IN THE UK due to increases in the price of gas (although this is relatively small) which will lead to a pollution increase. Classic!If you had actually read my posts you would see that I started by saying that I was considering the I pace so hardly an 'EV naysayer'.
In my 25 years in Academia I had many occasions where I had to persuade students to leave their own prejudices and present the facts which arise from their research. I'm retired now so will leave you to your ill informed prejudices and go back to burning fossil fuels.
Roy m said:
dvs_dave said:
How deliciously ironic. An EV naysayer deliberately misrepresenting a source by taking quotes out of context to support his own misguided agenda.
Classic!
The quote I used was taken directly from the report which I quoted exactly. The points made above in response are correct but also taken in a different context. For example "The result is that between July and September, the capacity of wind, solar, biomass and hydropower reached 41.9 gigawatts, exceeding the 41.2GW capacity of coal, gas and oil-fired power plants." Illustrates that the current renewable measures have mostly been during summer months. Recent months have shown an increased use of coal IN THE UK due to increases in the price of gas (although this is relatively small) which will lead to a pollution increase. Classic!If you had actually read my posts you would see that I started by saying that I was considering the I pace so hardly an 'EV naysayer'.
In my 25 years in Academia I had many occasions where I had to persuade students to leave their own prejudices and present the facts which arise from their research. I'm retired now so will leave you to your ill informed prejudices and go back to burning fossil fuels.
Well, I've just had my iPace a week as I did get one of the lease deals last year. First impressions are that for a commute it's incredible and why would you want a ICE. I admit that for a longer journey it's going to be painful to have to stop - reality says 150 miles is sensible range and that presumes you start from fully charged.
Acceleration addictive, quiet, smooth, ridiculous list price but that's going to change.
Acceleration addictive, quiet, smooth, ridiculous list price but that's going to change.
Simonium said:
Given the fact that the Peugeot 3008 and Opel Astra won this in 2017 and 2016 respectively and both are truly woeful, I’d suggest this award is indicative of nothing other than a last minute advertising revenue windfall, or a sympathy vote.
Agree ,It's like bloody Eurovision but with wheels onBuster73 said:
I thought the next years model came out after the summer break ?
September onwards ?
You would think that wouldn’t yoU. Lease company advised that some of the cars would be MY20. The Jaguar configuratior changed in November (IIRC) to add the heated steering wheel and heated screen to the S.September onwards ?
dvs_dave said:
essayer said:
Roy m said:
"Research conducted by the Mobility, Logistics and Automotive Technology Research Centre in Brussels found that an EV that uses electricity from non-renewable sources will emit slightly more emissions over its lifetime than a diesel car, but less than a petrol car."
What that report actually says is"In the extreme scenario in which BEVs are 100% powered with coal or oil based electricity, BEVs have an impact comparable to petrol and diesel vehicles"
It's true that some countries like Poland and Latvia have a very high level of coal use so all they are doing there is switching emissions from city to generation - a benefit in itself. The EU28 is much more renewables-based and Britain is about the same, so the comparison above just isn't relevant here.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ right now 1% of our energy demand is being served by coal.
The report you mention concludes with "This paper concludes that electric vehicles are more environmentally friendly on a life cycle basis (including electricity production and the production of the vehicle and its components) compared to the conventional petrol and diesel vehicles"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/... another take on the same
Classic!williamp said:
CambsBill said:
RobDickinson said:
CambsBill said:
Care to share a 'metric' that shows Jaguar at the bottom of a reliability chart? Most I've seen they're near the top nowadays.
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/jd...
https://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer
Then again, one survey has Porsche close to the top, the other has it close to the bottom. What does that make Porsche, average?
Do be aware that JDP changed the metric in 2015 and silly faults with ICE/HMI are now more significant. I prefer to look at Warranty Direct's data as it perhaps better reflects what the owner of an older vehicle might expect - especially important once it's out of warranty.
Depends on how you look at the stats; A new Lexus owner ought to go back to the dealer once, on average. A LR owner, twice. On face value, it's not a colossal difference.
Of course, that doesn't ring true with the individual owner who boasts about his car being perfect, whilst another bemoans it took three visits to fix it.
Probably the only safe conclusion is that the less electronic toot a car has on it, the less likely it is to go wrong. Which might possibly explain why Skodas are good and Audis are s
te.
There is also some concern that cars which have irritating/impossible HMIs get marked down by JDP. That's an irritation, not a breakdown. Try telling that to a freezing Ian-Paice owner who cannot see his range...
Depends on how you look at the stats; A new Lexus owner ought to go back to the dealer once, on average. A LR owner, twice. On face value, it's not a colossal difference.
Of course, that doesn't ring true with the individual owner who boasts about his car being perfect, whilst another bemoans it took three visits to fix it.
Probably the only safe conclusion is that the less electronic toot a car has on it, the less likely it is to go wrong. Which might possibly explain why Skodas are good and Audis are s
te. There is also some concern that cars which have irritating/impossible HMIs get marked down by JDP. That's an irritation, not a breakdown. Try telling that to a freezing Ian-Paice owner who cannot see his range...
RJG46 said:
dvs_dave said:
essayer said:
Roy m said:
"Research conducted by the Mobility, Logistics and Automotive Technology Research Centre in Brussels found that an EV that uses electricity from non-renewable sources will emit slightly more emissions over its lifetime than a diesel car, but less than a petrol car."
What that report actually says is"In the extreme scenario in which BEVs are 100% powered with coal or oil based electricity, BEVs have an impact comparable to petrol and diesel vehicles"
It's true that some countries like Poland and Latvia have a very high level of coal use so all they are doing there is switching emissions from city to generation - a benefit in itself. The EU28 is much more renewables-based and Britain is about the same, so the comparison above just isn't relevant here.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ right now 1% of our energy demand is being served by coal.
The report you mention concludes with "This paper concludes that electric vehicles are more environmentally friendly on a life cycle basis (including electricity production and the production of the vehicle and its components) compared to the conventional petrol and diesel vehicles"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/... another take on the same
Classic!RJG46 said:
RJG46 said:
dvs_dave said:
essayer said:
Roy m said:
"Research conducted by the Mobility, Logistics and Automotive Technology Research Centre in Brussels found that an EV that uses electricity from non-renewable sources will emit slightly more emissions over its lifetime than a diesel car, but less than a petrol car."
What that report actually says is"In the extreme scenario in which BEVs are 100% powered with coal or oil based electricity, BEVs have an impact comparable to petrol and diesel vehicles"
It's true that some countries like Poland and Latvia have a very high level of coal use so all they are doing there is switching emissions from city to generation - a benefit in itself. The EU28 is much more renewables-based and Britain is about the same, so the comparison above just isn't relevant here.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ right now 1% of our energy demand is being served by coal.
The report you mention concludes with "This paper concludes that electric vehicles are more environmentally friendly on a life cycle basis (including electricity production and the production of the vehicle and its components) compared to the conventional petrol and diesel vehicles"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/... another take on the same
Classic!
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