RE: McLaren Grand Tourer: Geneva 2019

[Maldini35]

Thorburn said:

Stuffing the kids into the luggage space is generally frowned upon these days. Probably acceptable in the 80's though.

This is why I bought an Evora 400 as a 2+2 rather than the Sport 410 which they only do as a 2+0.

Superb choice.
Evora 400 is a great car.

[Carl_Manchester]

GranCab said:

blasos said:

You're very much incorrect: apostrophes should be placed before the aforementioned decades to show the omission of the century number viz. '60s and '70s.

Your apostrophes are in the correct place ... his were placed after the decade e.g. 60's which, as I'm sure you know, is incorrect.

Edited by GranCab on Friday 5th April 09:27

Blimey, it is tough going in this thread......

[2manycars]

Another McLaren!!!!!
That company must be hemorrhaging money. They just keep churning out boring cars with little to no thought.
Same carbon tub, same engine, same turbos, same iris system, same interior, same same same.
I’ve keep hearing they want to have a 22 model line up which is crazy considering the amount of time they want to do it in.
I can just see this as a larger 570GT albeit with a faster 0-62mph.

[Europa1]

2manycars said:

That company must be hemorrhaging money. They just keep churning out boring cars with little to no thought.
Same carbon tub, same engine, same turbos, same iris system, same interior, same same same.

Or else they are coining it in? Simply reheating the same recipe time and time again, reusing components for which the capital investment has already been recovered.

[2manycars]

Europa1 said:

2manycars said:

That company must be hemorrhaging money. They just keep churning out boring cars with little to no thought.
Same carbon tub, same engine, same turbos, same iris system, same interior, same same same.

Or else they are coining it in? Simply reheating the same recipe time and time again, reusing components for which the capital investment has already been recovered.

I just don’t see it though, you could walk into most McLaren dealerships and get a 600lt, a car that was supposed to be limited.
They do a decent job but I just don’t think kids grow up wanting a McLaren like they do a Ferrari or Lamborghini, just too many models that all look very similar.

[markj113]

I really want to love mclaren but I just dont.

They do great in top trumps with next gen performance but they all look pretty much the same to me and just dont ignite the same spark in me as a lambo or ferrari do.

I kind of get the same limp dick response as I do when I look at a tesla.

Edited by markj113 on Tuesday 7th May 20:38

[anonymous-user]

markj113 said:

I really want to love mclaren but I just dont. they all look pretty much the same to me

Show me any manufacturer today whose cars don't "all look pretty much the same".

My favourite is Audi, who make their sports cars look like their saloons....

[E65Ross]

rockin said:

markj113 said:

I really want to love mclaren but I just dont. they all look pretty much the same to me

Show me any manufacturer today whose cars don't "all look pretty much the same".

My favourite is Audi, who make their sports cars look like their saloons....

You can understand his point, I mean, look at the F8 Tributo and tell me it even looks remotely similar from the front to an 812 Superfast!

[2manycars]

I think the last few comments on here are all echoing the same thoughts, that McLaren don’t really make exciting cars anymore. They’ve kind of slipped into the Porsche territory of just rehashed and updated models. Shame really.

[Sway]

Europa1 said:

2manycars said:

That company must be hemorrhaging money. They just keep churning out boring cars with little to no thought.
Same carbon tub, same engine, same turbos, same iris system, same interior, same same same.

Or else they are coining it in? Simply reheating the same recipe time and time again, reusing components for which the capital investment has already been recovered.

Except they're not the same bits at all.

Tub has changed a few times. They have two core tub architectures (monocell and monocage) and each is on it's 2nd or 3rd generation.

Engine has changed massively between models - just because the format and capacity have remained static don't think it's just different states of tune.

Design of interior has followed the same core style - but certainly no more so than any other manufacturer, Ferrari included.

Design has changed hugely with each gen - from 12C conservatism to 2nd gen with kiwi shaped lights, now to 'panda'.

[0a]

Sway said:

Design has changed hugely with each gen - from 12C conservatism to 2nd gen with kiwi shaped lights, now to 'panda'.

All the models look near identical to me, give or take different lights as you say. Fair enough if it works for them!

[Maldini35]

2manycars said:

I think the last few comments on here are all echoing the same thoughts, that McLaren don’t really make exciting cars anymore. They’ve kind of slipped into the Porsche territory of just rehashed and updated models. Shame really.

Stop being silly

Perhaps not your cup of tea but Senna, Speedtail, 600LT, 675LT, 720S aren’t really boring are they?
In fact the reviews of the journalists who’ve driven them have even been quite positive.

[2manycars]

Sway said:

Except they're not the same bits at all.

Tub has changed a few times. They have two core tub architectures (monocell and monocage) and each is on it's 2nd or 3rd generation.

Engine has changed massively between models - just because the format and capacity have remained static don't think it's just different states of tune.

Design of interior has followed the same core style - but certainly no more so than any other manufacturer, Ferrari included.

Design has changed hugely with each gen - from 12C conservatism to 2nd gen with kiwi shaped lights, now to 'panda'.

Ok maybe so but these are just the overall looks, an update of the lights or a slight tweak in the tub structure doesn’t constitute for a whole new car, it’s just the next upgraded generation of what is still usually the same car underneath. And the performance hasn’t massively changed since the 12c, that’s probably down to the factor that they broke the mould with that model though.
Don’t get me wrong, the McLarens are good but they just lack that bit of soul that a Ferrari has. The Macs drive with exaggerated precision but there’s something lacking with the engine factor, especially when it comes to the noise.

[Maldini35]

2manycars said:

Ok maybe so but these are just the overall looks, an update of the lights or a slight tweak in the tub structure doesn’t constitute for a whole new car, it’s just the next upgraded generation of what is still usually the same car underneath. And the performance hasn’t massively changed since the 12c, that’s probably down to the factor that they broke the mould with that model though.
Don’t get me wrong, the McLarens are good but they just lack that bit of soul that a Ferrari has. The Macs drive with exaggerated precision but there’s something lacking with the engine factor, especially when it comes to the noise.

Try driving one - after all, that’s what they’re for.

[2manycars]

Maldini35 said:

Stop being silly

Perhaps not your cup of tea but Senna, Speedtail, 600LT, 675LT, 720S aren’t really boring are they?
I fact the reviews of the journalists who’ve driven them have even been quite positive.

I’m not being silly as I own a Senna, 675lt and a 650s so I am quite familiar with the brand. Remember that journos are only with these cars for a small amount of time and usually have nothing but positive things to say about them. I cancelled my 600lt as it doesn’t look anything special for the price and I knew they’d bomb in price once the spider came out, and I cancelled my 720s order as I prefer my 675lt.

[2manycars]

Maldini35 said:

Try driving one - after all, that’s what they’re for.

I do drive them.

https://youtu.be/0Q8sMhVr94M

[Sway]

2manycars said:

Sway said:

Except they're not the same bits at all.

Tub has changed a few times. They have two core tub architectures (monocell and monocage) and each is on it's 2nd or 3rd generation.

Engine has changed massively between models - just because the format and capacity have remained static don't think it's just different states of tune.

Design of interior has followed the same core style - but certainly no more so than any other manufacturer, Ferrari included.

Design has changed hugely with each gen - from 12C conservatism to 2nd gen with kiwi shaped lights, now to 'panda'.

Ok maybe so but these are just the overall looks, an update of the lights or a slight tweak in the tub structure doesn’t constitute for a whole new car, it’s just the next upgraded generation of what is still usually the same car underneath. And the performance hasn’t massively changed since the 12c, that’s probably down to the factor that they broke the mould with that model though.
Don’t get me wrong, the McLarens are good but they just lack that bit of soul that a Ferrari has. The Macs drive with exaggerated precision but there’s something lacking with the engine factor, especially when it comes to the noise.

There are some big tweaks! It's a pretty big engineering deal to not have ARBs on the Super series upwards cars...

Their biggest problems seem to be threefold:

That they decided they would stick to one recipe - the two seat, mid engined sports car. No front engined GTs, 2+2, etc. Just the same "type" at differing price points with differing core focus.

The next I can't blame them for really - the turbo v8 with attendent poor (in context) soundtrack is a function of regs and the fact they can't play on "Latin flair" as an excuse for an "inefficient" level of noise.

Lastly, one I can understand, but do feel sorry for them over - that they've made cars 'so good' at driving that they come across as 'soulless'.

[Maldini35]

2manycars said:

I do drive them.

https://youtu.be/0Q8sMhVr94M

And you find them boring?

Edited by Maldini35 on Tuesday 7th May 22:10

[2manycars]

Maldini35 said:

And you find them boring?

Edited by Maldini35 on Tuesday 7th May 22:10

Extremely, especially when I compare them to my other ‘fun’ cars like my LFA, CGT, F12TDF, etc. Well for the price they are anyway.
As someone above pointed out, exactly what I said in my video, they’re soulless. Even the Senna is a bit ‘meh’ after a few laps. And for anyone thinking I’m not driving them properly, I’ve done many summers at Fiorano and I live close by Oulton Park so I can handle a race track in a Supercar no problem.
I think you’d have as much fun in a well balanced and tuned E46 M3.

Edited by 2manycars on Tuesday 7th May 22:39

[Maldini35]

2manycars said:

Extremely, especially when I compare them to my other ‘fun’ cars like my LFA, CGT, F12TDF, etc.
As someone above pointed out, exactly what I said in my video, they’re soulless. Even the Senna is a bit ‘meh’ after a few laps. And for anyone thinking I’m not driving them properly, I’ve done many summers at Fiorano and I live close by Oulton Park so I can handle a race track in a Supercar no problem.
I think you’d have as much fun in a well balanced and tuned E46 M3.

I happen to agree re the E46 M3 but it does beg the question why on earth did you buy x3 McLarens if you find them dull?

Everyone’s different but I find the more I live with a car the more its soul is revealed.
Some cars grab you instantly with an incredible engine note others take longer to work their way into your affections. I love Lotuses but their engines never really struck me as exciting. Instead they got under my skin over months/years of use - trackdays, European tours, school runs and commuting. The pin sharp steering, beautifully balanced chassis and perfect damping all made up for the modest engine. These characteristics combined with the memories of all the drives, not just the big road trips, sometimes just the drive home after a late night at the office, created a lasting bond.

Perhaps as your username says, you have too many cars to really bond with them all?

I don’t own a Senna but I have done a few laps in one and ‘meh’ is not what I felt. Not even close.

Horses for courses I guess.

Edited by Maldini35 on Tuesday 7th May 23:19