RE: PH Fleet: BMW E90 M3
Discussion
I toyed with the idea of getting one of these. I think they make a lot of sense in saloon form. I had the convertible version and yes it was a touch slower and more ponderous than you'd want but it was stiff enough roof up and certainly fast enough for UK roads with that epic noise at high revs.
I was always worried about my previous 996 Porsche potential engine woes but was never that concerned about the S65, perhaps I should have been more worried but once it was warm I always tried to find opportunities to use the revs as much as possible - that was the main reason I bought it!
Enjoy it - it has plenty more character than most modern saloons at the same price point.
I was always worried about my previous 996 Porsche potential engine woes but was never that concerned about the S65, perhaps I should have been more worried but once it was warm I always tried to find opportunities to use the revs as much as possible - that was the main reason I bought it!
Enjoy it - it has plenty more character than most modern saloons at the same price point.
Well done on the m3 from another owner
I think these get a bad rap on the v8 as the knockers all think of the old American v8 with loads of midrange and no top end. The engine warmed up and at full noise is a delight.
I must admit the dct is the best choice as slapping through the paddles really makes fast progress. The comp pack is the choice I made and I don’t regret it. Awesome car and the ast Bmw with soul
I think these get a bad rap on the v8 as the knockers all think of the old American v8 with loads of midrange and no top end. The engine warmed up and at full noise is a delight.
I must admit the dct is the best choice as slapping through the paddles really makes fast progress. The comp pack is the choice I made and I don’t regret it. Awesome car and the ast Bmw with soul
cati said:
I think these get a bad rap on the v8 as the knockers all think of the old American v8 with loads of midrange and no top end.
I will admit that it didn't behave in the way that I expected a V8 to behave...and I think you make a really good point in fairness. It behaves how I'd imagine a V8 Honda VTEC engine would behave if they ever made one. I much preferred the V8 4.8 engine in my X5 4.8iS and I liked how torquey and gutsy that felt in comparison. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
I would take the oil test results with a pinch of salt. You've wasted your money. An E60 M5 which uses the same bearings has just failed and that showed no signs of problems / copper in the oil. It doesn't matter whether the car was warmed up before being thrashed or not. A bearing will fail at some point.
cerb4.5lee said:
The engine is special in isolation and I think it was great that the V8 revved to 8400rpm and on its top end(6000rpm plus)it was really special. The power delivery/torque versus the kerbweight made it feel really flat at times though which spoilt the overall experience for me.
I would have liked that engine in a much lighter car though for sure and that could be a lovely recipe I reckon. The engine seemed to come and go very quickly with BMW only using it in the E9x M3...especially when you consider what BMW have done with the M4's engine(used it in the M2/X3M/X4M).
I’ve not owned one, but have driven my uncles a fair bit and really really liked it. If I was braver and could cope with 20mpg, I’d have one.I would have liked that engine in a much lighter car though for sure and that could be a lovely recipe I reckon. The engine seemed to come and go very quickly with BMW only using it in the E9x M3...especially when you consider what BMW have done with the M4's engine(used it in the M2/X3M/X4M).
He’s gad a few RS cars and it was interesting how different the M3 felt; you could literally just hop into the RS4 and RS6 and drive them really really fast. The M3 felt more alive to me and took more time to be comfortable with. My uncle has always been an Audi guy, but he said he was surprised with the M3 and said how much it was a grower, with personality, depths etc that you discover the longer you have it. The DCT box in his adds to the drama for me too.
TheAngryDog said:
I would take the oil test results with a pinch of salt. You've wasted your money. An E60 M5 which uses the same bearings has just failed and that showed no signs of problems / copper in the oil. It doesn't matter whether the car was warmed up before being thrashed or not. A bearing will fail at some point.
Exactly. Seems crazy not to do the rod bearings - I wouldn't be comfortable driving one of these knowing there is a grenade under the bonnet. Was at my BMW specialist yesterday and an M5 was there having an engine rebuild...ouch.
SidewaysSi said:
TheAngryDog said:
I would take the oil test results with a pinch of salt. You've wasted your money. An E60 M5 which uses the same bearings has just failed and that showed no signs of problems / copper in the oil. It doesn't matter whether the car was warmed up before being thrashed or not. A bearing will fail at some point.
Exactly. Seems crazy not to do the rod bearings - I wouldn't be comfortable driving one of these knowing there is a grenade under the bonnet. Was at my BMW specialist yesterday and an M5 was there having an engine rebuild...ouch.
The whole grenade thing is way over exaggerated and subject to usual internet chinese whispers
Court_S said:
I’ve not owned one, but have driven my uncles a fair bit and really really liked it. If I was braver and could cope with 20mpg, I’d have one.
He’s gad a few RS cars and it was interesting how different the M3 felt; you could literally just hop into the RS4 and RS6 and drive them really really fast. The M3 felt more alive to me and took more time to be comfortable with. My uncle has always been an Audi guy, but he said he was surprised with the M3 and said how much it was a grower, with personality, depths etc that you discover the longer you have it. The DCT box in his adds to the drama for me too.
My brother in law still loves his DCT E93 M3 and he has had that 7 years this year, but he only uses it occasionally which I think always helps to keep a car feeling special. I made the wrong mistake of having mine as my daily because it just ended up feeling ordinary like my old 330d(only less torquey! He’s gad a few RS cars and it was interesting how different the M3 felt; you could literally just hop into the RS4 and RS6 and drive them really really fast. The M3 felt more alive to me and took more time to be comfortable with. My uncle has always been an Audi guy, but he said he was surprised with the M3 and said how much it was a grower, with personality, depths etc that you discover the longer you have it. The DCT box in his adds to the drama for me too.
) for most of the time. The M3 didn't suit my commute either with very little opportunity to open it up(I just got frustrated having 400bhp and not being able to use it and it still only offered 17/18mpg), but on the open clear back roads near me when I just drove it for fun it was fantastic then.
When I had mine back in 2013 I never realised how unreliable the engine was, but I only did 10k miles in mine though luckily and it only had 31k miles on it when I got it. I think it is a shame that these are now such a risky purchase but I'm pleased that I ticked the box and had one though...even if it did make me realise how much I prefer a Turbo engine instead.
cerb4.5lee said:
I will admit that it didn't behave in the way that I expected a V8 to behave...and I think you make a really good point in fairness. It behaves how I'd imagine a V8 Honda VTEC engine would behave if they ever made one.
I much preferred the V8 4.8 engine in my X5 4.8iS and I liked how torquey and gutsy that felt in comparison. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
That’s exactly my point, the right v8 for the right car. I had the 4.4. V8 Mid range awesome, top end flat. You keep banging the dct on the shift and the car stays in the 6k to 9k range and it moves. The car revs frikn quickly hence why dct is a very good option. Bang bang bang ... I think folks buy the manual thinking v8, get a rev machine and can’t change quickly enough and thhen think p.o.s. This is a hard charging rev machine with 4.4 litres of rammstein intensity. Less general lee and much more general Rommel I much preferred the V8 4.8 engine in my X5 4.8iS and I liked how torquey and gutsy that felt in comparison. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
Px'd my e92 yesterday. It was a short term, love / hate relationship.
They might not have a traditional V8 delivery, and in the 'Normal' throttle mapping, they do need quite a shove on the loud pedal to get moving - but the S65 really is an exceptional engine.
My gripes were mostly around high seating position, the manual gearchange and overall reliability. Every time I drove it, something started playing up. Calipers, battery failure, alternator, flywheel, sensors galore, purge valve etc etc. This was on a low miles 08 with FBMWSH. It spent about 60% of the time I owned it having warranty work and there was strong evidence there was more on the horizon. It stopped being my fun toy and became a bit of an albatross.
I'll miss the times it was good, but I won't be tempted into another.
They might not have a traditional V8 delivery, and in the 'Normal' throttle mapping, they do need quite a shove on the loud pedal to get moving - but the S65 really is an exceptional engine.
My gripes were mostly around high seating position, the manual gearchange and overall reliability. Every time I drove it, something started playing up. Calipers, battery failure, alternator, flywheel, sensors galore, purge valve etc etc. This was on a low miles 08 with FBMWSH. It spent about 60% of the time I owned it having warranty work and there was strong evidence there was more on the horizon. It stopped being my fun toy and became a bit of an albatross.
I'll miss the times it was good, but I won't be tempted into another.
KPB1973 said:
Px'd my e92 yesterday. It was a short term, love / hate relationship.
They might not have a traditional V8 delivery, and in the 'Normal' throttle mapping, they do need quite a shove on the loud pedal to get moving - but the S65 really is an exceptional engine.
My gripes were mostly around high seating position, the manual gearchange and overall reliability. Every time I drove it, something started playing up. Calipers, battery failure, alternator, flywheel, sensors galore, purge valve etc etc. This was on a low miles 08 with FBMWSH. It spent about 60% of the time I owned it having warranty work and there was strong evidence there was more on the horizon. It stopped being my fun toy and became a bit of an albatross.
I'll miss the times it was good, but I won't be tempted into another.
GRIMThey might not have a traditional V8 delivery, and in the 'Normal' throttle mapping, they do need quite a shove on the loud pedal to get moving - but the S65 really is an exceptional engine.
My gripes were mostly around high seating position, the manual gearchange and overall reliability. Every time I drove it, something started playing up. Calipers, battery failure, alternator, flywheel, sensors galore, purge valve etc etc. This was on a low miles 08 with FBMWSH. It spent about 60% of the time I owned it having warranty work and there was strong evidence there was more on the horizon. It stopped being my fun toy and became a bit of an albatross.
I'll miss the times it was good, but I won't be tempted into another.
lord trumpton said:
SidewaysSi said:
TheAngryDog said:
I would take the oil test results with a pinch of salt. You've wasted your money. An E60 M5 which uses the same bearings has just failed and that showed no signs of problems / copper in the oil. It doesn't matter whether the car was warmed up before being thrashed or not. A bearing will fail at some point.
Exactly. Seems crazy not to do the rod bearings - I wouldn't be comfortable driving one of these knowing there is a grenade under the bonnet. Was at my BMW specialist yesterday and an M5 was there having an engine rebuild...ouch.
The whole grenade thing is way over exaggerated and subject to usual internet chinese whispers
I must say, I think it's hilarious all of the threads I have read about people worrying about buying a Giulia QF vs the safe choice of an m3. By the sounds of things these are a pretty mechanically flawed vehicle. Plenty of problems with the e46 too fro. What I recall. Pity, I was looking at these just this week. Probably will avoid now as the tax on post 2008 ones here is too much and the earlier ones seem to be the dodgiest and are pretty old by now.
With those tight rod bearing clearances and consequently lubrication issues you may want to give Ceratec a go. I can't praise the stuff highly enough - have it in all my cars (non M sadly). It is especially useful at cold starts when most wear takes place. In my experience all my cars rev better with less effort and there is a noticeable reduction in engine breaking due to lower internal friction.
After having experienced that I added it into the quite noisy and notchy manual gearbox of my 01 BMW 525i - the noise at idle had become so annoying I was looking at swapping it for another one so nothing to lose... Now (for the past two years since having added it) near silent and notchines disappeared altogether. I enjoy driving the car so much more just because the gear changes are such a pleasure - I downshift much more often than I used to. Here I added it to the tune of 8% instead of the usual 6% of the filling capacity - as I was trying to address an existing bearing issue.
I also have it in the rear diff for longevity reasons - but it should NOT go into an M car's limited slip diff as it will turn it into a regular limitless slip diff. Same with automatic transmissions - they require friction in order to change gears so you do not want Ceratec in there.
I trust you will do your research first - just wanted to share my enthusiasm. And no I have no business association with Liqui Moly whatsoever.
After having experienced that I added it into the quite noisy and notchy manual gearbox of my 01 BMW 525i - the noise at idle had become so annoying I was looking at swapping it for another one so nothing to lose... Now (for the past two years since having added it) near silent and notchines disappeared altogether. I enjoy driving the car so much more just because the gear changes are such a pleasure - I downshift much more often than I used to. Here I added it to the tune of 8% instead of the usual 6% of the filling capacity - as I was trying to address an existing bearing issue.
I also have it in the rear diff for longevity reasons - but it should NOT go into an M car's limited slip diff as it will turn it into a regular limitless slip diff. Same with automatic transmissions - they require friction in order to change gears so you do not want Ceratec in there.
I trust you will do your research first - just wanted to share my enthusiasm. And no I have no business association with Liqui Moly whatsoever.
Looking forward to your updates on living with this!
Your perfect spec very close to mine (I’d add 18” wheels to the list). Came very close to buying one 2 years ago but in the end a combination of concerns over needing to do considerable business mileage and an overall lack of bravery, I bottled it and bought a 2 year old F31 330d.
It’s a good car but not a patch on the driving experience the M3 would have been.
Your perfect spec very close to mine (I’d add 18” wheels to the list). Came very close to buying one 2 years ago but in the end a combination of concerns over needing to do considerable business mileage and an overall lack of bravery, I bottled it and bought a 2 year old F31 330d.
It’s a good car but not a patch on the driving experience the M3 would have been.
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