RE: Why Lotus won't be building an SUV - yet
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
yonex said:
It’s easy. Make the Esprit, stop messing around with endless SE’s and keep an eye on EV.
They already have their niche, it just needs to be realised. No doubt needs investment, which will be the undoing.
Lotus has just sat there like gormless numnuts doing absolutely nothing with the global gift horse that they should have been the total masters of. Corporate tool after corporate tool shovelled in by piss poor owners has been much of the brand’s nemesis. They already have their niche, it just needs to be realised. No doubt needs investment, which will be the undoing.
And YES make an Esprit already!
Although Volvo doesn't have a 3.5 litre V6, parent company Geely does. Maybe Lotus could use that as a base, bolt on the supercharger and work their tuning/emissions magic on it for the new Evora sized car? It would effectively be a like-for-like swap with the Toyota V6. Maybe not worth the bother though in the short/medium term?
Some random thoughts, and please forgive me for not crediting your comments.
I'm glad they've knocked the SUV on the head for now. As somebody commented though, this is probably more to do with Geely taking it;s foot of the debt pedal that any marketing insight. China is slowing and a new SUV would cost a fortune to develop - just at the time that the intended market probably shrinks. I think Lotus may have found themselves being bought by a cash-spending owner just as the flow dries up a bit.
Volvo 2L 4 Cylinder turbo engine producing 400bhp-ish? Why not, McLaren have a 4L twin turbo that produces very nearly 800bhp.
I personally disagree with the new boss about making the cars more accessible. My wife runs a Boxster S, all day every day. She's not interested in trying to do that in a Lotus. We're considering getting a Lotus but it won't replace the Porsche. I read something recently that the boss of Alpine said (I paraphrase); "Don't try and beat Porsche on their terms, work out what you do differently and do it better than they can". That might be what the new top guy at Lotus meant, but it's not what I heard. I don't want carpets in a Lotus, I don't want power hoods, and deep leather dashboards with soft touch plastics, and I don't want any sodding infotainment systems. But a little easier to get in and out of would be nice, and getting their stitching in the interior in a straight line would be good.
I think they're also flogging a dead-horse with the "add lightness" thing. You and I get it, but most people simply don't. They need to concentrate on selling them on their ride and handling. Average guy wouldn't have a clue about what any car weights.
Will every Volvo dealership soon be offering Lotus as well? Their dealer network is still for the enthusiast owner. Again, I'm happy, but most people simply wouldn't put up with it.
I wish them well.
I'm glad they've knocked the SUV on the head for now. As somebody commented though, this is probably more to do with Geely taking it;s foot of the debt pedal that any marketing insight. China is slowing and a new SUV would cost a fortune to develop - just at the time that the intended market probably shrinks. I think Lotus may have found themselves being bought by a cash-spending owner just as the flow dries up a bit.
Volvo 2L 4 Cylinder turbo engine producing 400bhp-ish? Why not, McLaren have a 4L twin turbo that produces very nearly 800bhp.
I personally disagree with the new boss about making the cars more accessible. My wife runs a Boxster S, all day every day. She's not interested in trying to do that in a Lotus. We're considering getting a Lotus but it won't replace the Porsche. I read something recently that the boss of Alpine said (I paraphrase); "Don't try and beat Porsche on their terms, work out what you do differently and do it better than they can". That might be what the new top guy at Lotus meant, but it's not what I heard. I don't want carpets in a Lotus, I don't want power hoods, and deep leather dashboards with soft touch plastics, and I don't want any sodding infotainment systems. But a little easier to get in and out of would be nice, and getting their stitching in the interior in a straight line would be good.
I think they're also flogging a dead-horse with the "add lightness" thing. You and I get it, but most people simply don't. They need to concentrate on selling them on their ride and handling. Average guy wouldn't have a clue about what any car weights.
Will every Volvo dealership soon be offering Lotus as well? Their dealer network is still for the enthusiast owner. Again, I'm happy, but most people simply wouldn't put up with it.
I wish them well.
Forget the Suv ,Lotus need to bring back the passion the brand once had,get the factory and exhibition up and running so people can see the heritage behind these cars if Morgan can do it why can't Lotus...Make something radical and exciting ,something we can be proud of.I had a 911 and nobody came down my drive to have a look are ask of their children could have a photograph,they do when I have my Lotus Gte out ..
Personally i think Geely need to get people excited in the brand again.
Aside from building and improving cars i also think Geely should consider
1. A hypercar is a great way to gain a lot of publicity. The most recent car companies were built soley around hyper cars (mclaren).
2. Geely should consider funding a Movie/TV series about the story of Colin Chapman and Jim Clark. Would be great publicity for Lotus and one of the most interesting stories in motorsport.
3. A return to racing in some form, be it LM or GT2. EV
Aside from building and improving cars i also think Geely should consider
1. A hypercar is a great way to gain a lot of publicity. The most recent car companies were built soley around hyper cars (mclaren).
2. Geely should consider funding a Movie/TV series about the story of Colin Chapman and Jim Clark. Would be great publicity for Lotus and one of the most interesting stories in motorsport.
3. A return to racing in some form, be it LM or GT2. EV
lotuslover69 said:
Personally i think Geely need to get people excited in the brand again.
Aside from building and improving cars i also think Geely should consider
1. A hypercar is a great way to gain a lot of publicity. The most recent car companies were built soley around hyper cars (mclaren).
2. Geely should consider funding a Movie/TV series about the story of Colin Chapman and Jim Clark. Would be great publicity for Lotus and one of the most interesting stories in motorsport.
3. A return to racing in some form, be it LM or GT2. EV
I believe Geely has considered 1. Yours for £2m.Aside from building and improving cars i also think Geely should consider
1. A hypercar is a great way to gain a lot of publicity. The most recent car companies were built soley around hyper cars (mclaren).
2. Geely should consider funding a Movie/TV series about the story of Colin Chapman and Jim Clark. Would be great publicity for Lotus and one of the most interesting stories in motorsport.
3. A return to racing in some form, be it LM or GT2. EV
Good it's about time Lotus got a better handle on the market because let's face it they missed a trick by dumping the original Elan and letting Mazda produce a front engined basic sports car unopposed.
During the Bahar period (all fluff no substance era driven by the wrong man) they came up with some lovely looking cars that many Lotus fans like myself had a niggling doubt that this is too good to be true.
The later Toyota engines were at least reliable and did much to improve the Lotus image, and there are better/decent local dealerships like the one in Hedge End. A step up from the rather second rate Lotus dealers of the past that did nothing for the Lotus image in the past.
Personally I don't think there will be a place for a new Esprit because that market that the Esprit would be sold in is now taken up by some very big names and as far as I know no reputation of sending out cars from the factory with speedo's 20 degrees out of true etc.
Here is my last Esprit which I think will be the last of them and a link to a few others from our local Lotus Anorak group.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjmLsn6omDc&fea...
During the Bahar period (all fluff no substance era driven by the wrong man) they came up with some lovely looking cars that many Lotus fans like myself had a niggling doubt that this is too good to be true.
The later Toyota engines were at least reliable and did much to improve the Lotus image, and there are better/decent local dealerships like the one in Hedge End. A step up from the rather second rate Lotus dealers of the past that did nothing for the Lotus image in the past.
Personally I don't think there will be a place for a new Esprit because that market that the Esprit would be sold in is now taken up by some very big names and as far as I know no reputation of sending out cars from the factory with speedo's 20 degrees out of true etc.
Here is my last Esprit which I think will be the last of them and a link to a few others from our local Lotus Anorak group.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjmLsn6omDc&fea...
Edited by BIRMA on Wednesday 20th March 08:24
Edited by BIRMA on Wednesday 20th March 08:25
Edited by BIRMA on Wednesday 20th March 08:26
ESOG said:
deanarnett said:
I think most Lotus fans have been waiting years and years to just hear two words - “new Esprit!”
I know I sure have. Wouldn't it be great if Lotus has been secretly developing a new Esprit this whole time and announce it this summer.Have owned 8 lotus cars to date including 2 x Evora and 3 x V6 Exige. Love the cars and chose initial Evora over a Cayman at the time, even though I had owned a couple of 911’s previously.
However after owning one of the new Alpine A110’s earlier this year, Lotus are missing a trick in this space. I loved the drive of the car but not the looks. That car with lotus body shell would have been perfection.
Fingers crossed for future models
However after owning one of the new Alpine A110’s earlier this year, Lotus are missing a trick in this space. I loved the drive of the car but not the looks. That car with lotus body shell would have been perfection.
Fingers crossed for future models
Come on Lotus ,how many times do your loyal owners have to tell you ,to build a supercar and put lotus up we're it belongs .So many small individual companies are managing to build fantastic looking cars without the heritage and knowledge you have .What are all these so called talented people doing all day? If Colin was looking down he would be outraged at what has become of Lotus....
lotuslover69 said:
this is true, indeed this prototype was built using the APX chassis design that the evora uses.
https://www.carbodydesign.com/media/2006/02/Lotus-...
shttps://www.carbodydesign.com/media/2006/02/Lotus-...
tinghell that is hideous 
BIRMA said:
In an ideal world I'd like to see them use the latest hot V V8 from the AMG C63s in a new car now that would get some attention. After all Pagani still buy the AMG V12 to put in their cars.
Would be nice but the big engine thing was really just a tiny blip in the history of Lotus. They are famous for delivering the performance of a big engines car by using a small engine and that history fits amazingly with today’s narrative of downsizing engines in the face of only to ever increase emission restrictions. They need to tap the affluent urban market to significantly increase global sales and I suspect that means emulating something more like the BMW i8 drivetrain than a lovely big V8.
DonkeyApple said:
BIRMA said:
In an ideal world I'd like to see them use the latest hot V V8 from the AMG C63s in a new car now that would get some attention. After all Pagani still buy the AMG V12 to put in their cars.
Would be nice but the big engine thing was really just a tiny blip in the history of Lotus. They are famous for delivering the performance of a big engines car by using a small engine and that history fits amazingly with today’s narrative of downsizing engines in the face of only to ever increase emission restrictions. They need to tap the affluent urban market to significantly increase global sales and I suspect that means emulating something more like the BMW i8 drivetrain than a lovely big V8.
I still have the official poster of the Bahar Esprit on my garage wall to remind me as to what could be achieved.
BIRMA said:
DonkeyApple said:
BIRMA said:
In an ideal world I'd like to see them use the latest hot V V8 from the AMG C63s in a new car now that would get some attention. After all Pagani still buy the AMG V12 to put in their cars.
Would be nice but the big engine thing was really just a tiny blip in the history of Lotus. They are famous for delivering the performance of a big engines car by using a small engine and that history fits amazingly with today’s narrative of downsizing engines in the face of only to ever increase emission restrictions. They need to tap the affluent urban market to significantly increase global sales and I suspect that means emulating something more like the BMW i8 drivetrain than a lovely big V8.
I still have the official poster of the Bahar Esprit on my garage wall to remind me as to what could be achieved.
CABC said:
BIRMA said:
DonkeyApple said:
BIRMA said:
In an ideal world I'd like to see them use the latest hot V V8 from the AMG C63s in a new car now that would get some attention. After all Pagani still buy the AMG V12 to put in their cars.
Would be nice but the big engine thing was really just a tiny blip in the history of Lotus. They are famous for delivering the performance of a big engines car by using a small engine and that history fits amazingly with today’s narrative of downsizing engines in the face of only to ever increase emission restrictions. They need to tap the affluent urban market to significantly increase global sales and I suspect that means emulating something more like the BMW i8 drivetrain than a lovely big V8.
I still have the official poster of the Bahar Esprit on my garage wall to remind me as to what could be achieved.
Plus they would have to still improve their quality control. The other day one of my fellow Lotus Anoraks turned up at our monthly gathering in a demo 400 series Evora. It's a fabulous looking/handling car but two of the side reflectors were missing, I'm sure it didn't come out the factory like that so they must have fallen off. We of course just laughed and said 'typical Lotus' but I don't think potential buyers would be so kind.
I think the key aspect that Lotus must cater to is that the largest number of wealthy people, the single biggest group of high end consumers, almost all live in or around cities that have these ever tightening emission controls that require hybridisation to bypass easily, combined with an ever growing demand from this type of consumer for a high end product to enable them to justify their purchase socially. And frankly if there is one brand out there that should be able to achieve this with bells on it is Lotus, whose ‘add lightness’ mantra is at the very heart of adding ‘greenness’.
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