RE: New Porsche Taycan details teased
Discussion
RobDickinson said:
ntiz said:
A car that panels line up, door cards don’t fall off, handles don’t fail and infotainment system doesn’t crash every couple of days?
Just off the top of my head.
My secretary has a Kia outside. It’s better built than my Tesla. I would argue the first step to luxury is putting it together properly preferably out of high quality materials.
Literally every 996 outside of the turbo will lunch its engine, BMW has just had yet another recall over 1.6m cars at fire risk etc.. Lol. Just off the top of my head.
My secretary has a Kia outside. It’s better built than my Tesla. I would argue the first step to luxury is putting it together properly preferably out of high quality materials.
RobDickinson said:
Literally every 996 outside of the turbo will lunch its engine, BMW has just had yet another recall over 1.6m cars at fire risk etc.. Lol.
My 996 is 18 years old next week. How many EV's do you think you'd get through in that same time frame? I'm guessing more than new engines for my 996?jason61c said:
RobDickinson said:
Please give us a concrete definition of luxury car.
A 60k car thats got the build quality of a 100k car.A 20k car thats got the build quality of a 20k car.
A 100k car thats got the build quality of a 100k car.
Not a 50-100k car thats got the build quality of a 20k car.
Some German cars ( some Audi for example ) have very high "perceived" build quality - they spend the money on switches and soft touch materials. But the deep down engineering quality ( the oily bits ) can be terrible. Some Audi models have terrible records of simply badly engineered gearboxes, coil packs, transmissions etc etc.
One of the cars in my family is an old Honda CRV. Bought new 185000 miles ago, it still has its original clutch and every single item of the car works as it did when it was new. Yet the interior "quality" feels horrible compared to a VW - which would have been much less reliable.
Tesla may have the interior feel of a Mondeo, but their engineering is such that they are so reliable, they are phasing out the need to have a regular service simply because there is nothing to do. Just check the brakes. Nothing else needed. For a new type of mass made car, the fact that Tesla are so reliable is pretty amazing. There is a huge fleet of Tesla TAXI in Amsterdam serving the airport - they have HUGE miles on them now with very few problems.
So what do you mean by "build quality"? Build quality is NOT in my opinion, having a nice feeling switch or soft surface in a car.
Edited by toppstuff on Friday 29th March 11:53
not sure as how much of an advantage I see less servicing - I do like to get my cars' suspension, brakes etc checked at least annually. So even if it does not need servicing, I'll still need to get that done (and if it is in the shop, then if they have to do a little more - like change oil etc - is not going to substantially increase the time without a car).
Do appreciate less stuff that can break is clearly a good thing though. Would be interesting how much it does cost though once the components are 10 years plus old and potentially need replacing - I assume the batteries etc won't work in perpetuity.
Do appreciate less stuff that can break is clearly a good thing though. Would be interesting how much it does cost though once the components are 10 years plus old and potentially need replacing - I assume the batteries etc won't work in perpetuity.
RobDickinson said:
ntiz said:
A car that panels line up, door cards don’t fall off, handles don’t fail and infotainment system doesn’t crash every couple of days?
Just off the top of my head.
My secretary has a Kia outside. It’s better built than my Tesla. I would argue the first step to luxury is putting it together properly preferably out of high quality materials.
Literally every 996 outside of the turbo will lunch its engine, BMW has just had yet another recall over 1.6m cars at fire risk etc.. Lol. Just off the top of my head.
My secretary has a Kia outside. It’s better built than my Tesla. I would argue the first step to luxury is putting it together properly preferably out of high quality materials.
There engineering isn’t great either mine has just had new suspensions arms all round at 50k miles. My dad rear suspension failed at 30k miles. My battery had to be sent back to the factory after 8 months. My Dads is on it’s 3rd normal car battery.
You can add brake problems to that list.
Oh and if you lease them they insist on annual servicing at a minor 650 quid a go and Tesla service so great it will take about a week to complete after waiting 2 months for them to find the time to do it. I booked a service in January just had it done 2 weeks ago.
I think the wider point is that VAG made 11 million cars last year some of them will have problems no doubt. The issue is that every Tesla built has problems so it’s not a mistake it’s general problem in there manufacturing and attitude to quality.
You can add brake problems to that list.
Oh and if you lease them they insist on annual servicing at a minor 650 quid a go and Tesla service so great it will take about a week to complete after waiting 2 months for them to find the time to do it. I booked a service in January just had it done 2 weeks ago.
I think the wider point is that VAG made 11 million cars last year some of them will have problems no doubt. The issue is that every Tesla built has problems so it’s not a mistake it’s general problem in there manufacturing and attitude to quality.
Edited by ntiz on Friday 29th March 15:54
ntiz said:
I thought the roadster didn’t have any battery details yet? Last I heard Elon had admitted the battery tech doesn’t actually exist yet to build it. Lots of rumour from fanboys but no concrete evidence? On usual Tesla time won’t be seeing it until 2025 if we are lucky. Can’t see new Model S before then either. I have to by cynical about the 200 kw battery because there has been a 15kw rise in captivity since the First Tesla all of a sudden it is going to double in 2-3 years sounds like bold claim no?
Personally I would be very cynical of anyone who claims they take there model 3 on track. But would be very happy to hear they solved the problem if they have been. Unfortunately I have heard a lot of big claims from owners over the years that turn out to be less than truthful.
The Model S went from 85 - 100KWh in 4 years, it has been 3 years since a battery update.Personally I would be very cynical of anyone who claims they take there model 3 on track. But would be very happy to hear they solved the problem if they have been. Unfortunately I have heard a lot of big claims from owners over the years that turn out to be less than truthful.
The Model 3 uses a different cell with a higher energy density, JB Strauble claims a 30% energy density improvement between Model 3 and S.
However you are making the incorrect assumption that the Roadster needs radically improved battery cell technology.
Instead based on the pre production cars thick floor pans they appear to have just fitted a bigger battery.
The car will probably come out in the region of 1800kg but that's not much heavier than a Nissan GTR.
As for track days, Google is your friend for track day reports plus there are plenty of journalists who have taken a Model 3 on a track.
General consensus is that the car will do around 4 hot laps of a typical track before anything goes over temperature and when it does the performance degrades gracefully rather than going into a limp home mode.
General advice on tracking a regular road car is to only do 4-5 laps before a cool down lap anyway.
RobDickinson said:
Literally every 996 outside of the turbo will lunch its engine, BMW has just had yet another recall over 1.6m cars at fire risk etc.. Lol.
I popped outside and my 996.1 engine isn't at lunch yet. As I understand it they're relatively reliable and long lasting, vs the M97 or 3.6 M96, but maybe you "literally" know best?griffdude said:
I like a sporty estate but that ‘C’ pillar looks ridiculous; needs something to break that big swathe of nothing. Apart from that, sounds appealing: Like the idea of a 2 speed box.
That’s a picture of a disguised prototype. The disguise is probably covering a window similar to the one shown on the concept.donteatpeople said:
That’s a picture of a disguised prototype. The disguise is probably covering a window similar to the one shown on the concept.
This, I am staggered by the number of people saying how ugly it is, or I hope they drop the fake exhausts in the final version etc. Do people not understand the concept of disguising a prototype?
te !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!RacerMike said:
Not entirely true. Inverters don’t like sustained high rpm as the pole switching for the stator causes it to get pretty hot. The faster you go, the faster it needs to switch poles, so good cooling is important.....and surprisingly difficult. Because the windings are so tight, it’s really hard to get the heat out of them.
Might be why they seem to be going for a multispeed gearbox? Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff