RE: Defender at the Nurburgring!
Discussion
t JLR 2l diesel so your probably right lolZX10R NIN said:
Does a Defender need to be good around the Ring?
It's probably as good a place as any to give the thing a good pasting and make sure nothing falls off.Given how much money Merc make off their utterly ridiculous G63 AMG incarnations, I can only assume JLR are keen to try to take a slice of that pie with a blacked-up, blinged-up SVR variant in due course.
300bhp/ton said:
Interesting video about the new Defender here:
https://youtu.be/Y3kK04fvDRQ
Good god... That guy represents everything that is wrong about 4x4 'anoraks'.https://youtu.be/Y3kK04fvDRQ
M
If JLR want to avoid going completely bust, they might want to tout this at their traditional customers (rural folks, farmers, workers etc.) surely?
They already make several variations of overpriced/overpowered handbag cars for wine bar cruising/Waitrose runs - this thing is supposed to be an actual off-road vehicle for people who actually do that rather than just parking it on their drive so the neighbours can see it...
They already make several variations of overpriced/overpowered handbag cars for wine bar cruising/Waitrose runs - this thing is supposed to be an actual off-road vehicle for people who actually do that rather than just parking it on their drive so the neighbours can see it...
406dogvan said:
If JLR want to avoid going completely bust, they might want to tout this at their traditional customers (rural folks, farmers, workers etc.) surely?
They already make several variations of overpriced/overpowered handbag cars for wine bar cruising/Waitrose runs - this thing is supposed to be an actual off-road vehicle for people who actually do that rather than just parking it on their drive so the neighbours can see it...
Those people are using Japanese pick ups now. And JLR can make far more money by pitching this at urban dwellers as there are loads more of them and they can’t resist a never ending cycle of pcp/lease every few years. The sheep farmer who buys a defender and runs it for 20 years is a super niche market. They already make several variations of overpriced/overpowered handbag cars for wine bar cruising/Waitrose runs - this thing is supposed to be an actual off-road vehicle for people who actually do that rather than just parking it on their drive so the neighbours can see it...
camel_landy said:
Maybe the tracks you've used...
...there are plenty of other tracks at Eastnor which can push the vehicles and drivers.
M
Yes that’s my point. The Experience track is designed for the vehicles to be able to easily navigate it on road tyres. ...there are plenty of other tracks at Eastnor which can push the vehicles and drivers.
M
But head off the Experience tracks and the terrain is a lot more challenging.
Competed at Eastnor a few years back and due there in 2023.
Jag_NE said:
406dogvan said:
If JLR want to avoid going completely bust, they might want to tout this at their traditional customers (rural folks, farmers, workers etc.) surely?
They already make several variations of overpriced/overpowered handbag cars for wine bar cruising/Waitrose runs - this thing is supposed to be an actual off-road vehicle for people who actually do that rather than just parking it on their drive so the neighbours can see it...
Those people are using Japanese pick ups now. And JLR can make far more money by pitching this at urban dwellers as there are loads more of them and they can’t resist a never ending cycle of pcp/lease every few years. The sheep farmer who buys a defender and runs it for 20 years is a super niche market. They already make several variations of overpriced/overpowered handbag cars for wine bar cruising/Waitrose runs - this thing is supposed to be an actual off-road vehicle for people who actually do that rather than just parking it on their drive so the neighbours can see it...
See also the Jag XE - the X type was never a roaring success but it had it's own market wheras the XE is blatantly "poor man's XF" (no-one ever called the X-Type a "poor mans XJ or S Type" did they?" - model distinction is worth having
Once upon a time, LR had a solid business selling Freelanders and 'regular' Defenders to 'regular' people (before Defenders became trophy trinkets) but they walked away from those people entirely and are learning you cannot live on supercharged specials alone, you need volume behind that - you need to be making cars for regular people.
406dogvan said:
It's not working tho - Discos/Velars/Sports/Full-Fats are too-pricey to sustain volume which only leaves the Evoque and whilst it sold well initially, quality issues have probably lost JLR more customers than they'll ever admit (few people would ever own 2?!)
See also the Jag XE - the X type was never a roaring success but it had it's own market wheras the XE is blatantly "poor man's XF" (no-one ever called the X-Type a "poor mans XJ or S Type" did they?" - model distinction is worth having
Once upon a time, LR had a solid business selling Freelanders and 'regular' Defenders to 'regular' people (before Defenders became trophy trinkets) but they walked away from those people entirely and are learning you cannot live on supercharged specials alone, you need volume behind that - you need to be making cars for regular people.
I remember those days too, build targets could be hit by Wednesday on a production line running at a snails pace leaving us all sat round doing f all for the rest of the week. Fast forward to today and you've got build halls running 24hrs a day at 42 p/h and still they want more. But you think theyre struggling with sustaining volume? See also the Jag XE - the X type was never a roaring success but it had it's own market wheras the XE is blatantly "poor man's XF" (no-one ever called the X-Type a "poor mans XJ or S Type" did they?" - model distinction is worth having
Once upon a time, LR had a solid business selling Freelanders and 'regular' Defenders to 'regular' people (before Defenders became trophy trinkets) but they walked away from those people entirely and are learning you cannot live on supercharged specials alone, you need volume behind that - you need to be making cars for regular people.
There's even talk of putting castle brom back onto 2 shifts as they can't cope with the current demand. (3 day week was short lived eh?)
Some of the crap posted here about JLR is unbelievable.
This is not real Defendor looks rubbish cos it might drive well as not got proper axles Land Rover dont understand there customers who all have a bobtailed Discovery rotting in their front garden I would never drive this rubbish through the Outback Jimny Jimny seporate chassis etc etc
406dogvan said:
It's not working tho - Discos/Velars/Sports/Full-Fats are too-pricey to sustain volume which only leaves the Evoque and whilst it sold well initially, quality issues have probably lost JLR more customers than they'll ever admit (few people would ever own 2?!)
See also the Jag XE - the X type was never a roaring success but it had it's own market wheras the XE is blatantly "poor man's XF" (no-one ever called the X-Type a "poor mans XJ or S Type" did they?" - model distinction is worth having
Once upon a time, LR had a solid business selling Freelanders and 'regular' Defenders to 'regular' people (before Defenders became trophy trinkets) but they walked away from those people entirely and are learning you cannot live on supercharged specials alone, you need volume behind that - you need to be making cars for regular people.
This is delusional, old man claptrap to be honest. See also the Jag XE - the X type was never a roaring success but it had it's own market wheras the XE is blatantly "poor man's XF" (no-one ever called the X-Type a "poor mans XJ or S Type" did they?" - model distinction is worth having
Once upon a time, LR had a solid business selling Freelanders and 'regular' Defenders to 'regular' people (before Defenders became trophy trinkets) but they walked away from those people entirely and are learning you cannot live on supercharged specials alone, you need volume behind that - you need to be making cars for regular people.
300bhp/ton said:
camel_landy said:
Maybe the tracks you've used...
...there are plenty of other tracks at Eastnor which can push the vehicles and drivers.
M
Yes that’s my point. The Experience track is designed for the vehicles to be able to easily navigate it on road tyres. ...there are plenty of other tracks at Eastnor which can push the vehicles and drivers.
M
But head off the Experience tracks and the terrain is a lot more challenging.
Competed at Eastnor a few years back and due there in 2023.
There is no 'Experience Track' but there are lots of tracks available. Where you end up driving is predominantly down to the 'Experience' you buy and confidence you give the instructor in your driving abilities (i.e. The instructor isn't going to take you into the 'challenging' stuff if you've not demonstrated you can control the vehicle).
FWIW - Road tyres are used on pretty much everything there, even the cars using the 'challenging' tracks.
M
Mackofthejungle said:
I don't know what to make of this still.
God knows what they're doing at the 'ring - publicity someone said... The really sad thing is if they made an agricultural car it'd sell like crazy - it's 2019, not 1950, it'd be plenty civilised enough simply because it's now, not then.
I can can 100% assure that it wouldn't sell in big numbers. They lost that market years ago to the jap double cab pick ups. God knows what they're doing at the 'ring - publicity someone said... The really sad thing is if they made an agricultural car it'd sell like crazy - it's 2019, not 1950, it'd be plenty civilised enough simply because it's now, not then.
Mackofthejungle said:
If this is a Disco Sport with a tougher chassis, higher ride height, some trick suspension and a standard Land Rover interior I just don't see why they're making it. It defeats the point for me. I sold my 90 because it was too much for a commuter car...just. A car that was basically designed 70 years ago was only just unacceptable. They didn't need to do anything spectacular, they just needed to take the original idea and transpose it to modern day. This really doesn't look like something I want.. I can only hope that it is.
General consensus is that it will be running on a shortened D5 platform. LR can't afford to build a unique platform for the new Defender. Based on the current market, I recon they will do some base models for £30k ish and rise to £60 for the bling'd versions.I have never leased a car before, but would be quite tempted if the price was right for the new Defender. I know dealers are already taking deposits.
Edited by bakerstreet on Wednesday 20th March 09:16
How many people in the UK go off-roading enough to warrant buying a specific vehicle?
Out of that incredibly niche group how many and who are the people who satisfy that need by buying a brand new, off the shelf vehicle?
Well there’s probably two little groups, those who shoot and those who keep horses. And there is many more of them than those who want to crawl through a bit of mud at 2mph all weekend and discuss the various merits of different types of hi-viz. not only are there more of them but by the very nature of their chosen hobbies they are kind of showing that they have both the means and the desire to pay premium prices.
So, should JLR focus on building used old Defenders for a few blokes who enjoy driving slowly in mud and the 8 remaining farmers in the UK or should they focus a bit more on building a product to cater for the vastly larger and less spendthrift consumer leisure market?
It’s A isn’t it. JLR needs to revert to selling next to no vehicles to people with next to no desire to spend cash. Anything else is treachery and and a betrayal of Ian Bone, the Messiah.
Out of that incredibly niche group how many and who are the people who satisfy that need by buying a brand new, off the shelf vehicle?
Well there’s probably two little groups, those who shoot and those who keep horses. And there is many more of them than those who want to crawl through a bit of mud at 2mph all weekend and discuss the various merits of different types of hi-viz. not only are there more of them but by the very nature of their chosen hobbies they are kind of showing that they have both the means and the desire to pay premium prices.
So, should JLR focus on building used old Defenders for a few blokes who enjoy driving slowly in mud and the 8 remaining farmers in the UK or should they focus a bit more on building a product to cater for the vastly larger and less spendthrift consumer leisure market?
It’s A isn’t it. JLR needs to revert to selling next to no vehicles to people with next to no desire to spend cash. Anything else is treachery and and a betrayal of Ian Bone, the Messiah.
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