RE: The Brave Pill: TVR Chimaera
Discussion
Zumbruk said:
Very few TVRs compete in the HSA Speed Hillclimb Championship.
Do you not think there might be a reason for that?Zumbruk said:
Very few TVRs compete in the HSA Speed Hillclimb Championship. Contrariwise, I've seen one take FTD at Prescott.
Competing against what? Other TVR's?Custard test, please:show us the actual result, or it never happened.
I can't imagine any sort of open event at Prescott where a Grimaera could come anywhere close to taking FTD (and that's no particular disrespect to the TVR: they will usually be running against purpose-designed wings-and-slicks single seaters. I visit Prescott a lot, and I can't recall even seeing one put up a competitive showing in its class, much less FTD.
Equus said:
CanoeSniffer said:
46.82 at Wiscombe?Woah, that's big league stuff! He'd have been mixing it with 1275cc Minis and Vauxhall Novas!
Not quite up there with the Audi A3's, but then what can you expect with only 4 litres to play with?
People who spend time analysing time sheets are generally the ones nobody wants to go to the pub with after
What the f
k are we doing this for if not for fun?Equus said:
It continually astonishes me that owners persist in making excuses for the things, when the truth is that they are simply an ill-handling, unreliable P.O.S... albeit one that looks pretty and makes a nice noise.
Unreliable P.O.S.? Obviously everyone's ownership experience is different, but for balance, I'll just leave this here...Edited by Equus on Saturday 23 March 18:23
Not only did it not break down on its 27,000 mile trip across the world, but it handled pretty well on the dirt tracks of Bolivia too.
Equus said:
Yes they do... slowly, even after modification. They're not very competitive.
You can’t drive. I suggest you stick to something easier to handle. Funny how a Chim made it across the world, should that be, can’t drive or maintain a car? What do you own now, as usual these bs comments are rolled out by those who live in anonymity. Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 23 March 22:32
Equus said:
Well, here are the results for the last 10 years of the HSA Speed Hillclimb Championship.
Why don't you have a look and tell us the best result you can find by a Grimaera?
I'll give you a starter for 10: check out 71st position (out of 95!) in the 2009 Championship.
When the flag drops, the bullst stops...
I can't speak for Chim's but, Worcestershire boy that I am, I can tell you Steven Mogg's Griff 500 often wins the 2.0+ unmodified road class at Shelsley Walsh.Why don't you have a look and tell us the best result you can find by a Grimaera?
I'll give you a starter for 10: check out 71st position (out of 95!) in the 2009 Championship.
When the flag drops, the bulls
t stops...Edited by Equus on Saturday 23 March 22:50
Of course, really, if you want a properly fast hill climb car you give £15,000 or so to Gould or Jedi to get something comfortably outrun modern GT3 cars, so debating which road car is the least slow is kind of silly, really.
EDIT: "tends to" was probably an overstatement
Edited by dunnoreally on Saturday 23 March 23:36
yonex said:
You can’t drive.
Whether I can drive or not is hardly relevant (though the fact that I have never had a road accident in any car, Griffith and several much quicker machines included, suggests that |I can't be that bad?).The point is that nobody who has ever tried to race or hillclimb a Grimaera can, if both you and the results can be believed.
Either the car is crap, or everyone who has ever driven it is. Which is the more likely, do you think?
These are great cars. Some have the power that they are supposed to have and if properly maintained, run and handle well.
If you read the road tests of the period, they shine in the obvious areas and 20 to 25 years later, I always say, there is no such thing as a bad car, just a bad owner/previous owner depending how long someone has had the car.
The owners of TVRs are generally really decent people to spend time with as well.
If you read the road tests of the period, they shine in the obvious areas and 20 to 25 years later, I always say, there is no such thing as a bad car, just a bad owner/previous owner depending how long someone has had the car.
The owners of TVRs are generally really decent people to spend time with as well.
Equus said:
Whether I can drive or not is hardly relevant (though the fact that I have never had a road accident in any car, Griffith and several much quicker machines included, suggests that |I can't be that bad?).
The point is that nobody who has ever tried to race or hillclimb a Grimaera can, if both you and the results can be believed.
Either the car is crap, or everyone who has ever driven it is. Which is the more likely, do you think?
I’d say you’re just a poor driver, with a negative opinion of something you couldn’t get to grips with. The point is that nobody who has ever tried to race or hillclimb a Grimaera can, if both you and the results can be believed.
Either the car is crap, or everyone who has ever driven it is. Which is the more likely, do you think?
Why not list all these fabulous cars.......
yonex said:
I’d say you’re just a poor driver, with a negative opinion of something you couldn’t get to grips with.
You've never met me, and you have no experience of my driving skills, so I'd say you're just making a pretty piss poor attempt at trolling. 
The evidence speaks for itself... if Grimearas were anything like competent, they would have made a decent showing for themselves in motorsport.
They haven't.
Like I said, when the flag drops...
Pub2Pub_Ben said:
Equus said:
It continually astonishes me that owners persist in making excuses for the things, when the truth is that they are simply an ill-handling, unreliable P.O.S... albeit one that looks pretty and makes a nice noise.
Unreliable P.O.S.? Obviously everyone's ownership experience is different, but for balance, I'll just leave this here...Edited by Equus on Saturday 23 March 18:23
Not only did it not break down on its 27,000 mile trip across the world, but it handled pretty well on the dirt tracks of Bolivia too.
It's fair to say that you've made a mug of anyone who ever knocked the reliability of RV8-era TVRs Ben
'But.. But.. I couldn't drive it properly so it must be rubbish!'
CanoeSniffer said:
It's fair to say that you've made a mug of anyone who ever knocked the reliability of RV8-era TVRs Ben
'But.. But.. I couldn't drive it properly so it must be rubbish!'
From a handling perspective, it's actually an interesting thread to read, because I've been in both camps. Despite Kermit being a lowly 4 litre, I remember being rather intimidated by mine when I first bought it, and it took me a year or so before I was fully comfortable sliding it around. But before I bought the Chim, my previous sports car ownership was limited to a Porsche 944 - great car, but very different, being relatively over-tyred, better balanced, and having less torque. From that starting point, it took quite a while before I was fully confident with judging the responses of the high torque, low gearing and relatively narrow tyres of the TVR, especially if the road surface was a bit choppy. But I guess that's one of the appealing aspects of TVR ownership - the more time and effort you put into it, the more you're rewarded as you learn.
Basically, with any Wheeler-era TVR, I'd say that if you make sure the car is set up and the dampers and suchlike are on point, and put the effort into learning the car, you'll be repaid in full with a great driving experience. And to me, that's more important than any measurement against a stopwatch.
But then, I might be biased. Because for me, the Chimaera has been more than just a great car. It's been a life-changing one.
Equus said:
The evidence speaks for itself... if Grimearas were anything like competent, they would have made a decent showing for themselves in motorsport.
They haven't.
Like I said, when the flag drops...
Tbh car motosport bores me sThey haven't.
Like I said, when the flag drops...
tless especially after watching the Isle of Man TT races.rick.e said:
swisstoni said:
Equus said:
Esceptico said:
As there was some traffic far ahead and I was already going a bit too quickly I came off the throttle and brushed the brakes. Bloody thing went from lane 3 to lane 2! Fortunately the road was empty. The salesperson said I had upset the car by the “sudden” shift of weight from full throttle to braking. Strange that I’ve never experienced that again in any road car.
Every now and then - not often, and very unpredictably - mine would try to kill me under hard acceleration, as you crossed the crown of the road when pulling out to overtake.I did a computer analysis of the rear suspension that showed, under certain circumstances, the rear roll geometric roll centre (which is one of the things that governs weight transfer characteristics) would jump from one side of the car, across and up to the other side. In terms of forces, it's a bit like a latching mechanism going over-centre, causing an instantaneous shift in the loads on the tyre contact patches.
TVR's look nice, make a lovely sound, and go well in a straight line, but their engineering would make Ralph Nader have a dicky fit.
I still mourn the sale of my Griff 12 years later, and to date, it is the most rewarding car I have ever owned (though I hope my newly acquired Alpine may change that).
For those considering whether a TVR is right for them, there is a simple question: If you want to actually learn how a car works, learn its characteristics, read what is going on through the seat of your pants, at speeds which won't scare you to death, and then learn how to exploit those characteristics, then a TVR is worth considering. The handling limits are quite low, therefore doable in relative safety, but frankly this nonsense about a computer modelled roll over latching effect which is going to turn me round and spit me out, its bull. I'll put my 100k miles in crap Scottish weather against a computer model any day. On a dry road, my Griffith was very predictable, and loss of grip in the dry was progressive, unless you failed to read the road correctly. In wet weather? Well you just don't exceed 2000rpm, but with so much torque available you don't need to.
If on the other hand you want the ultimate speed in a road car, then there are plenty of cars which no doubt such a computer model would show have geometry perfect to the tenth of a millimetre, and build by robot to match. Such a car, lets call it the Caybox MXZ4, will get you from A to B much quicker than a TVR because its limits are higher, and you will learn nothing. You will learn nothing because (a) the limits of grip are so high you will scare yourself before you get anywhere near or (b) You won't know when you are getting near the limit because there are 6 layers of electronics isolating you from what the car is doing, or (c) As you approach the limit, another 6 layers of electronics will step in to save you.
ks. I’ve owned and driven dozens of high performance cars. My favourite being an early 911 with 210 bhp. Around 1000 kg. No driver aids. As well as a host of bikes. The only car that has done something weird like that is the TVR. Xcore said:
Iv got a 4.6 and it’s great, just watch the throttle when it’s damp out. Defiantly more a GT car then a proper sports car though.
I had the choice of one of these or an early 996 911, and chose the tvr on the basis that the engine is tried and tested, and the thought of the ims shaft lunching the 911 scared me a little. And the greater sense of occasion. Ofcourse there are common issues like rust on the outriggers so choose wisely and you will be fine.
Most have had the riggers done or budget around 2k to have them done if not
Defiantly or definitely? I had the choice of one of these or an early 996 911, and chose the tvr on the basis that the engine is tried and tested, and the thought of the ims shaft lunching the 911 scared me a little. And the greater sense of occasion. Ofcourse there are common issues like rust on the outriggers so choose wisely and you will be fine.
Most have had the riggers done or budget around 2k to have them done if not
Edited by Xcore on Saturday 23 March 09:26
Raygun said:
Equus said:
The evidence speaks for itself... if Grimearas were anything like competent, they would have made a decent showing for themselves in motorsport.
They haven't.
Like I said, when the flag drops...
Tbh car motosport bores me sThey haven't.
Like I said, when the flag drops...
tless especially after watching the Isle of Man TT races.
Edited by Byker28i on Sunday 24th March 08:11
Esceptico said:
rick.e said:
swisstoni said:
Equus said:
Esceptico said:
As there was some traffic far ahead and I was already going a bit too quickly I came off the throttle and brushed the brakes. Bloody thing went from lane 3 to lane 2! Fortunately the road was empty. The salesperson said I had upset the car by the “sudden” shift of weight from full throttle to braking. Strange that I’ve never experienced that again in any road car.
Every now and then - not often, and very unpredictably - mine would try to kill me under hard acceleration, as you crossed the crown of the road when pulling out to overtake.I did a computer analysis of the rear suspension that showed, under certain circumstances, the rear roll geometric roll centre (which is one of the things that governs weight transfer characteristics) would jump from one side of the car, across and up to the other side. In terms of forces, it's a bit like a latching mechanism going over-centre, causing an instantaneous shift in the loads on the tyre contact patches.
TVR's look nice, make a lovely sound, and go well in a straight line, but their engineering would make Ralph Nader have a dicky fit.
I still mourn the sale of my Griff 12 years later, and to date, it is the most rewarding car I have ever owned (though I hope my newly acquired Alpine may change that).
For those considering whether a TVR is right for them, there is a simple question: If you want to actually learn how a car works, learn its characteristics, read what is going on through the seat of your pants, at speeds which won't scare you to death, and then learn how to exploit those characteristics, then a TVR is worth considering. The handling limits are quite low, therefore doable in relative safety, but frankly this nonsense about a computer modelled roll over latching effect which is going to turn me round and spit me out, its bull. I'll put my 100k miles in crap Scottish weather against a computer model any day. On a dry road, my Griffith was very predictable, and loss of grip in the dry was progressive, unless you failed to read the road correctly. In wet weather? Well you just don't exceed 2000rpm, but with so much torque available you don't need to.
If on the other hand you want the ultimate speed in a road car, then there are plenty of cars which no doubt such a computer model would show have geometry perfect to the tenth of a millimetre, and build by robot to match. Such a car, lets call it the Caybox MXZ4, will get you from A to B much quicker than a TVR because its limits are higher, and you will learn nothing. You will learn nothing because (a) the limits of grip are so high you will scare yourself before you get anywhere near or (b) You won't know when you are getting near the limit because there are 6 layers of electronics isolating you from what the car is doing, or (c) As you approach the limit, another 6 layers of electronics will step in to save you.
ks. I’ve owned and driven dozens of high performance cars. My favourite being an early 911 with 210 bhp. Around 1000 kg. No driver aids. As well as a host of bikes. The only car that has done something weird like that is the TVR. Edited by rick.e on Sunday 24th March 08:29
ianwayne said:
I only just noticed a major error in the article at second reading. I'm not sure what photos they were looking at but there is no pas fluid reservoir under that bonnet. It would be next to the plenum on the driver's side. It really isn't that bad without unless you're stationary or in a very tight car park. In fact, the 'on the road' feeling is better. All IMHO.
The pas racks are unobtanium now anyway, wheras the manual unassisted ones can be had new. Refurb is an option on either of course.
Yep. I have a non-pas Griff 500 and the feeling through the wheel is superb ( and I have solid experience . 3 Westfield's, 996 C4s, amongst others). Wonderful steering and feedback. Lovely to slide at modest speeds (I've not tried a high speed drift, and won't ...). Weighted perfectly and not difficult to park at all. Standard wheels and tyres sizes. The pas racks are unobtanium now anyway, wheras the manual unassisted ones can be had new. Refurb is an option on either of course.
I think a fair few put wider tyres on and hence claim the non pas cars are very heavy to drive.
I've not loved a car as much as my Griff. Such a thing, and still makes me laugh when I overtake 5 cars in one go.
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