RE: Alfa Romeo Stelvio QF vs. Mercedes-AMG C63 S

[gregalfa]

Interesting comments here on Stelvio QV. I have the Stelvio 280 petrol. Brilliant 37 mile drive home along country roads at midnight. 280ps plenty in real world and, for a £45k car, interior a lovely place to sit. Reminds me a bit of when I bought a 57 plate XKR 4.2. In real world XK would have sufficed. Stelvio 280/Giulia Veloce 280 the “sweet spot” cars but engines very bland after the Busso V6.


Fuel consumption over 3500 miles? @ 25mpg. Faults? None.

Also have a Levante. Levante hugely heavier (1/2 a ton) and a nice motorway car. 28mpg. Faults? None after 8 k miles

[saxy]

I’d probably get the slower C63. Just cuz it’s comparatively a bargain for a biturbo V8. I mean, an AMG GT costs nearly twice as much

[Alfahol Addict]

phalfalan said:

Bought a Stelvio QF after owning a Giulia QF for 18 months. With teenage kids the Stelvio is better size wise and the reaction from others when you give it the beans and disappear into the horizon is priceless. There will always be those who argue German is best, it’s the usual boring comments made about interior build quality, blah, blah - I just think both the AMG and Alfa are great cars in different ways so is one better than the other? I don’t care really, thank goodness there are still mad cars these two being made, respect to any owner of either - there isn’t an electric hook up in sight.

Good post.

But, what an utterly pointless comparison by Pistonheads, 'German cars matter'. Yet another article, where the editorial staff are knocking Alfa, it has only been about a week or so, since they did the negative article about the MiTo.

[Matt Bird]

phalfalan said:

Bought a Stelvio QF after owning a Giulia QF for 18 months. With teenage kids the Stelvio is better size wise and the reaction from others when you give it the beans and disappear into the horizon is priceless. There will always be those who argue German is best, it’s the usual boring comments made about interior build quality, blah, blah - I just think both the AMG and Alfa are great cars in different ways so is one better than the other? I don’t care really, thank goodness there are still mad cars these two being made, respect to any owner of either - there isn’t an electric hook up in sight.

Well said!

[DonkeyApple]

robm3 said:

Height makes motorway commuting a hell of a lot easier. Just traded my 428i for a RR Sport and do not miss being level with brake lights, spray, limited visibility etc.. I can see why people are flocking to Sports SUVs, people that do big mileage anyhow.
Got a Mini JCW for the 5am stuff.

They are hugely practical in many ways. The fundamental issue is, as per usual, the two sides of the idiot coin. On one side you have the idiots who buy them because it’s part of a lifestyle rule book that they adhere to and on the other side of the idiot coin are Bonists who see them as an extension of their Class War activities, those who desperately want to be racing drivers or want to be on trend with whatever the latest thing to be angry about is.

Stuck in between the two silly groups are the normal majority who have more of a tendency to be able to buy the car that fits their needs, general desires and budgets.

The simple fact is that if you take a Porsche 911 Turbo and a Cayenne Turbo the latter can sit on the back of the former all day long on public roads. All this CofG silliness is just that. In addition, that extra height gives considerably better visibility which means less slowing down for certain junctions and more safe overtaking opportunities.

And the real killer app of the van on steroids is that you can let the wife use it all day long for school and shopping duties, sling the whole family in it and still have fun driving during family duties, sling dirty dogs in the back and on those few moments when you genuinely have time to escape for an hour or two it’s just as fast and fun to huddle along, if not more amusing to be doing it in a van unless someone has a desperate need to pretend they are a racing driver or as revealednon here they have something a little bit disconnected when it comes to respecting other road users and drive at speeds that genuinely are inappropriate whatever type of car they’re in.

[AC43]

nickfrog said:

AC43 said:

I'd go for the low CoG myself. All day long.

Good to hear you would go for the Caterham rather than the estate with the very high CoG

Correction I should have said the "lower" CoG.

"Lower" as in "as low as possible given the need to fit a family of 4 and all their luggage for a two week holiday in France".

[AC43]

westernlancia said:

So remind me again... apart from impressing morons and shagging up the centre of gravity, what is the exact purpose of the raised ride height in an SUV?

ROFL :-)

[DonkeyApple]

AC43 said:

nickfrog said:

AC43 said:

I'd go for the low CoG myself. All day long.

Good to hear you would go for the Caterham rather than the estate with the very high CoG

Correction I should have said the "lower" CoG.

"Lower" as in "as low as possible given the need to fit a family of 4 and all their luggage for a two week holiday in France".

I understand what you’re saying but you really do need to be travelling at immense pace for CofG to be a genuine factor.

Where CofG arguably benefits on a European family jaunt is in the event of a motorway incident requiring sudden, high speed evasive manoeuvre but that can be compensated for by the better field of vision ahead by being higher up. And that’s before we consider that the majority of drivers in such an event just hit the anchors, st their eyes and start praying.

I think the issue with ‘CofG’ being a fallback argument against SUVs is that as a physical force it really isn’t all that relevant at all. It’s valid all day long against something like a 4x4 like an old Rangie where at any sane B road pace a lower car is immeasurably superior but put something like a C63 against a comparably powered Macan or Cayenne and we’re into clutching at straws territory and one that risks straying into accusations of using a weak reason to mask personal social views.

[nickfrog]

AC43 said:

nickfrog said:

AC43 said:

I'd go for the low CoG myself. All day long.

Good to hear you would go for the Caterham rather than the estate with the very high CoG

Correction I should have said the "lower" CoG.

"Lower" as in "as low as possible given the need to fit a family of 4 and all their luggage for a two week holiday in France".

And the Stelvio would be my choice for that purpose. For track days, where CoG becomes relevant, neither cars would appeal.

At the end of the day, it's about choice.

[Richales]

Given the price is similar to the Alfa I'd far rather have the new F Pace SVR. Not many reviews out yet but this guys seems to have done a few videos - shame the audio is crap in places on the first one though:

https://youtu.be/YTPyftXIUNo

I'm looking forward to the RRSport comparison video he says he's doing though.

[Harry_523]

9k rpm said:

cerb4.5lee said:

9k rpm said:

Is the merc made of lead?

German cars are always heavy and its par for the course. The Alfa is relatively light for what it is to be fair, also the Quadrifoglio saloon is commendably light compared to its rivals as well.

Didn’t know the Giulia was that light so just did some research and am really surprised:
M3 saloon 1,560kg
C63 amg 1,825kg
Giulia quadrifoglio 1,524kg
RS4 avant 1,799kg

Seems it’s only Mercs and Audis that are heavy although you can sort of forgive the RS4 as it has 4wd.

Harry Metcalf's video on the GQV weighs it in at 1,664kg (3/4 fuel, no driver), as Alfa have only quoted the dry weight. I suspect they have done the same the with the SQV and merc have quoted weight with fuel/driver etc, so in reality its probably getting on for a 2 tonne car.

[twin sparky]

Having just sold my C63 estate and now temporary in an SUV, albeit not one as powerful as the Alfa .. I can honestly say that I miss the AMG so much. The whole drama of the V8 packaged with the practical nature of the wagon makes it just one of the best cars.. I don't see how a fast 4x4 SUV can be anywhere near as fun to drive? Apart from when the weather gets sh*ty in the winter.

I was thinking about getting an RR Sport or Cayenne next but actually the more I think about it ... I will go back to a fast estate, which one, well I've got 12 months to work that out. But it won't be a C63s .. £90k!! My god that is an immense amount of money!

[anonymous-user]

twin sparky said:

Having just sold my C63 estate and now temporary in an SUV, albeit not one as powerful as the Alfa .. I can honestly say that I miss the AMG so much. The whole drama of the V8 packaged with the practical nature of the wagon makes it just one of the best cars.. I don't see how a fast 4x4 SUV can be anywhere near as fun to drive? Apart from when the weather gets sh*ty in the winter.

I was thinking about getting an RR Sport or Cayenne next but actually the more I think about it ... I will go back to a fast estate, which one, well I've got 12 months to work that out. But it won't be a C63s .. £90k!! My god that is an immense amount of money!

Find the right dealer and you could be in a C63s estate minus the costly ceramics on this car as tested for sub £70k.

[AC43]

DonkeyApple said:

AC43 said:

nickfrog said:

AC43 said:

I'd go for the low CoG myself. All day long.

Good to hear you would go for the Caterham rather than the estate with the very high CoG

Correction I should have said the "lower" CoG.

"Lower" as in "as low as possible given the need to fit a family of 4 and all their luggage for a two week holiday in France".

I understand what you’re saying but you really do need to be travelling at immense pace for CofG to be a genuine factor.

Where CofG arguably benefits on a European family jaunt is in the event of a motorway incident requiring sudden, high speed evasive manoeuvre but that can be compensated for by the better field of vision ahead by being higher up. And that’s before we consider that the majority of drivers in such an event just hit the anchors, st their eyes and start praying.

I think the issue with ‘CofG’ being a fallback argument against SUVs is that as a physical force it really isn’t all that relevant at all. It’s valid all day long against something like a 4x4 like an old Rangie where at any sane B road pace a lower car is immeasurably superior but put something like a C63 against a comparably powered Macan or Cayenne and we’re into clutching at straws territory and one that risks straying into accusations of using a weak reason to mask personal social views.

You make some good points - and I'm not "anti-SUV" per se. Loads of my mates have them. Although one of them did manage to roll an early fully loaded Disco on a motorway carrying out an evasive maneouvre.

And whenever I've hired one (admittedly at the cheaper end of the spectrum) I haven't enjoyed pitching them into corners.

I assume the more expensive ones with air suspension and so on mask that extra height and bulk a bit better.

[Pumpsmynads]

76 grand c class! The profit margin on these must be yuge.
150% more than the base model.
£45k for the engine and associated bits!

[Dave Hedgehog]

Pumpsmynads said:

76 grand c class! The profit margin on these must be yuge.
150% more than the base model.
£45k for the engine and associated bits!

and how many people do not chuck some options on a car like this

you would need serious medical help if you spent 90k on a C63, you could get a new golf r estate and a manual V10 R8 (or a decent 911) for that money

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Monday 25th March 14:48

[Onehp]

Harry_523 said:

9k rpm said:

cerb4.5lee said:

9k rpm said:

Is the merc made of lead?

German cars are always heavy and its par for the course. The Alfa is relatively light for what it is to be fair, also the Quadrifoglio saloon is commendably light compared to its rivals as well.

Didn’t know the Giulia was that light so just did some research and am really surprised:
M3 saloon 1,560kg
C63 amg 1,825kg
Giulia quadrifoglio 1,524kg
RS4 avant 1,799kg

Seems it’s only Mercs and Audis that are heavy although you can sort of forgive the RS4 as it has 4wd.

Harry Metcalf's video on the GQV weighs it in at 1,664kg (3/4 fuel, no driver), as Alfa have only quoted the dry weight. I suspect they have done the same the with the SQV and merc have quoted weight with fuel/driver etc, so in reality its probably getting on for a 2 tonne car.

Ferrari/AR do know how to make their cars light... on paper.

Weighed by magazines, the Stelvio QF has a highest weighed kerb weight of 1960kg. The C63s estate (preFL) has been weighed in at 1825kg at most.
Respective DIN declare weights (lightest spec) are 1830kg and 1710kg respectively.

Even if equipment levels may vary (press cars usually quite loaded), all is still right in the world and the RWD estate (with V8) is lighter than the 4wd SUV by a good margin.... some 130kg.

source
source

[anonymous-user]

Dave Hedgehog said:

and how many people done chuck some options on it

you would need serious medical help if you spent 90k on a C63, you could get a new golf r estate and a manual V10 R8 (or a decent 911) for that money

Truth is though that nobody pays that kind of money for these or their competitors.

Decent doscounts on factory builds and heavier discounts yet on stock and pre-reg are standard form.

[Barga]

Brooking10 said:

twin sparky said:

Having just sold my C63 estate and now temporary in an SUV, albeit not one as powerful as the Alfa .. I can honestly say that I miss the AMG so much. The whole drama of the V8 packaged with the practical nature of the wagon makes it just one of the best cars.. I don't see how a fast 4x4 SUV can be anywhere near as fun to drive? Apart from when the weather gets sh*ty in the winter.

I was thinking about getting an RR Sport or Cayenne next but actually the more I think about it ... I will go back to a fast estate, which one, well I've got 12 months to work that out. But it won't be a C63s .. £90k!! My god that is an immense amount of money!

Find the right dealer and you could be in a C63s estate minus the costly ceramics on this car as tested for sub £70k.

£12.5k discount is easily available on C63 premium plus coming in with no extras at £67k.

[Dave Hedgehog]

Brooking10 said:

Truth is though that nobody pays that kind of money for these or their competitors.

Decent doscounts on factory builds and heavier discounts yet on stock and pre-reg are standard form.

knock 30k off and i would be interested