RE: Renault Sport Megane Trophy-R spied!

[Alpinestars]

Guvernator said:

Rarity and novelty factor will always make a product a bit more desirable plus you will you will always find a handful of fans who will like the car enough that they won't car about the rear seats. For the rest of the 99% of the population it doesn't make sense. Don't get me wrong I love that they make nutty cars and I think the Clio V6 is a fantastic little thing but that has the engine in the back so no rear seats is pretty well justified and was designed to be a bonkers two seater super hatch from the start but I just don't get the idea of ripping out perfectly good seats from a car that already has them in. The loss of practicality and therefore huge reduction in it's potential market far outweighs the 60-70kg a decent lightweight rear bench would weigh IMO.

I always reference the BMW M3 CSL in this regard, it lost 110kgs but still retained the rear seats, if it hadn't I don't think it would have sold a fraction as many or reached such a lofty status as one of the best BMW's made. The GTS that followed it with the rear seats removed doesn't get half as much love or attention despite being a better, more hardcore drivers car.

I disagree. It’s a halo product for Renault and probably a loss leader. It’s obviousky not aimed at you, so maybe the conversation is a bit moot. I’d never buy an R26, but I bought the 26R. Horses for courses.

The CSL/GTS comparison is a bit misplaced. Many many more people have owned and driven a CSL vs the GTS - being so much less accessible means it’s way less experienced by drivers and (consequently) less talked about - and as you say, despite being a much better car.

[Track_Cit]

Anyone crying about it having two seats needs to get a grip. It's the equivalent of a GTI Clubsport S. I believe Renault were actually the first to do a 2 seater hot hatch in the first place were they not? Yes the five door version makes it a bit nonsensical but Renaultsport have a 5 door body to work with so what do you expect?

WCZ said:

hope it's good, wasn't keen on the last trophy-r

Did you drive one? If the answer is yes then you obviously cannot be pleased. Anyone of motoring credence who has driven it loved it (Chris Harris / Steve Sutcliffe / EVO journalists etc.)

I owned one and it was (and still is) a fantastically fun driver focussed car, probably one of the best. I have a Lotus Elise S Cup and despite being more hardcore is not as good as the Megane in some respects. It is just a brilliant car. It certainly still holds it's own against even more powerful modern hot hatches. It also holds it's value well too

[C.A.R.]

Track_Cit said:

Anyone crying about it having two seats needs to get a grip. It's the equivalent of a GTI Clubsport S. I believe Renault were actually the first to do a 2 seater hot hatch in the first place were they not? Yes the five door version makes it a bit nonsensical but Renaultsport have a 5 door body to work with so what do you expect?

That's contradicting though - the Clubsport S only comes as a 3-door body. To have rear doors, but only scaffolding inside them, is just plain silly. It's the epitome of the wider problem - Renault (like others) dropped the 3-door shape due to demand (read: Cost) but have used the same recipe from the R26R (which arguably took many cues from a GT3RS in its concept) on their family-friendly and budget-friendly 5-door.

It's hilariously sh*t. It could drive on water and it would still be sh*t.

[Guvernator]

I don't think the GTI Clubsport S makes sense either, it's a Golf, you know THE hatchback famous for being the perfect do everything, all rounder......with the rear seats ripped out. What is it's purpose now then? A hardcore trackday Golf? If that's your bag there are far far better two seater platforms to start off from. I much prefer the standard GTI Clubsport, at least it's not trying to pretend to be something it isn't.

Anyway I've said my bit about my thoughts on two seater hatchbacks but it seems to upset some people so I'll leave the fans to it.

[DoubleD]

If you want a car with back seats then you are in luck as both manufactures sell them. Problem sorted.

[Alpinestars]

Guvernator said:

I don't think the GTI Clubsport S makes sense either, it's a Golf, you know THE hatchback famous for being the perfect do everything, all rounder......with the rear seats ripped out. What is it's purpose now then? A hardcore trackday Golf? If that's your bag there are far far better two seater platforms to start off from. I much prefer the standard GTI Clubsport, at least it's not trying to pretend to be something it isn't.

Anyway I've said my bit about my thoughts on two seater hatchbacks but it seems to upset some people so I'll leave the fans to it.

Beauty is in the eye of the buyer. If you’re not a buyer, you’re not a buyer.

Hardcore fwd cars have a market - most other focussed cars that you refer to will either be mid or rear engined. These cars fill the fwd niche.

[Guvernator]

DoubleD said:

If you want a car with back seats then you are in luck as both manufactures sell them. Problem sorted.

That's great news. Thanks

I just think it's the easy way out that manufacturers seem to be taking now which bugs me. "We need to give this family hatchback\saloon a bit more edge so we look cool". "I know lets rip the rear seats out and stick in a half roll cage, that'll make it look really hardcore" except it's now not a family hatchback and still not hardcore enough to be properly used on track.

The R26.R I can almost forgive as I believe it was the first manufacturer road car to try it and it's pretty hardcore and even decent on track by all accounts but even that didn't sell it's allocated number.

PS most half cages are crap in a crash by the way as they aren't welded in properly.

PPS I'm still quite curious as to what they will do with those rear doors. I assume just weld them shut but are they going to leave the shut lines or do a proper job and fill those in too? If so that won't be easy or cheap.

[Jon_S_Rally]

framerateuk said:

They've always updated the car regularly.

250 - 265 Trophy - 265 - 275 Trophy (and Trophy R) - 275 Cup S

I bought a a 280 Cup and have no problems with them updating the car. Lotus have been doing it for years too.

Do you have to own the latest one all the time?

They have, but the timescale has been compressed. What you mention above took around six years, while this has taken less than two.

Would it bother me? Not particularly, but I think it would some.

wab172uk said:

Think it's maybe because of the reviews.

Megane 280 review, Cr@p

Megane Trophy review. Basically a 280 with a full option list. Still Cr@p

Megane Trophy-R review. Trophy with every option take off, and a roll cage fitted. Review? What is should have been from the off, but only for die hard Renault fans who don't need more than 2 seats. Results in poor sales.

I don't remember reading any reviews where any of the MK4 R.S. Meganes have been described as "Cr@p". It followed probably the greatest hot hatch of its generation. With a slight change in direction, it was always going to upset some.

Also worth remembering that the 225 got lukewarm reviews when it was launched, and we ended up with the R26 and R26.R, so it's still early days for this car.

C.A.R. said:

That's contradicting though - the Clubsport S only comes as a 3-door body. To have rear doors, but only scaffolding inside them, is just plain silly. It's the epitome of the wider problem - Renault (like others) dropped the 3-door shape due to demand (read: Cost) but have used the same recipe from the R26R (which arguably took many cues from a GT3RS in its concept) on their family-friendly and budget-friendly 5-door.

It's hilariously sh*t. It could drive on water and it would still be sh*t.

Is it "st", or is it just that you don't like it? There's a pretty big difference. Quite impressive to declare a car as useless when no one outside of Renault has driven it.

[nickfrog]

C.A.R. said:

That's contradicting though - the Clubsport S only comes as a 3-door body. To have rear doors, but only scaffolding inside them, is just plain silly. It's the epitome of the wider problem - Renault (like others) dropped the 3-door shape due to demand (read: Cost) but have used the same recipe from the R26R (which arguably took many cues from a GT3RS in its concept) on their family-friendly and budget-friendly 5-door.

It's hilariously sh*t. It could drive on water and it would still be sh*t.

I genuinely don't understand how the number of doors makes it st. While it will add a few kgs (30 or so I guess) it will be a stiffer platform and won't affect how it drives. If it's not cost efficient to have a 3-door then they they would have to price that in and sell it for more money : is that a good thing ?

Perhaps you're talking about the aesthetics or the image. I suspect those may not be that important for the typical buyer of this car who may value stuff like the driving experience more ( I actually think it's the best looking hatch around, even in 5-door).

[framerateuk]

Jon_S_Rally said:

They have, but the timescale has been compressed. What you mention above took around six years, while this has taken less than two.

Would it bother me? Not particularly, but I think it would some..

Well it took 6 years to get all the way to the Trophy R. But I had a 250 Cup in 2010 and the 265 Trophy followed less than a year later. (At least Renault made it clear the Trophy 300 was coming out shortly after the 280 launch this time).

Also I remember seeing spy shots of what people were calling the next .R when I still had my 250, it still took years before it appeared on the market.

[Leins]

Guvernator said:

I always reference the BMW M3 CSL in this regard, it lost 110kgs but still retained the rear seats, if it hadn't I don't think it would have sold a fraction as many or reached such a lofty status as one of the best BMW's made. The GTS that followed it with the rear seats removed doesn't get half as much love or attention despite being a better, more hardcore drivers car.

IMO, a two-seater CSL would have made little difference to sales. I honestly don’t believe anyone went for a CSL over a 996 GT3 or similar because there were rear seats in place. In fact, I found the CSL’s seats were a bit of a liability as any use generally meant the front seat backs and rear centre console got the ste knocked out of them

Regarding hot hatches, the main selling point for me is that the great ones are fun to drive. In that respect, a more extreme and stripped hot hatch is even more fun to drive. Whether “uncompromised” sports cars are actually more fun again is debatable and very much down to personal opinion

[Derek Chevalier]

Guvernator said:

The R26.R I can almost forgive as I believe it was the first manufacturer road car to try it and it's pretty hardcore and even decent on track by all accounts but even that didn't sell it's allocated number.

It was great on track - I loved mine.

The Civic is also very good.

https://www.hepworthmotorgroup.com/news/the-honda-...

[gutbobs]

some good video of it here, running without any of the cladding on it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwEr2dbXrVM

[CraigV6]

Derek Chevalier said:

It was great on track - I loved mine.

The Civic is also very good.

https://www.hepworthmotorgroup.com/news/the-honda-...

The Civic is an abomination.

Back on topic, I expect Renault will get this thing round the ring quicker than any other in the class. It’s a loss leading marketing exercise that will sell out regardless of price and might attract interest and sell a few more 280’s and Trophy’s.

Edited by CraigV6 on Saturday 6th April 13:35

Edited by CraigV6 on Saturday 6th April 13:37

[R1nur]

Alpinestars said:

I’d never buy an R26, but I bought the 26R. Horses for courses.

Snap.

I never understand the hate for 2 seater hatchbacks.

I wish people would say “it doesn’t suit me because I want 4 seats”, not “everyone who buys a 2 seat hatch is an idiot” - my summary!

Every one of my 3 2 seat hatchbacks has been free to run or even made a profit. As well as being the pinnacle of hot hatches at the time. I don’t feel stupid.

[nickfrog]

wab172uk said:

Megane 280 review, Cr@p

Megane Trophy review. Basically a 280 with a full option list. Still Cr@p

Do you have a link to those reviews ? The Trophy has always been a Cup car with options anyway.

[okenemem]

looks good

[robm3]

IanJ9375 said:

Guvernator said:

I always reference the BMW M3 CSL in this regard, it lost 110kgs but still retained the rear seats, if it hadn't I don't think it would have sold a fraction as many or reached such a lofty status as one of the best BMW's made. The GTS that followed it with the rear seats removed doesn't get half as much love or attention despite being a better, more hardcore drivers car.

Remember BMW struggled to shift the CSL when it was new despite having the rear seats in place, it's only later in life become an icon.
When my brother was picking up his E60 M5 it was the same price as a CSL at the same dealer, think it was £24-25k back then, well before the lofty heights of today.

Yep, brought my CSL second hand from BMW as approved used with warranty for 23K!

[IanJ9375]

robm3 said:

Yep, brought my CSL second hand from BMW as approved used with warranty for 23K!

Still got it?
You've done well if you have

[shoestring7]

Presumably the scabby M140i loaded with cameras didn't follow it all the way around...

SS7