RE: BMW M135i xDrive confirmed with 306hp four-pot
Discussion
Maybe I am a bit strange, but I bought mine partly as I like the looks but to be honest, a lot of the time, i.e. when it rains, the RWD aspect is a bit of a faff, coming off roundabouts for example and it isnt all fantastic fun all the time, when you are in the mood if the car is configured right, in sport plus or off and manual gears it is good fun then you start to miss and LSD, but in any other mode its grip, slide, lollop, light on the dash, lurch, spin the inside wheel etc. When you just want to get a move on, it can be a bit frustrating.
I suspect the new one will be a bit more sporty in its responses, hopefully better damping and steering, and the lack of an LSD wont be such an issue with 4wd.
Not sure how a less powerful, smaller, less torquey engine with 2 less cylinder is going to be more tractable than the existing B58 and prior N55 engine ?
It has lost its USP, but there was no way BMW were going to do another RWD 1 series, like has been said, most people dont care, a lot dont know and developing something that is a bit more compromised for normal buyers to appease a few enthusiasts isnt going to happen.
Sure the new one is going to be great, if you prefer the M135i/M140i, buy one as there is no shortage, they start at 12 or so grand now.
I suspect the new one will be a bit more sporty in its responses, hopefully better damping and steering, and the lack of an LSD wont be such an issue with 4wd.
Not sure how a less powerful, smaller, less torquey engine with 2 less cylinder is going to be more tractable than the existing B58 and prior N55 engine ?
It has lost its USP, but there was no way BMW were going to do another RWD 1 series, like has been said, most people dont care, a lot dont know and developing something that is a bit more compromised for normal buyers to appease a few enthusiasts isnt going to happen.
Sure the new one is going to be great, if you prefer the M135i/M140i, buy one as there is no shortage, they start at 12 or so grand now.
ashleyman said:
If they already make the car I'm describing, how can you say it won't fit? They just need to work from that chassis, and then start selling that version in the UK but with the M xDrive system that lets you select what wheels get power. That would probably make it the most capable and best selling hot hatch around - best of both worlds.
The platform is designed for transverse engines, so re-engineering it for a north-south layout for a single model in the range wouldn't be cost effective, if it were even possible. A transverse in-line six probably wouldn't fit. BMW has done its sums and worked out that the cost savings and packaging related interior space gains available by using the FWD MINI platform for the cooking models outweigh any potential loss of appeal for the existing buyers of a model which represents a handful of percent of sales, especially as AWD will bring new buyers who may have dismissed the old model. It makes good sense, even though for me it's a shame.
Edited by Limpet on Wednesday 27th March 19:32
IanJ9375 said:
aeropilot said:
That's based on the current outgoing longitudinal engine/rwd platform....... 
Yes I know this - merely pointing out they have already been running around for a few years with a full on 1 Series XDrive (It seems to be a surprise to some, even on an enthusiast site)I'm pretty sure that after a short period of mourning only a couple of traditionalists will be disappointed.
Despite all the current moaning, the mainstream mags will give the new 1er glowing reviews. Buyers are mainly interested in the badge not how it drives. And interestingly, looks like in Germany (and most other markets) there will also be no "finale" RWD edition. Which makes sense from a marketing standpoint. Why point out that the successor might actually be a bit 'meh'?
Personally I find it sad that BMW are doing this. But on the other hand it might tempt Alfa into pulling the finger out and launch the RWD Giulietta. Which from a perspective of "RWDness" has potential to be better as the 1er ever was.
Despite all the current moaning, the mainstream mags will give the new 1er glowing reviews. Buyers are mainly interested in the badge not how it drives. And interestingly, looks like in Germany (and most other markets) there will also be no "finale" RWD edition. Which makes sense from a marketing standpoint. Why point out that the successor might actually be a bit 'meh'?
Personally I find it sad that BMW are doing this. But on the other hand it might tempt Alfa into pulling the finger out and launch the RWD Giulietta. Which from a perspective of "RWDness" has potential to be better as the 1er ever was.
ashleyman said:
aeropilot said:
ashleyman said:
Shame it's not an AWD 6 cylinder with the different drive modes like the M5.
That's because its a TRANSVERSE engine layout - you couldn't physically fit an inline six and the gearbox etc across the engine bay 
They already make the M140i with xDrive AND it's got 6 cylinders. We just don't get it in the UK.
If they already make the car I'm describing, how can you say it won't fit? They just need to work from that chassis, and then start selling that version in the UK but with the M xDrive system that lets you select what wheels get power. That would probably make it the most capable and best selling hot hatch around - best of both worlds.
PH said:
While the old rear-driven six-pot M140i and its closest predecessors had more power than the upcoming model, the traction advantage and, according to BMW, a more tractable turbocharged engine suggest an M135i xDrive will have better real-world performance. Indeed, the M140i has never been a hot hatch chosen for its outright pace but rather its more traditional powertrain and driveline layout. The two-axle-driven rivals from VW and AMG have more often than not been the quicker point-to-point machines.
what?a 140i, is a turbo charged 3.0 litre engine making 340bhp and 500Nm.
This new engine is a 2.0 turbo charged engine making 306bhp and xxx Nm (where xxx is less than 500Nm)
As the new engine has a litre less swept capacity, to make the same torque it must be more heavily boosted so to suggest it will be "more tractable" is clearly absolute bobins.
The reason a Golf R is potentially faster A-B is because it has 4wd, but ime, a 140i is actually faster because it has more power and significantly less loss in its 2wd drivetrain. Yes, in the wet, on tight twisty roads the golf is quicker, but in reality there's not going to be much in it, either way.
standing 1/4 mile:
Golf R = 13.4s
140i between 12.8 and 13.1 sec as far as i can tell.
N'ring lap:
Golf R = 8.14
140i = 7.54
140i_quicker_round_track_than_golfr
drag_race
Imho people are just mourning the 'idea' of rwd and 6 cylinders.
Unless you're prepared to mod the crap out of the suspension etc. that's all the M140i was to me, a nice idea that never delivered.
If this one handles as well as the new crop of BMW's then I'd rather a 4pot and 4wd than be frustrated with an idea.
I've a feeling it's going to be very good and for those that like BMW's, it'll be a good purchase.
Unless you're prepared to mod the crap out of the suspension etc. that's all the M140i was to me, a nice idea that never delivered.
If this one handles as well as the new crop of BMW's then I'd rather a 4pot and 4wd than be frustrated with an idea.
I've a feeling it's going to be very good and for those that like BMW's, it'll be a good purchase.
Very early days, but I'm wondering if they will give a simple FWD version enough power / honing to make a mid range hot hatch rival. Somehow all that AWD stuff just to get power down seems like a band aid. If it needs the car needs that much oomph, perhaps it is simply way to heavy to start with? Vicious circle...
I think people assume that without 4wd the M Lites are straight lines only, which isnt true, the combination of decent handling, fast auto box, loads of torque means they will get round a dry circuit pretty quickly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Top_Gear_tes...
1.25.1 puts it up with some pretty impressive kit, and thats an M135i, and M140i has a bit more power and may be a smidge quicker.
Not sure if there is any other difference, seems almost too quick a time for what it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Top_Gear_tes...
1.25.1 puts it up with some pretty impressive kit, and thats an M135i, and M140i has a bit more power and may be a smidge quicker.
Not sure if there is any other difference, seems almost too quick a time for what it is.
I don't see the problem with this car , VW have been using the same formula in the golf r for years now , a good all rounder , daily driver , it works , people will buy it as perception is bmw is more premium than vw , doesn't really matter if it's any good or not , it will all come down to a decent finance deal , the golf r went from 6 cylinders to 4 and it still sold well , I am sure this will do the same .
J4CKO said:
I think people assume that without 4wd the M Lites are straight lines only, which isnt true, the combination of decent handling, fast auto box, loads of torque means they will get round a dry circuit pretty quickly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Top_Gear_tes...
1.25.1 puts it up with some pretty impressive kit, and thats an M135i, and M140i has a bit more power and may be a smidge quicker.
Not sure if there is any other difference, seems almost too quick a time for what it is.
So will a Golf R, S3, A45. Nothing that the current set don't have and probably less power, worse interior, ugly looks etchttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Top_Gear_tes...
1.25.1 puts it up with some pretty impressive kit, and thats an M135i, and M140i has a bit more power and may be a smidge quicker.
Not sure if there is any other difference, seems almost too quick a time for what it is.
Cant help but look at the back and see a Peugeot 308 GTI
But the poster above seeing similarities with the A Class might be on to something. Aren’t BMW and Mercedes going to start sharing productions / platforms? In the not so distant future who knows- we could see a Golf / A Class / 1 series shared platform.
But the poster above seeing similarities with the A Class might be on to something. Aren’t BMW and Mercedes going to start sharing productions / platforms? In the not so distant future who knows- we could see a Golf / A Class / 1 series shared platform.
Shiv_P said:
So will a Golf R, S3, A45. Nothing that the current set don't have and probably less power, worse interior, ugly looks etc
But crucially for some, not VAG or Merc.I personally liked the look of the 1er and the interior was fine too.
I find all current Mercs too blingy and borderline tacky.
VAG dull as ditchwater but it's all subjective.
Being a BMW, it'll likely have a rear bias so none of the tendency to understeer like the competition. This puts it ahead for my driving preferences.
The 135/140 has lost it's usp, to us weird enthusiasts.
For the most though, moving to a FWD platform will mean more rear space, more boot space, easier to work on, easier in bad weather, etc. The majority of people buying a 1 series will get a cooking petrol or diesel model, and won't care for RWD driving dynamics.
The only reason I had a M135i was due to the 6cyl, RWD layout of the car. I went to look at a Golf, and it did nothing for me.
I can't see the 135/140 selling as well as the old N55/B58 equipped car.
For the most though, moving to a FWD platform will mean more rear space, more boot space, easier to work on, easier in bad weather, etc. The majority of people buying a 1 series will get a cooking petrol or diesel model, and won't care for RWD driving dynamics.
The only reason I had a M135i was due to the 6cyl, RWD layout of the car. I went to look at a Golf, and it did nothing for me.
I can't see the 135/140 selling as well as the old N55/B58 equipped car.
aeropilot said:
I wouldn't bank on it, given MIni's don't and this it is basically a 'big Mini all4' but just wearing a different frock.
It shares components and a platform, I think "wearing a different frock" is doing the engineers a disservice, Ride Height
Engine type/mapping
Engine tuning
Spring rates/type
Torque split of 4wd and other programming
ESP tuning
Wheel size/type
Gearing
Gear Shift Patterns
Gear Shift Agressiveness
Drive modes
Final drive ratio
Wheel size/weight
Brake disk size
Caliper size
Brake modulation
Tyre type, profile, width, compound, sidewall stiffness and pressures
damper bump/rebound
Roll bar stiffness
Camber
Toe
Caster
Driveshaft size/material
Weight distribution
Body height
Suspension Arm Length/track/material
Engine Mount Stiffness
Suspension Bush material/stiffness
Subframe mounting
Steering assistance/weighting/wheel size
Steering ratio
Seats
Bodyshell configuration (sometimes different materials in different places, not sure)
And loads of detailed stuff I haven't got a clue about, suffice to say one will be markedly different to the other despite sharing parts of the lower monocoque and suspension pick up points
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