RE: Renault Megane 300 Trophy vs. VW Golf GTI TCR
Discussion
Heathwood said:
I remember when the press were waxing lyrical about the R19 16v when pitched against the mk2 golf 16v. It’s been the same ever since that the Renault is the best drivers car and the Golf the best ownership proposition. Some things never change. Whereas mk2 16vs now fetch strong money, whens the last time anyone saw a R19?
Watch this space, I'd say. Williams values have soared, good condition Clio 16Vs are on their way up - R19 16V is next in the line, in my opinion. The fact they've been neglected so long (and therefore not many around) will only make them more desirable.Edited by Heathwood on Thursday 4th April 19:00
Onehp said:
They are apparently very good, not in the least because they are the lightest in the class. 470l boot is only bested by the few estate hot hatches, too. Enjoy and let's see what the future brings...
Where did you get 470 from? Just configured one, based on opinons here - it says 398l in the specs.Water Fairy said:
The Voice said:
Both cars have appeal, but the engine bay in the Renault 
Looks like they've just thrown a load of wire and pipe at it and hoped for the best
In other words it looks like, well, an engine. You think the golf looks any better without the cover? It's not as if it's a V8 and worth staring at................. Looks like they've just thrown a load of wire and pipe at it and hoped for the bestThe German car with a logically arranged, neat and tidy engine bay. Everything well positioned and logically thought out. German sensibility.
The French car with an engine bay which strikes fear into the hearts of mechanics; crossover pipes, dangling wires, just a general aesthetic and logistical mess. French nonchalance.
I’d take the Renault
Brian Fallon said:
It's a shame Audi has phased out the 3 door S3. Yes, it's a bit more expensive, but it has a great 4wd system and is a whole lot quicker (0-100kph in 4.5 seconds for the 310hp, automatic version) than either the VW or Renault. The base price of the S3 includes everything you'd need for a good driving experience. The Renault, with options, works out at a similar price.
The problem with the S3 and the Golf R, which is essentially the same car (which I had for a year), is that, while they are EXTREMELY competent and very easy to live with, compared to something more focused, like the Megane or Civic, they simply don't feel as exciting to drive. When you're looking for an engaging drive, the 4WD actually holds them back, because they have seemingly endless grip and traction.The only 4WD hatch I've driven that offered similar excitement to a Megane R.S. or a Civic Type-R was a Focus RS, because you can actually feel the drive from the rear. The VAG stuff is undoubtedly better from a comfort/convenience perspective, but not for a driving tool. I guess it depends which one rates most highly to the individual.
wab172uk said:
As an every day car, and a feel good factor the S3 is hard to beat. It's quicker than the pair too. But (as an S3 Saloon owner) they are very boring to drive. Fantastic all-rounders, quick, but dull.
Both the Megane and the Golf will be more fun to drive.
Totally agree.Both the Megane and the Golf will be more fun to drive.
Derek Chevalier said:
Other than the looks how is the Golf better than the Civic in daily usability?
Civic is bigger inside, has well weighted controls and has a decent ride (in comfort mode). It also doesn't have the handicap of german "reliability".
The Civics also have much worse infotainment systems, are lairy on the outside (doesn't appeal to many) and generally not as "nice" as the VAG equivalent. Civic is bigger inside, has well weighted controls and has a decent ride (in comfort mode). It also doesn't have the handicap of german "reliability".
I love the Civic Type-R, but I can really see why it doesn't appeal to a lot of people. If I was turning up to a business meeting or a funeral, I'd be quite comfortable doing that in a Golf GTI/R, less so in a Civic with red seats and an ironing board on the back of it.
It's a great car, but it's not for everyone. There are some things that cars like the Golf just do better, but it also means they are less appealing to the die-hard enthusiast. The sales figures reflect where the market is though, so I don't blame VW for their approach.
I'm amazed at people criticising the look of an engine bay. Are these people really so superficial, or joking?
I don't like the look of either car much. I expect the conservatives will choose the VW, and the rest would consider the Renault.
I do prefer Renault as a brand though. They aren't as boring as VW usually are. Each to their own.
I don't like the look of either car much. I expect the conservatives will choose the VW, and the rest would consider the Renault.
I do prefer Renault as a brand though. They aren't as boring as VW usually are. Each to their own.
Mackofthejungle said:
It's both bland and enormous, like every Golf sized hatch on the market. It's the wrong segment to make hot hatches in, I can't believe people don't see this. You want a hot hatch? Pick the smallest and lightest hatch and make it fast and fun. Done. The ONLY reason to make hot hatches out of cars this big is to make them practical and comfortable. How very hot hatch.
I'm hoping for a clear sky tonight so I can get my telescope out.And see if I can find what planet you're on.
Jon_S_Rally said:
It's a great car, but it's not for everyone. There are some things that cars like the Golf just do better, but it also means they are less appealing to the die-hard enthusiast. The sales figures reflect where the market is though, so I don't blame VW for their approach.
Agree with this, but my point was in terms of usability (bar the crap infotainment) I don't see that much of a difference (although accept looks can fall under this category 
. I take it to client meetings and it's always a talking point - nothing negative to date....Mackofthejungle said:
Derek Chevalier said:
Mackofthejungle said:
Ali_T said:
Where's the prestige & pride in owning the single most generic, unimaginative car choice on the planet?
Lets not pretend that there's any imagination or interest in owning any hot hatch currently on the market. It's a bland fest of enormous hatches, so you might as well have the one with decent residuals and a usable infotainment 
system. dandare said:
I'm amazed at people criticising the look of an engine bay. Are these people really so superficial, or joking?
I don't like the look of either car much. I expect the conservatives will choose the VW, and the rest would consider the Renault.
I do prefer Renault as a brand though. They aren't as boring as VW usually are. Each to their own.
Sorry Sir, didn’t realise taking about engine bays was banned. Please accept my apologies. I don't like the look of either car much. I expect the conservatives will choose the VW, and the rest would consider the Renault.
I do prefer Renault as a brand though. They aren't as boring as VW usually are. Each to their own.
I prefer the look/idea of the Renault over the gti (and I own a Golf R) but as it’s an enthusiasts car (supposedly) you’re going to want it with a manual box. Problem: the manual box can only cope with about 295 ft/lb which means no remap is possible. Enthusiasts remap their turbo hatches don’t they? I have.
WJNB said:
Where's the prestige & pride in owning a French Renault?
Surely the Golf has the level of credibility & class that soars above any microscopic differences
Really? Personally I can't think of many cars "images" worse than a Golf. Has to be the BLAAAAAANDEST car on the road by a country mile.Surely the Golf has the level of credibility & class that soars above any microscopic differences
Bought by accounts and dull people only.
nickfrog said:
It's entirely possible to be an enthusiast with an auto box, not that there is an agreed definition of enthusiast anyway. I see plenty on track days for instance.
I'm not knocking people liking autos. I like both, but in every single case the manual is either more fun and/or less annoying than the auto.But as for the commonality, is it the fact they are common now because driving enthusiasts had been campaigning for them, or more the fact that car makers have been moving to more and more automated and autonomous cars. And the automatic transmission is just now the main staple of this, thus more cars have them. And as more of them have them, you simply see more because of this?
macky17 said:
I prefer the look/idea of the Renault over the gti (and I own a Golf R) but as it’s an enthusiasts car (supposedly) you’re going to want it with a manual box. Problem: the manual box can only cope with about 295 ft/lb which means no remap is possible. Enthusiasts remap their turbo hatches don’t they? I have.
VW ditch the manual for similar reasons (one of several), issues with slipping clutches (nothing new) is not a problem with dual clutch autos (wet clutches at least).Instead of spending money on an autobox, spend it on a better clutch. Or try with the stock one and don't overdo the torque, and be prepared to upgrade...
300bhp/ton said:
nickfrog said:
It's entirely possible to be an enthusiast with an auto box, not that there is an agreed definition of enthusiast anyway. I see plenty on track days for instance.
I'm not knocking people liking autos. I like both, but in every single case the manual is either more fun and/or less annoying than the auto.But as for the commonality, is it the fact they are common now because driving enthusiasts had been campaigning for them, or more the fact that car makers have been moving to more and more automated and autonomous cars. And the automatic transmission is just now the main staple of this, thus more cars have them. And as more of them have them, you simply see more because of this?
Soon. Sooner than we think, the manual gearbox will be dead. What a sad day that'll be. I've tried DSG boxes, and I just hate them. Dimwitted in `D` and clinging on for dear life in `S`. Paddles are rubbish, and the novelty wears off after 10 minutes.
I don’t particularly like dsg BUT as I use my car a lot and on motorways the dsg works well with the adaptive cruise but on most fun roads I use the paddles
To me driving fun is about going down a good road and it all flowing together and making good time! The gearbox doesn’t rly make a difference then
To me driving fun is about going down a good road and it all flowing together and making good time! The gearbox doesn’t rly make a difference then
Onehp said:
macky17 said:
I prefer the look/idea of the Renault over the gti (and I own a Golf R) but as it’s an enthusiasts car (supposedly) you’re going to want it with a manual box. Problem: the manual box can only cope with about 295 ft/lb which means no remap is possible. Enthusiasts remap their turbo hatches don’t they? I have.
VW ditch the manual for similar reasons (one of several), issues with slipping clutches (nothing new) is not a problem with dual clutch autos (wet clutches at least).Instead of spending money on an autobox, spend it on a better clutch. Or try with the stock one and don't overdo the torque, and be prepared to upgrade...
I had a Megane RS 250 (lightly modded: remapped to 300hp, refreshed most of suspension setup rears and fronts inc cooksports lowering springs) for 5yrs+ but due to the roads around here deteriorating at an alarming pace along with practically becoming a real PITA, the time came to look elsewhere. Did sell it to a friend just in case :-) So damn cheap to run and maintain to boot, never had to man-maths that one at all.
Back in 2018 I tried the Leon Cupra 300s, Civic Type R, and 308 GTI 270. Ruled new Megane RS mk4 out due to lack of availability, and IMHO they screwed the 1.8T engine compared to the much older generation but rather bulletproof and fire breathing F4RT 2.0.
Ended up with the 308 GTI 270, which is nearly as capable as a Megane RS mk3, but with one big caveat; you really had to drive the damn thing so so hard to get any satisfaction out of it. Let's face it, after a Megane RS Mk3 that was always going to be an issue.
OTOH it was easily the most liveable of the other cars i'd tried - those seats are easily the best in the class and having massage seats in a hot hatch is genius. The boot is ridiculously useful for long trips.
In the end I ended up having an accident in the 308 GTI 270 which did an amazing job of protecting me. Came to the conclusion that after the Mk3 Megane RS that none of the "current" hot hatch crop are going to float my boat, even the very wonderful but holy-s
t-what-were-you-thinking Civic Type-R (which is by far the closest to the Mk3 RS).
Ended up a new Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio with 5yr warranty instead :-D
Conclusion : buy the Mk3 RS if "thrills" is truly your 1st priority in life and look after it. The current crop have been clearly compromised for the masses which is fine if that's what you need.
Back in 2018 I tried the Leon Cupra 300s, Civic Type R, and 308 GTI 270. Ruled new Megane RS mk4 out due to lack of availability, and IMHO they screwed the 1.8T engine compared to the much older generation but rather bulletproof and fire breathing F4RT 2.0.
Ended up with the 308 GTI 270, which is nearly as capable as a Megane RS mk3, but with one big caveat; you really had to drive the damn thing so so hard to get any satisfaction out of it. Let's face it, after a Megane RS Mk3 that was always going to be an issue.
OTOH it was easily the most liveable of the other cars i'd tried - those seats are easily the best in the class and having massage seats in a hot hatch is genius. The boot is ridiculously useful for long trips.
In the end I ended up having an accident in the 308 GTI 270 which did an amazing job of protecting me. Came to the conclusion that after the Mk3 Megane RS that none of the "current" hot hatch crop are going to float my boat, even the very wonderful but holy-s
t-what-were-you-thinking Civic Type-R (which is by far the closest to the Mk3 RS). Ended up a new Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio with 5yr warranty instead :-D
Conclusion : buy the Mk3 RS if "thrills" is truly your 1st priority in life and look after it. The current crop have been clearly compromised for the masses which is fine if that's what you need.
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