Cars that "devalued" the brand...
Discussion
This place really is completely full of bitter old luddites wearing rose tinited spectacles isnt't it 
"Ooh Audi used to be cool in 1984"
"You used to be driven around in a Bentley, now you need a tattoo to have one"
"BMW make cars that people want to buy, how dare they devalue their brand!!1!"
Every thread is the same.
"Ooh Audi used to be cool in 1984"
"You used to be driven around in a Bentley, now you need a tattoo to have one"
"BMW make cars that people want to buy, how dare they devalue their brand!!1!"
Every thread is the same.
ensignia said:
This place really is completely full of bitter old luddites wearing rose tinited spectacles isnt't it
"Ooh Audi used to be cool in 1984"
"You used to be driven around in a Bentley, now you need a tattoo to have one"
"BMW make cars that people want to buy, how dare they devalue their brand!!1!"
Every thread is the same.
Totally agree, always seems to be the same person starting these divisive threads.. just ends up with everyone bashing each others car choices.... seriously who cares! "Ooh Audi used to be cool in 1984"
"You used to be driven around in a Bentley, now you need a tattoo to have one"
"BMW make cars that people want to buy, how dare they devalue their brand!!1!"
Every thread is the same.
Moving out of it's traditional market place doesn't in itself constitute devaluing the brand. In many cases expanding the brand into new markets, even if they are at lower price points, has transformed the size and profitability of the makers and in some cases even secured their survival.
Boxster and to some degree Cayenne were derided by Porsche traditionalists, but look how successful the company is now compared with the early 1990s.
The BL Mini was only ever sold in significant numbers in the home market and only ever at a budget price. The BMW Mini is sold all over the world at premium prices.
BMW, Mercedes and from a slightly different starting point Audi, have evolved from being makers of large and expensive cars to ones that offer a product for almost everyone. I don't think a 7 series buyer is troubled by the existence of a 118d, any more than a 70s S Class buyer was bothered about being met with a 240d taxi, and the cars continue to be highly in demand at all price levels. Of course, you're no longer able to rely on one to demonstrate how individual and interesting you are however, you'll have to rely on your personality to do that!
The ones that DID devalue the brand were those that attempted to move into cheaper price points and failed to gain acceptance. The X-Type wasn't a bad car as initially launched: the V6 AWD models drove really well and retro was in fashion with the Beetle and Mini launched around the same time. In that form it was ideal for the USA who wouldn't care about the fuel economy and wouldn't notice the awful interior quality. Unfortunately the UK market at the time demanded fuel economy and the diesel engines necessary to deliver it threw out the bits of the car that made it special.
For the CitiRover, there was no defence other than absolute desperation!
Boxster and to some degree Cayenne were derided by Porsche traditionalists, but look how successful the company is now compared with the early 1990s.
The BL Mini was only ever sold in significant numbers in the home market and only ever at a budget price. The BMW Mini is sold all over the world at premium prices.
BMW, Mercedes and from a slightly different starting point Audi, have evolved from being makers of large and expensive cars to ones that offer a product for almost everyone. I don't think a 7 series buyer is troubled by the existence of a 118d, any more than a 70s S Class buyer was bothered about being met with a 240d taxi, and the cars continue to be highly in demand at all price levels. Of course, you're no longer able to rely on one to demonstrate how individual and interesting you are however, you'll have to rely on your personality to do that!
The ones that DID devalue the brand were those that attempted to move into cheaper price points and failed to gain acceptance. The X-Type wasn't a bad car as initially launched: the V6 AWD models drove really well and retro was in fashion with the Beetle and Mini launched around the same time. In that form it was ideal for the USA who wouldn't care about the fuel economy and wouldn't notice the awful interior quality. Unfortunately the UK market at the time demanded fuel economy and the diesel engines necessary to deliver it threw out the bits of the car that made it special.
For the CitiRover, there was no defence other than absolute desperation!
Gio G said:
ensignia said:
This place really is completely full of bitter old luddites wearing rose tinited spectacles isnt't it
"Ooh Audi used to be cool in 1984"
"You used to be driven around in a Bentley, now you need a tattoo to have one"
"BMW make cars that people want to buy, how dare they devalue their brand!!1!"
Every thread is the same.
Totally agree, always seems to be the same person starting these divisive threads.. just ends up with everyone bashing each others car choices.... seriously who cares! "Ooh Audi used to be cool in 1984"
"You used to be driven around in a Bentley, now you need a tattoo to have one"
"BMW make cars that people want to buy, how dare they devalue their brand!!1!"
Every thread is the same.
Bentley drivers have always driven themselves.
You are confusing Bentley with Rolls Royce.
What about features of a car that devalue the brand?
For this I nominate the fake exhaust tip..
Some can look quite real even if it just a plastic shroud hiding a smaller exhaust such as the triangular shaped exhaust shroud hiding a smaller circular exhaust pipe on the later Corsa VXR. These I don't really have an issue with but cars like the W205 C class and the Audi SQ5 are just god awful! It's just chrome effect plastic with a black plastic inner. For me, this sort of thing devalues a brand much more than Porsche or Lamborghini releasing an SUV ever could.
The SQ5 especially must be a £40k+ car so would think that a chav looking fake exhaust tip would be the last thing on the designers mind.
For this I nominate the fake exhaust tip..
Some can look quite real even if it just a plastic shroud hiding a smaller exhaust such as the triangular shaped exhaust shroud hiding a smaller circular exhaust pipe on the later Corsa VXR. These I don't really have an issue with but cars like the W205 C class and the Audi SQ5 are just god awful! It's just chrome effect plastic with a black plastic inner. For me, this sort of thing devalues a brand much more than Porsche or Lamborghini releasing an SUV ever could.
The SQ5 especially must be a £40k+ car so would think that a chav looking fake exhaust tip would be the last thing on the designers mind.
Iamnotkloot said:
Surprised no-one has mentioned the Rolls Royce Cullinan. Saw my first one in the flesh the other day; truly gopping. It looked like a pope mobile from the rear, it was so tall vs the width.
I thought RR represented elegance?
Apparently it's a phenomenal thing to ride in. I thought RR represented elegance?
Wooda80 said:
The BL Mini was only ever sold in significant numbers in the home market and only ever at a budget price. The BMW Mini is sold all over the world at premium prices.
You sure you're not getting it mixed up with the Metro? That was the 'British Car To Beat The World' which the rest of the world looked at and went "Nope, thanks...". With the curious exception of the French who really liked it by non-French car standards. Especially the later Rover version. Something like 80% of total Metro production stayed in the UK. The Mini was a solid global success. Depending on the year, between 60 and 40% of annual production in the UK was exported between 1960 and 1985 and the Mini was built by BMC/BL subsidiaries and licencees in Australia, South Africa, Spain, Belgium, Italy, Portugal, Venezuela, Yugoslavia and some other South American countries.
In its later years the UK wasn't even the Mini's biggest market - in the 1990s it was kept viable almost entirely by demand from Japan which took about 30% of total production each year. And as for 'only ever at a budget price'...by 1995 you could buy a Mini in Japan that cost more than a Porsche 911 thanks to supply/demand and some very heavily-loaded local variations cooked up by the Japan importer. And all the special editions and Coopers in the 1990s were hardly cheap!
Iamnotkloot said:
Surprised no-one has mentioned the Rolls Royce Cullinan. Saw my first one in the flesh the other day; truly gopping. It looked like a pope mobile from the rear, it was so tall vs the width.
I thought RR represented elegance?
Never understood the pearl-clutching about the Cullinan, as if Rolls-Royce hasn't been known for making brash, OTT, extravagent wheeled status symbols for the very-rich-and-proud-of-it market since about 1910. Considering that one of their most famous models, and the origin of their corporate naming scheme is a car with an 11-foot wheelbase made from polished aluminium and silver-plate! Not to mention what the likes of the Maharajas of India and various oil-rich sultans and sheiks have done to Rolls-Royces for decades. I thought RR represented elegance?
R-R has been nothing but showy, big-scale land-yachts with massive Greek Temple-grilles and ridiculous bonnet mascots for a century or so. The Cullinan is absolutely in keeping with the company's brand values.
Edited by 2xChevrons on Thursday 4th April 19:48
DoctorX said:
dme123 said:
Hard to think of anything further from the engineering lead, powerplant centric Jaguar of old that a front wheel drive X-Type with a 2 litre 4 pot diesel, and McPherson struts so the X-Type is in with a good shout.
For me personally the newer Civics with their s
tty beam axles detract heavily from Hondas reputation for taking pride in their engineering, and if Mercedes weren't already so far gone I'd say the same for the A-Class hatchbacks with a similarly crap setup.
These fking things still offend me.
I bloody hate those headlights.For me personally the newer Civics with their s
tty beam axles detract heavily from Hondas reputation for taking pride in their engineering, and if Mercedes weren't already so far gone I'd say the same for the A-Class hatchbacks with a similarly crap setup.These f
king things still offend me.
Red 4 said:
All cynically badged modern Rovers and MG.
If you're talking about the "Chinese" MG stuff then I would agree but I think that the ZR/ZS/ZT were all sufficiently "sporty" enough to merit the MG badge over their Rover counterparts IMHO. I'm not getting the "hate" for the X-Type. Brands like Jaguar/Rover in times of financial hardship need to do the best they can with the tools at their disposal or just let the brand die. Jaguar weren't going to be able to carry on just making XJs and XKs and desperately needed to compete in the small executive class to survive but the only small executive-sized platform available to them was a FWD Ford platform and I don't think that the X-Type was a bad effort under the circumstances. A nicer car than the Mondeo it was based on, maybe not quite as sweet a handler as the 3-Series but on a par with the Rover 75 at least (itself a pretty decent car) and remember even the 3-Series probably sold in biggest numbers with a 4-pot diesel under the bonnet. My friend owns two X-Types (a saloon and an estate) and is well into the Jaguar "brand". I tease him that he doesn't drive a proper Jaguar but in all fairness, it's a pretty decent car and being a musician, he doesn't really fit the UKIP-supporting stereotype! I think that Jaguar should have got into the 3-Series market sooner to be honest and could have maybe done a bit more with the platform i.e. a coupe and cabriolet version and the long gap between the X-Type and XE was unfortunate but the X-Type probably saved the company and allowed them to develop a dedicated RWD platform next time around more befitting of the brand. One might also argue that the mk1 Freelander was a little rough around the edges but certainly broadened the appeal and accessibility of the Land Rover brand, similarly reviving that company and the Freelander 2 was a much more polished effort.
Sow what if a certain model made loads of money for a car manufacturer - doesn't stop me or others hating it and feeling that the brand has become less desirable, often on a volume basis.
These days (certainly in the southeast for example) it seems everyone thinks it's their right to lease a 40K or over car regardless of whether living within their means, we do love our "premium" motors over here.
These days (certainly in the southeast for example) it seems everyone thinks it's their right to lease a 40K or over car regardless of whether living within their means, we do love our "premium" motors over here.
white_goodman said:
Red 4 said:
All cynically badged modern Rovers and MG.
If you're talking about the "Chinese" MG stuff then I would agree but I think that the ZR/ZS/ZT were all sufficiently "sporty" enough to merit the MG badge over their Rover counterparts IMHO. But now I come to think of it MG did a reasonable job of destroying their own brand with the last MGBs.
Utter s
te.The Rovers you mention were OK I suppose but more of a trim level than anything else.
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