Cars that "devalued" the brand...

[Meridius]

rossub said:

Financially yes, but personally I dislike what they have become. Audi were cool in the 80s and 90s. Now they are anything but.

What did Audi have in the 80s? The Quattro? Thats it. Everything else Audi 80s and 90s were absolute blandmobiles, there wasnt much of a brand to devalue. Audi has built their brand on everything they've made in the 21st century.

[rossub]

ensignia said:

This place really is completely full of bitter old luddites wearing rose tinited spectacles isnt't it

"Ooh Audi used to be cool in 1984"

"You used to be driven around in a Bentley, now you need a tattoo to have one"

"BMW make cars that people want to buy, how dare they devalue their brand!!1!"

Every thread is the same.

... and every thread has people saying how great German cars are :yawn:

[rossub]

Meridius said:

What did Audi have in the 80s? The Quattro? Thats it. Everything else Audi 80s and 90s were absolute blandmobiles, there wasnt much of a brand to devalue. Audi has built their brand on everything they've made in the 21st century.

Nobody disliked Audi as a brand before they became ‘common’. Plenty of people do now though.

[Whatsmyname]

Rampant consumerism, access to finance cheap money and people using their house as an ATM surely has devalued most brands.

[Red 4]

Meridius said:

What did Audi have in the 80s? The Quattro? Thats it. Everything else Audi 80s and 90s were absolute blandmobiles, there wasnt much of a brand to devalue. Audi has built their brand on everything they've made in the 21st century.

Nonsense.

Audi started to really establish themselves in the 90s.

S models, TT, etc etc - building on the back of their success in the 80s.

Jeez, some people don't know anything

[southerndriver]

Cadillac Cimarron is one of the most notorious in the US.

Plus the Chevrolet Citation and its X-car cousins (numerous reliability problems)
Chevrolet Vega (engine and paint problems to name a few)

[Coilspring]

rossub said:

Nobody disliked Audi as a brand before they became ‘common’. Plenty of people do now though.

Until the rallying success of the quattro, and its following surge of sales, audi was a brand that was purchased by relatively few people. It did not have the prestige label, or a range of vehicles that appeal to such a wide range as it does now.

Prior to the quattro it was regarded as an expensive "foreign brand", that required a certain bravery to buy, new or secondhand.

It became a popular brand virtually overnight, and like them or not, has built on that turning point.

[Court_S]

Turbotechnic said:

Chris Bangle designed BMW’s

I think they’ve actually got better with age. I hated his 6 series when it came out, but quite like it now. The E60 has aged really well too to my eyes at least.

The 2 series active tourer is a monstrosity though. There’s a special place in hell for whoever signed that off.

I think most high end brands are a bit devalued these days due to availability and being pretty common. I remember walking past a really nice 993 on the way to school and it really stood out and was pretty rare but a 911 is pretty common these days.

[flatso]

Harris_I said:

white_goodman said:

Original Mercedes A-Class - the engineering seemed quite clever on paper but in reality it was a rather odd-looking, gutless, thirsty, uncomfortable, unreliable, badly built and harsh-riding piece of crap. I can find redeeming features in most cars but having run one as a company car for a year, this would be the exception. It seems like the A-Class has finally morphed into a pretty decent car but Mercedes really messed up the first time, whereas BMW/Audi did a far better job of distilling their brand values into a smaller package with the 1-Series/A2/A3.

Oddly I have the opposite view. Agree it's not everyone's cup of tea, but an unusual and interesting design, I wish more car manufacturers would take risks with design.

A lot of space in a small footprint. Very clever engine/cabin packaging - it may possibly have avoided fatalities when my father had a heavy frontal impact at high speed. The engine slid under the passenger compartment and the car was a write off but 4 people emerged from the car in one piece. (He wasn't conducting an elk test, in case you were wondering).

Ride is sensitive to wheel size. We've had both big and small wheels, and the former are terrible, but the latter makes it a pleasant enough (if unexciting) steer.

I've been looking at cars from my learner driver daughter and the old A-class seems to be a really sensible first time car: small, lots of visibility, easy to see the corners, safe, has a feeling of solidity other first time learner cars don't have (like her current Peugeot 207). What's not to like?

The current A-class seems inoffensively bland and undifferentiated from the rest of a saturated market.

The second generation (W 169 starting in 2005) resolved a lot of the faults of the first one (mainly bad build quality). The car was built by engineers, and it functions extremely well in the city and for what it was meant to do. The interior space is nothing short of incredible, the visibility is faultless, the exterior dimensions are very parking friendly, I struggle to find a city car that does this better. My wife drives the even worst screwed together Vaneo (1st gen A-Klasse with raised roof and rear sliding doors) , it looks horrible, the ride is rough, but in a city with tight roads and even tighter parking spots, 2 small babies and necessary equipment (baby carriages, small bikes, shopping etc), nothing comes close to the practicality. I have been looking for a replacement but cannot find anything so we will drive it into the grave.

Buy your daughter the second gen, with a nice turbo petrol 4, she will love it.

[1430]

every jap car around around 2000

Celia gt four > gen7 celica fwd ugly and slow
gen2 mr2 turbo > gen3 slower with gay styling
no supra?
evo and impreza both got uglier
mazda rx7, beautiful > rx8 slow and hideous

The r34 skyline looks great though they can have that one.

[E65Ross]

DoubleD said:

rossub said:

Audi

A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, A8
Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4, Q5, Q6, Q7, Q8

Basically all of them since circa 1994.

And yet Audi are in a better place than they have ever been.

Agreed. He also missed the R8 which, clearly, has devalued the brand. As has the RS4/6. Not sure if he includes the RS2 as well...?

[blueg33]

Lotus Elise. Cheap sports car, prior to that Lotus made cars that were priced nearer Ferrari - i think.

Doesnt mean the Elise wasn't superb, plus it probably saved Lotus.

Happy to be proven wrong

[IanH755]

For me it was the Porsche Boxster, because it used to be quite rare to see "supercar" like a Porsche or Lambo or Ferrari etc, and now every 3rd car is a bloody Porsche so, for me, that mass market has made them more like a "premium" Audi etc than a the Porsche of old.

[Burgerbob]

The A3, 1 series (3 series compact) and A class were all designed to make the brands appeal to a wider market but at the same time made the brands lose some of their aspirational desire. None are specifically bad cars, but marked a change in the perception of the brands.

BMW used to market itself as the ultimate driving machine, with TV adverts about 50/50 weight balance, unsprung weight etc and it was proud of being all RWD. It was an engineering led brand. It then cashed in on the status it created by making ideal company cars and FWD cars.

Peugeot whilst never a premium brand was once well respected. But the 206 replacement for the 205 started a downward trend of bloated hatches that people liked to slag off. The current crop of cars are pretty good, but their brand reputation has not recovered yet so people don't realise.

But the best example of cars that devalued the brand were probably made by British Leyland and wore Triumph, MG, Rover, Austin etc badges.

[Colonel D]

Baldchap said:

M-Sport, AMG/Brabus as trim levels, R Line and so on.

But, they sell in bigger numbers than the real things. I just can't get on board with it and anyone who tells me they drive a BMW M Sport instantly gets mentally filed in the appropriate drawer...

first answer I agree with here, the rest are on about cost cutting. AMG and M-Sport being the worst at the moment. Every single car plastered in badges of what were rare prestigious cars. That's not saying the real deal AMG or BMW M cars are bad but it is diluting the brand

[mintybiscuit]

[J4CKO]

Colonel D said:

Baldchap said:

M-Sport, AMG/Brabus as trim levels, R Line and so on.

But, they sell in bigger numbers than the real things. I just can't get on board with it and anyone who tells me they drive a BMW M Sport instantly gets mentally filed in the appropriate drawer...

first answer I agree with here, the rest are on about cost cutting. AMG and M-Sport being the worst at the moment. Every single car plastered in badges of what were rare prestigious cars. That's not saying the real deal AMG or BMW M cars are bad but it is diluting the brand

Rare doesnt make massive, global, multi billion car companies much money.

[Colonel D]

J4CKO said:

Rare doesnt make massive, global, multi billion car companies much money.

No it doesn't, no one said it did, I said the plastering of badges on normal models dilutes the prestige cars. More of the brand name, but in terms of actual manufacturers diluting the brand there isn't any really. To me that would mean Ferrari releasing budget friendly cars in order to boost sales. Porsche and Lamborghini are not quite there as their monstrosities (Cayanne, Panamera, Urus) are not cheap.

[300bhp/ton]

IanH755 said:

For me it was the Porsche Boxster, because it used to be quite rare to see "supercar" like a Porsche or Lambo or Ferrari etc, and now every 3rd car is a bloody Porsche so, for me, that mass market has made them more like a "premium" Audi etc than a the Porsche of old.

Really????

[Burgerbob]

Colonel D said:

Baldchap said:

M-Sport, AMG/Brabus as trim levels, R Line and so on.

But, they sell in bigger numbers than the real things. I just can't get on board with it and anyone who tells me they drive a BMW M Sport instantly gets mentally filed in the appropriate drawer...

first answer I agree with here, the rest are on about cost cutting. AMG and M-Sport being the worst at the moment. Every single car plastered in badges of what were rare prestigious cars. That's not saying the real deal AMG or BMW M cars are bad but it is diluting the brand

Unfortunately all the manufacturers do this now. I used to have a Leon FR and was of the view that it was a better looking but cheaper Golf GTI. But then they started selling the FR with a 1.4 engine and made it a trim level.

Ford do the ST-line, Peugeot the GT-line, VW the R-line etc.

It serves the market for people that want a sporty looking car, but for price / tax reasons don't want the performance to match.