RE: McLaren 720S Spider meets Alpine A110 Pure

[Iamnotkloot]

leglessAlex said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This is it. The 488 has better tone but still very little volume, the new Aston DBS is similar to my ears. 911 Turbos are straight up quiet.

That was somewhat the context of my statement, it doesn't sound too bad versus it's main peer, the 488. Really the only car in this segment that does have the 'right' sound to my ears is the Huracan.

The Ferrari 812 superfast is the closest you can get to a McLaren F1 engine. Surely, this is the kind of engine a top spec McLaren should have. It sounds very special too.

[jason61c]

I’d love that alpine. Lovely little things, so much prettier in the flesh also.

Have zero desire for that mclaren. Never before had such speed looked so sterile.

[E65Ross]

Iamnotkloot said:

leglessAlex said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This is it. The 488 has better tone but still very little volume, the new Aston DBS is similar to my ears. 911 Turbos are straight up quiet.

That was somewhat the context of my statement, it doesn't sound too bad versus it's main peer, the 488. Really the only car in this segment that does have the 'right' sound to my ears is the Huracan.

The Ferrari 812 superfast is the closest you can get to a McLaren F1 engine. Surely, this is the kind of engine a top spec McLaren should have. It sounds very special too.

I agree. The engine in the 812 is just magnificent. I suspect the budget for McLaren developing an engine isn't there though. But who knows! It's a shame as I don't think it'll ever happen.

[Mackofthejungle]

I'd genuinely have the Alpine given the choice of an X month loan.

Ride quality is so often brushed under the carpet in modern car reviews, with people banging on about body control and flat cornering as if they're the be-all and end-all. A car that you can attack our B roads in without fear of holes and tramlining.... so, so desirable. You don't want to go fast - fast on the road is just not on anymore; there are too many people out there, and the standards of driving are definitely dropping, as are the speeds people are doing. A small, light, economical, comfortable, delicate, quick and unassuming car for 40 grand?! It's a fking bargain. The McLaren exists in another plane now, and it's one I'm not particularly interested in....it's all a little willy-waving and ego-driven.

[leglessAlex]

E65Ross said:

Iamnotkloot said:

leglessAlex said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This is it. The 488 has better tone but still very little volume, the new Aston DBS is similar to my ears. 911 Turbos are straight up quiet.

That was somewhat the context of my statement, it doesn't sound too bad versus it's main peer, the 488. Really the only car in this segment that does have the 'right' sound to my ears is the Huracan.

The Ferrari 812 superfast is the closest you can get to a McLaren F1 engine. Surely, this is the kind of engine a top spec McLaren should have. It sounds very special too.

I agree. The engine in the 812 is just magnificent. I suspect the budget for McLaren developing an engine isn't there though. But who knows! It's a shame as I don't think it'll ever happen.

Ferrari V12s are indeed wonderful, wonderful engines. They're one of the few companies left making howling, naturally aspirated motors aren't they?

I'm sure it is a budget issue, but then it always has been. The F1's engine, while McLaren spec, was actually built by BMW wasn't it? Anyway, I guess there's no point in talking too much about the hows and the whys as it won't happen, but damn it would be nice if it did. Even if they were to get an engine designed, no idea who on earth would be able to do it for them. AMG already supply Engines to Pagani and Aston, Ferrari would never even consider sharing an engine outside of Italy. BMW's V10 has gone and their V12 is turbocharged. Audi have the V10 which is a gorgeous engine, but they already use it in a competitor, the Huracan.

[E65Ross]

Mackofthejungle said:

The McLaren exists in another plane now, and it's one I'm not particularly interested in....it's all a little willy-waving and ego-driven.

Having met 2 McLaren owners and been in 2 cars, I strongly disagree with this. Maybe for some, but it's definitely not the case for all.

Do you give that sentiment to any supercar? If so, where do you draw the line? What about a Huracan? Or an R8? Is the R8 on the border of being willy-waving, perhaps?

[Cacatous]

leglessAlex said:

Ferrari V12s are indeed wonderful, wonderful engines. They're one of the few companies left making howling, naturally aspirated motors aren't they?

I'm sure it is a budget issue, but then it always has been. The F1's engine, while McLaren spec, was actually built by BMW wasn't it? Anyway, I guess there's no point in talking too much about the hows and the whys as it won't happen, but damn it would be nice if it did. Even if they were to get an engine designed, no idea who on earth would be able to do it for them. AMG already supply Engines to Pagani and Aston, Ferrari would never even consider sharing an engine outside of Italy. BMW's V10 has gone and their V12 is turbocharged. Audi have the V10 which is a gorgeous engine, but they already use it in a competitor, the Huracan.

I'm sure Lexus would love to help out

Can you imagine the Lexus V10 in a McLaren 720 (mechanical issues and emissions notwithstanding)?

[E65Ross]

Cacatous said:

leglessAlex said:

Ferrari V12s are indeed wonderful, wonderful engines. They're one of the few companies left making howling, naturally aspirated motors aren't they?

I'm sure it is a budget issue, but then it always has been. The F1's engine, while McLaren spec, was actually built by BMW wasn't it? Anyway, I guess there's no point in talking too much about the hows and the whys as it won't happen, but damn it would be nice if it did. Even if they were to get an engine designed, no idea who on earth would be able to do it for them. AMG already supply Engines to Pagani and Aston, Ferrari would never even consider sharing an engine outside of Italy. BMW's V10 has gone and their V12 is turbocharged. Audi have the V10 which is a gorgeous engine, but they already use it in a competitor, the Huracan.

I'm sure Lexus would love to help out

Can you imagine the Lexus V10 in a McLaren 720 (mechanical issues and emissions notwithstanding)?

[sideways man]

Here’s hoping the Alpine will depreciate like a normal Renault, so in 5 years I’ll be able to afford one

[Kolbenkopp]

Same hope but looking at the fairly limited numbers they build I think it's not going to happen. Time will tell...

[Bob-2146]

sideways man said:

Here’s hoping the Alpine will depreciate like a normal Renault, so in 5 years I’ll be able to afford one

Yep, as always is the Renault’s Achilles heel. They are doing all they can to avoid this and paying off the press but tell that to Canute, you can only manage a supply chain for so long before market values eventually return to equilibrium (=crash). Will be a bargain buy in the 2nd hand market in a couple of years though, for sure.

[bcr5784]

Bob-2146 said:

Yep, as always is the Renault’s Achilles heel.

Have you seen the secondhand values of Renault Sport models? - clearly not. You will find that old examples hold the their (relative) value at least as well Boxsters of a similar age.

[GM182]

Great article.
My stepfather has an Alpine and a 570s spider. Okay that's not a 720s but no prizes for guessing which one he drives and enjoys more. It's not the McLaren.

He's always had premium sports/supercars but the Alpine has completely won him over as it's just so useable.

[Kolbenkopp]

Bob-2146 said:

Will be a bargain buy in the 2nd hand market in a couple of years though, for sure.

Would hope you are right out of pure self-interest, but numbers wise, if they stick to their plan of around 3000 units per year, A110 bargains don't look likely. Same story with the 4C or the Elise. All niche appeal and somewhat flawed, but with so few new cars entering the market... To some extent even applies to the Boxster / Cayman, and that's with Porsche building roughly 10 times as many. 10 year old cars are around 40% of list over here (Germany) -- (un)fortunately also pretty solid...

The real game changer could be electrification. If that made ICE cars really unattractive to non-petrolheads much quicker than expected?

[Prestonese]

Bob-2146 said:

sideways man said:

Here’s hoping the Alpine will depreciate like a normal Renault, so in 5 years I’ll be able to afford one

Yep, as always is the Renault’s Achilles heel. They are doing all they can to avoid this and paying off the press but tell that to Canute, you can only manage a supply chain for so long before market values eventually return to equilibrium (=crash). Will be a bargain buy in the 2nd hand market in a couple of years though, for sure.

They are not doing anything differently to some of the major brands so you'd have to apply the same cynicism most of the mainstream car industry. Porsche for instance ensures every single variation of the 911 gets tested by all the journals to the point you are made to believe there are no alternatives. Alpine only has one car on offer so I think it would be more unusual if they weren't pushing the marketing hard. That said, if you have dealt with the Alpine machine first hand (ask all the owners on here), you would not believe it was possible to run any sort of campaign at all let alone have the press in their back pocket.

If you check the industry price guides, you will already see that the A110 residuals are expected to be amongst the best in the market. That is what the professionals say but what do they know heh? It certainly stacks up given the production volumes and positive feedback received so far.

[lukeyman]

Insouciance?

[defonsecca]

Both incredible cars & I particularly love the Alpine. They've got the looks, handing, performance.... but, like the above post says, I also find it v frustrating they both lack an essential ingredient - engine noise & soul. Having owned a couple of Alfa GTV 3.0 V6's in years gone by it really does make a big difference to the enjoyment of a performance car. I'm sure you can get / will be able to get a decent after-market sports exhaust for the Alpine which will certainly improve the noise at least.

I guess I am nit-picking & it certainly wouldn't put me off. I'd still give my left arm for an Alpine.

Edited by defonsecca on Sunday 7th April 23:36

[leakymanifold]

kambites said:

E65Ross said:

Iamnotkloot said:

McLaren should just put the original Mac F1 power plant in the 720 and be done with it!

Whilst it sounds lovely, I'm not sure it'd be feasible to do this.

Quite. Good luck getting that lump EU6 compliant!

Cosworth are on the other line, shall i put them on?

[E65Ross]

leakymanifold said:

kambites said:

E65Ross said:

Iamnotkloot said:

McLaren should just put the original Mac F1 power plant in the 720 and be done with it!

Whilst it sounds lovely, I'm not sure it'd be feasible to do this.

Quite. Good luck getting that lump EU6 compliant!

Cosworth are on the other line, shall i put them on?

I'm not that that would be in line with "the original Mac F1 power plant" but that certainly would be nice! Not sure McLaren have the budget....though who knows.

[Onehp]

GM182 said:

Great article.
My stepfather has an Alpine and a 570s spider. Okay that's not a 720s but no prizes for guessing which one he drives and enjoys more. It's not the McLaren.

He's always had premium sports/supercars but the Alpine has completely won him over as it's just so useable.

Good point in the original article about parking and, more so, leaving the car unattended. Makes the Alpine a lot more attractive as a car to... use...