RE: Diesel replaces V8 in new Audi S6 and S7
Discussion
Stu08 said:
culpz said:
"Just when it looked like diesel might have died a death as far as performance cars are concerned, Audi - and, by extension, Volkswagen - have made it clear that they still see life at the end of the oil-burning tunnel".
There isn't though, is there? Not really, anyway. Diesel can make more sense for these big, heavy German cars but surely any success with these models is going to be short-lived? Petrol hybrids are the obvious next step before full electrification and won't be a part of the ban in 2030. Hybrid diesels though?
The best thing that can happen for VWG here would be for these to be a massive sales flop. Or for the legislation to change that hybrid diesels will be okay for a while. I just can't see it though.
I'd say Audi have more knowledge than most of us on PH regarding upcoming markets, regulations etc. If they are investing in this tech. there is a calculated and strategic decision in doing this. They have some pretty smart people working for them who have more facts than most of us have guesses on the direction of the car industry.There isn't though, is there? Not really, anyway. Diesel can make more sense for these big, heavy German cars but surely any success with these models is going to be short-lived? Petrol hybrids are the obvious next step before full electrification and won't be a part of the ban in 2030. Hybrid diesels though?
The best thing that can happen for VWG here would be for these to be a massive sales flop. Or for the legislation to change that hybrid diesels will be okay for a while. I just can't see it though.
article said:
Audi rather confusingly calls it ‘dual supercharging’
Well, it is. A turbocharger is a turbine-driven supercharger to give it its full name. And the EPC is an electrically-driven supercharger.
So they are both forms of supercharger hence "dual supercharging".
Those pesky Germans and their factually-correct terms. How confusing!
(Edited for typo)
Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Friday 12th April 10:35
nickfrog said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
Its a shiny audi with an S6 badge and that's all that matters in next door neighbour one up man ship
I never had a neighbour who gave a s
t what car I had nor met anyone who gives a st what their neighbour thinks. I think it ranks quite low in the list of reasons to buy.wormus said:
Ares said:
Because Wormus says you shouldn't. 
Don't you dare have your own opinion!! You cannot be considered a car fan, and certainly not have a 'warm model' badge on your car if you drive a diesel, irrespective of your mileage and circumstances. You should buy an 15yr old MX5 and bask in it's gloriousness.
If you can afford to spend that much on a car, you can normally afford the fuel to put in it. Aldi know most of these will be leased so they make them cheaper for the renters. What other reason can there be to produce such a monstrosity?Don't you dare have your own opinion!! You cannot be considered a car fan, and certainly not have a 'warm model' badge on your car if you drive a diesel, irrespective of your mileage and circumstances. You should buy an 15yr old MX5 and bask in it's gloriousness.
ks 
wormus said:
Ares said:
What absolute bks
Really? How many luxury cars like Rolls Royce or performance cars like Ferrari run on diesel? ks Audi make fleet fodder and the boss in charge of fixing photocopiers can now drive the S6.
But the 'b
ks' element was the assertion/insinuation that anyone that can afford such a car can afford fuel regardless/is unconcerned with fuel consumption. Have you ever made a post without immature stereotypes in? Or have you recently been turned down for a photocopier repair management position?
Ares said:
How many Rolls Royces and Ferraris compete with a warm Audi saloon?
But the 'bks' element was the assertion/insinuation that anyone that can afford such a car can afford fuel regardless/is unconcerned with fuel consumption.
Have you ever made a post without immature stereotypes in? Or have you recently been turned down for a photocopier repair management position?
My point is it’s an expensive car and in my example using the extreme case of the Rolls Royce, people who can afford to buy the car don’t normally care what fuel it runs on. Most of these will be leased either personally or by a fleet which is why they are more likely to be diesel. In simple words, the average renter will be able to afford £500/month to drive the car but they cannot afford the same on fuel.But the 'b
ks' element was the assertion/insinuation that anyone that can afford such a car can afford fuel regardless/is unconcerned with fuel consumption. Have you ever made a post without immature stereotypes in? Or have you recently been turned down for a photocopier repair management position?
What other logical reason is there for turning one of their performance models into a Sooter?
As for your comment about stereotypes, cars are sold into markets by stereotyping their average buyer. In this case a man with pointy shoes and a blue suit called Gavin.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 12th April 13:14
wormus said:
Ares said:
How many Rolls Royces and Ferraris compete with a warm Audi saloon?
But the 'bks' element was the assertion/insinuation that anyone that can afford such a car can afford fuel regardless/is unconcerned with fuel consumption.
Have you ever made a post without immature stereotypes in? Or have you recently been turned down for a photocopier repair management position?
My point is it’s an expensive car and in my example using the extreme case of the Rolls Royce, people who can afford to buy the car don’t normally care what fuel it runs on. But the 'b
ks' element was the assertion/insinuation that anyone that can afford such a car can afford fuel regardless/is unconcerned with fuel consumption. Have you ever made a post without immature stereotypes in? Or have you recently been turned down for a photocopier repair management position?
ks.Why do you think people bought diesel Bentleys? Part cost, part range.
But even more with a mid-market Audi, people do look at running costs - why else do people spend as much on a top spec BMW diesel as an 'M' car costs? Or buy a 335d instead of a 340i?
wormus said:
As for your comment about stereotypes, cars are sold into markets by stereotyping their average buyer. In this case a man with pointy shoes and a blue suit called Gavin.
Edited by wormus on Friday 12th April 13:14
mrclav said:
I think the "bring down average CO2" theory posted above makes a lot of sense.
On another note I'm curious to know what the two black rectangles either side of the four rings logo at the front are?
Ugly, is what they are.On another note I'm curious to know what the two black rectangles either side of the four rings logo at the front are?
No consideration in the design to attempt to hide them, instead they've made the grille look like some sort of undercover police car.
wormus said:
Really? How many luxury cars like Rolls Royce or performance cars like Ferrari run on diesel?
Audi make fleet fodder and the boss in charge of fixing photocopiers can now drive the S6.
The S6 is closer to costing £0 than costing the same as a Ferrari or Rolls Royce. Completely different markets. A few cars more luxurious than an A6 with diesel power though. Maserati Quatroporte, Merc S Class, BMW 750d.Audi make fleet fodder and the boss in charge of fixing photocopiers can now drive the S6.
And so what if the boss of fixing photocopiers can now drive an S6? Well done to them if they can. You just sound like you have a chip on your shoulder
wormus said:
My point is it’s an expensive car and in my example using the extreme case of the Rolls Royce, people who can afford to buy the car don’t normally care what fuel it runs on. Most of these will be leased either personally or by a fleet which is why they are more likely to be diesel. In simple words, the average renter will be able to afford £500/month to drive the car but they cannot afford the same on fuel.
What other logical reason is there for turning one of their performance models into a Sooter?
As for your comment about stereotypes, cars are sold into markets by stereotyping their average buyer. In this case a man with pointy shoes and a blue suit called Gavin.
Fuel is such a small cost compared to the cost of obtaining a car (leased, bought whatever) like this so I really don't see what you're getting at. Having just run a leased S5 for two years (15k miles per year) I know the fuel was a lot cheaper than the lease (about half the cost of the car). But my point is if it had had this engine in instead it would have saved a grand or two, not really a differentiating factor as to whether the lease is worthwhile or not.What other logical reason is there for turning one of their performance models into a Sooter?
As for your comment about stereotypes, cars are sold into markets by stereotyping their average buyer. In this case a man with pointy shoes and a blue suit called Gavin.
Edited by wormus on Friday 12th April 13:14
You're basically using the diesel thing as a stick to bat company car drivers or leasers with (for whatever reason you don't like them) when actually it's Audi who have made a decision probably based on the fact the old cars were white elephants and so had to change to be viable. Only issue I have with the whole situation on a logical level is it's a shame that it doesn't have the V8 diesel and proper exhausts. Yes in my opinion the car is more desirable with a 450hp petrol engine but I would have the RS4 for that price of car anyway, so the S6 has to carve a new niche since they hardly sold any of the last one.
Oh and the very few people I have seen driving and S6 have normally been men not wearing suits in their 50s or older. Gavin would probably have the RS4 for a similar amount of money like most of us would.
wormus said:
the average renter will be able to afford £500/month to drive the car but they cannot afford the same on fuel.
How do you know ? Any data ?You've got to get this correlation between leasing and being stretched financially out of your head. It can be quite the opposite if the cost of leasing is less than depreciation, which is often the case.
Harry H said:
aaron_2000 said:
I love a quick diesel, but what's so special about this? They have the 4.0 V8 diesel that would've been great for this. I'd be really into it if it wasn't an S car, but as an S car it just leaves me a little too cold.
Exactly. It's wasn't long ago that an S6 V10 was famed for having a Lambo engine( even though it didn't). It's now been reduced to a V6 Diesel. Just wrong.Because everyone wants a big barge that does 15mpg.
These are not sports cars and many buyers are not prepared to make the sort of compromises they would be if they were sports cars. They are everyday saloon cars.
nickfrog said:
How do you know ? Any data ?
You've got to get this correlation between leasing and being stretched financially out of your head. It can be quite the opposite if the cost of leasing is less than depreciation, which is often the case.
No data but common sense really. Most people rent within a fixed cost envelope x on the lease, y on the fuel etc. The car becomes more affordable and accessible if it’s cheaper to run. Things like depreciation don’t come into it. You've got to get this correlation between leasing and being stretched financially out of your head. It can be quite the opposite if the cost of leasing is less than depreciation, which is often the case.
Do you have data to prove this is not the case?
wormus said:
nickfrog said:
How do you know ? Any data ?
You've got to get this correlation between leasing and being stretched financially out of your head. It can be quite the opposite if the cost of leasing is less than depreciation, which is often the case.
No data but common sense really. Most people rent within a fixed cost envelope x on the lease, y on the fuel etc. The car becomes more affordable and accessible if it’s cheaper to run. Things like depreciation don’t come into it. You've got to get this correlation between leasing and being stretched financially out of your head. It can be quite the opposite if the cost of leasing is less than depreciation, which is often the case.
Do you have data to prove this is not the case?
As for proof, you don't know how it works do you? It's a bit like saying, 99% of the world thinks you are an embittered thunder
, can you prove this is not the case?TomScrut said:
You're basically using the diesel thing as a stick to bat company car drivers or leasers with (for whatever reason you don't like them) when actually it's Audi who have made a decision probably based on the fact the old cars were white elephants and so had to change to be viable. Only issue I have with the whole situation on a logical level is it's a shame that it doesn't have the V8 diesel and proper exhausts. Yes in my opinion the car is more desirable with a 450hp petrol engine but I would have the RS4 for that price of car anyway, so the S6 has to carve a new niche since they hardly sold any of the last one.
Oh and the very few people I have seen driving and S6 have normally been men not wearing suits in their 50s or older. Gavin would probably have the RS4 for a similar amount of money like most of us would.
my biggest issue is that it's not quick enough for a current generation S car, if it had been a 450hp+ diesel with a disgusting amount of torque then it'd have more of a caseOh and the very few people I have seen driving and S6 have normally been men not wearing suits in their 50s or older. Gavin would probably have the RS4 for a similar amount of money like most of us would.
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