RE: BMW M3 (E90): PH Fleet
Discussion
Running an E90 is an excellent idea, this is very much the sort of car that I'm interested in hearing about real-world experiences with. Great article, do keep us posted!
I would guess that the reason BMW gets away with unreliable M cars is that there aren't that many direct alternatives that really stack up dynamically, which have better reliability records. So it becomes part of the cost of having a car like this - unless you buy a Corvette, I guess?
The internet has a lot to answer for when it comes to overexadgerating things like this! Not to say you shouldn't change the bearings if you feel like giving yourself reassurance to maximise your experience of this absolutely glorious engine but on the other hand, the 'actual' failures of these engines remains low.
I've run mine for a year now, covered 7k miles and tracked it several times, never going easy on it! It loves to rev and rev and rev and rev!! Motoring nirvana is banging through the DCT box taking it to the 8500 rpm redline in each gear. Combined with a beautifully balanced chassis and pinpoint sharp (hydraulic) steering this car is in it's element on track. I've changed the oil once, had the oil analysis done (low readings of the metal you don't want to see) and other than that, done pretty much nothing but put (copious amounts of) petrol in it and drive the thing, enjoying the stunning V8 soundtrack!
I've run mine for a year now, covered 7k miles and tracked it several times, never going easy on it! It loves to rev and rev and rev and rev!! Motoring nirvana is banging through the DCT box taking it to the 8500 rpm redline in each gear. Combined with a beautifully balanced chassis and pinpoint sharp (hydraulic) steering this car is in it's element on track. I've changed the oil once, had the oil analysis done (low readings of the metal you don't want to see) and other than that, done pretty much nothing but put (copious amounts of) petrol in it and drive the thing, enjoying the stunning V8 soundtrack!
It’s does seem a shame that M cars come with various issues that affect them once they’ve fallen to affordable levels (for me anyway). The E90 M3 is lovely; I was really enjoyed driving my uncles which had a DCT gearbox. It was very very different to his previous RS cars.
I really did think about buying one this year, but for my monthly budget I’d have been looking at the lower end of the market and ultimately I wasn’t brave enough. Coupled with the fuel economy and doing circa 15k per year I figured I’d grow tired of trips to the petrol station. Shame as it’s a great engine (issues aside) and not one that we’ll ever see again from BMW.
I really did think about buying one this year, but for my monthly budget I’d have been looking at the lower end of the market and ultimately I wasn’t brave enough. Coupled with the fuel economy and doing circa 15k per year I figured I’d grow tired of trips to the petrol station. Shame as it’s a great engine (issues aside) and not one that we’ll ever see again from BMW.
0836whimper said:
Not having driven one....does the car tell you via the dash (beyond water and oil gauges) when it's suitably warmed up to rev higher ?
My E46's did and the CSL took aaaages for the lights to go out to indicate it was ready, I used to potter about until all good to go.
Yes, it’s got a lower rev limit, never tested it myself. One test drive i went out on the guy was canning it within 5 minutes. Some people just don’t have much sympathy. Not sure if that was water or oil temp related? My E46's did and the CSL took aaaages for the lights to go out to indicate it was ready, I used to potter about until all good to go.
acme said:
Balls. I really want one of these, with a stick & three pedals. I knew throttle actuators failed circa 40k+ but thought rod bearings were likely at higher miles. I was going to get a warranty but the fully comprehensive BM one you’d need to account for total engine failure is circa 2k!
Depends how deep your pockets are really as I said befor you can’t run an M car on a shoe string I turn all my own wrenches an still parts run up in to the thousands regularly an most my cars do less than 2k a year. I’ve currently rebuilt a spare s85 using aftermarket bearings and titanium rods. Befor that an s54 the spare engines found its way into compact sport in the yard currently under development .
Personally Don’t waste money on warranties far better spending it on your own tools an learning a bit far more enjoyable. Or just saving the money an having a big job a year done .
I had 2 E92 M3s and they were up there with the best cars I have ever owned.....The S65 is a fabulous engine.
Sure for piece of mind you'd probably want to replace the rod bearings once and budget for throttle actuators but apart from that they are very reliable and capable of very high mileages.
Sure for piece of mind you'd probably want to replace the rod bearings once and budget for throttle actuators but apart from that they are very reliable and capable of very high mileages.
It's important to put this preventative cost of £1400 into perspective.
If you run an E90/2 M3 and need to change tyres then a set of 19" premium rubber boots will set you back about £1100 and last 10k miles.
If you are planning to buy one, pick one with good tyres and spend the cash on the bearings!
It's all part and parcel of running an expensive performance car imho
If you run an E90/2 M3 and need to change tyres then a set of 19" premium rubber boots will set you back about £1100 and last 10k miles.
If you are planning to buy one, pick one with good tyres and spend the cash on the bearings!
It's all part and parcel of running an expensive performance car imho
Weekendrebuild said:
Depends how deep your pockets are really as I said befor you can’t run an M car on a shoe string
I turn all my own wrenches an still parts run up in to the thousands regularly an most my cars do less than 2k a year. I’ve currently rebuilt a spare s85 using aftermarket bearings and titanium rods. Befor that an s54 the spare engines found its way into compact sport in the yard currently under development .
Personally Don’t waste money on warranties far better spending it on your own tools an learning a bit far more enjoyable. Or just saving the money an having a big job a year done .
I’ve owned a certain rear engined flat 6 for the past 11 years so am well aware of not only running costs but upgrading too. I subscribe to the old adage that whilst the purchase cost of a car may be X% of its original cost the running costs reflect the original cost. I turn all my own wrenches an still parts run up in to the thousands regularly an most my cars do less than 2k a year. I’ve currently rebuilt a spare s85 using aftermarket bearings and titanium rods. Befor that an s54 the spare engines found its way into compact sport in the yard currently under development .
Personally Don’t waste money on warranties far better spending it on your own tools an learning a bit far more enjoyable. Or just saving the money an having a big job a year done .
The problem in this scenario is that I’m now on a bit of a mission to own a number of cars in the next few years, so the E92 is likely to be a shortish term proposition, a year or so.
For all the repairs, upgrades & mods on the aforementioned over the years rod bearings are definitely beyond me, sadly!
TheAngryDog said:
I wouldn't let that put you off. There are plenty out there with over 60k on them and are fine.
The BMW warranty only covers up to the purchase price minus VAT.
I’m going to try not, a manual V8 NASP really is a must before they’re either to old or banned. The BMW warranty only covers up to the purchase price minus VAT.
I’m not adverse to an EV but engines & noise have been central to my life since I could speak!
lord trumpton said:
It's important to put this preventative cost of £1400 into perspective.
If you run an E90/2 M3 and need to change tyres then a set of 19" premium rubber boots will set you back about £1100 and last 10k miles.
If you are planning to buy one, pick one with good tyres and spend the cash on the bearings!
It's all part and parcel of running an expensive performance car imho
Can't fault the logic, ultimately a performance car that was expensive to buy new is going to have an expensive running cost - sometimes it seems people expect the running costs to depreciate along with the car itself.If you run an E90/2 M3 and need to change tyres then a set of 19" premium rubber boots will set you back about £1100 and last 10k miles.
If you are planning to buy one, pick one with good tyres and spend the cash on the bearings!
It's all part and parcel of running an expensive performance car imho
I think that's a little disingenuous, when people talk about running costs they are usually talking about tyres, brakes, suspension bits that wear out. In other words consumables and yes sometimes these bits can be expensive for performance cars but you pay to play.
Having to open up the engine to change internal parts after a relatively low amount of miles or completely change suspension components because they've failed or having to rebuild an engine due to bore scoring can't be dismissed as normal running costs IMO, that's a fundamental flaw which unfortunately seem to be rather more prevalent than you'd hope.
Having to open up the engine to change internal parts after a relatively low amount of miles or completely change suspension components because they've failed or having to rebuild an engine due to bore scoring can't be dismissed as normal running costs IMO, that's a fundamental flaw which unfortunately seem to be rather more prevalent than you'd hope.
Guvernator said:
10k miles for tyres? What are they made of, chocolate? I've owned quite a few performance cars previously, never had to change my tyres after 10k.
The tyres on the Atom last 1800 miles 
10K from the E90 wasn’t bad IMO. The NSX was way worse with much less power. All depends on how they are set up really. Guvernator said:
I think that's a little disingenuous, when people talk about running costs they are usually talking about tyres, brakes, suspension bits that wear out. In other words consumables and yes sometimes these bits can be expensive for performance cars but you pay to play.
Having to open up the engine to change internal parts after a relatively low amount of miles or completely change suspension components because they've failed or having to rebuild an engine due to bore scoring can't be dismissed as normal running costs IMO, that's a fundamental flaw which unfortunately seem to be rather more prevalent than you'd hope.
No performance car is immune. The GT-R, 911, Audi RS, there’s always something. £1400 isn’t a massive amount to worry about in M3 ownership. It’s just not. Having to open up the engine to change internal parts after a relatively low amount of miles or completely change suspension components because they've failed or having to rebuild an engine due to bore scoring can't be dismissed as normal running costs IMO, that's a fundamental flaw which unfortunately seem to be rather more prevalent than you'd hope.
yonex said:
No performance car is immune. The GT-R, 911, Audi RS, there’s always something. £1400 isn’t a massive amount to worry about in M3 ownership. It’s just not.
No you are right it's not a lot but I'd argue it shouldn't really be happening in the first place. A friend of mine bought an E93 M3 a few months ago, he was just telling me how much he was enjoying it just two days ago. He probably hasn't the first clue about this issue as he is into cars but not too mechanically minded or on car forums all day long. It would be a massive blow if his engine decided to lunch itself because of this flaw. Do I tell him about this flaw and tell him he needs to spend £1400 which would be a pretty hard sell tbh or do I leave him in blissful ignorance to enjoy his car?It's not a consumable, it's a design flaw and something that shouldn't even be a consideration if BMW had done their jobs properly.
Seriously - how little mechanical sympathy (and intelligence) do you have to possess to thrash any engine from cold? These things even have the safety-lit Rev counter to guard against terminal stupidity and any act of abuse with an engine like this almost amounts to a form of cruelty.
Made me quite grumpy that these sort of w
k puffins are still out there...
Muppets.
Made me quite grumpy that these sort of w
k puffins are still out there... Muppets.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff