Are noisy ICE cars becoming embarrassing?
Discussion
Rawwr said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Or they are paid to say what people want to hear. Electric cars(sadly imo) are the future and it wouldn't be in the car journalists interest to slag them off...even if they really wanted to.
I'm not sure that makes logical sense.Baldchap said:
yonex said:
Lazermilk said:
Totally agree, this thread is like some kind of willy waving contest where anything less than 6/8 cylinders (aka inches) is to be laughed at 
This thread has quickly become embarrassing for what is supposed to be a forum aimed at people who like all kinds of performance cars, including EV's!
EV’s are soulless.This thread has quickly become embarrassing for what is supposed to be a forum aimed at people who like all kinds of performance cars, including EV's!
/end
TGMag said:
In the M3"when you floor it, the throttle response is glacial by comparison, and the accompanying racket isn’t quite as glorious as you remember — more of a distraction from listening to what the tyres are doing and getting on with the business of going fast.”
As people who drove cars for a living, you think they'd know what they're talking about.Some Commentary on the TG article said:
"The very first iteration of an electric mid-sized sedan to have a performance option beating out the longstanding stalwart of fossil fueled sports sedans … does not bode well for the old tech. After all, the fossil technology has already benefited from over a century of refinements and improvements. If we look 5 or 10 years down the road, what refinements and improvements will EV technology gain, to further the performance lead over fossils?
We’ve already seen battery electrics beat out fossils at the Pikes Peak hill climb (outright record), on the Nürburgring Nordschleife (production cars record), and at other racetracks. In each case, these are just the first tentative generations of full electric sports cars, with huge scope for further improvements."
Can't argue with any of that really. We’ve already seen battery electrics beat out fossils at the Pikes Peak hill climb (outright record), on the Nürburgring Nordschleife (production cars record), and at other racetracks. In each case, these are just the first tentative generations of full electric sports cars, with huge scope for further improvements."
The only EV that I've driven is Jaguar's I-Pace, at Millbrook.
On the Alpine circuit I doubt that either of our supercharged V8s could stay with it, and strangely enough, the muted motor hum and tyre roar add to the sense of occasion.
All that holds EVs back is lack of range, especially at higher speeds (two flat out laps of the speed bowl halved the charge from 92%), refuelling/charging time, and the questionable manufacturing / recycling environmental credentials; they will get there though, and government interference allowing, we should be able enjoy them.
Baldchap said:
yonex said:
Lazermilk said:
Totally agree, this thread is like some kind of willy waving contest where anything less than 6/8 cylinders (aka inches) is to be laughed at
This thread has quickly become embarrassing for what is supposed to be a forum aimed at people who like all kinds of performance cars, including EV's!
EV’s are soulless.This thread has quickly become embarrassing for what is supposed to be a forum aimed at people who like all kinds of performance cars, including EV's!
/end
TGMag said:
In the M3"when you floor it, the throttle response is glacial by comparison, and the accompanying racket isn’t quite as glorious as you remember — more of a distraction from listening to what the tyres are doing and getting on with the business of going fast.”
As people who drove cars for a living, you think they'd know what they're talking about.Some Commentary on the TG article said:
"The very first iteration of an electric mid-sized sedan to have a performance option beating out the longstanding stalwart of fossil fueled sports sedans … does not bode well for the old tech. After all, the fossil technology has already benefited from over a century of refinements and improvements. If we look 5 or 10 years down the road, what refinements and improvements will EV technology gain, to further the performance lead over fossils?
We’ve already seen battery electrics beat out fossils at the Pikes Peak hill climb (outright record), on the Nürburgring Nordschleife (production cars record), and at other racetracks. In each case, these are just the first tentative generations of full electric sports cars, with huge scope for further improvements."
Can't argue with any of that really. We’ve already seen battery electrics beat out fossils at the Pikes Peak hill climb (outright record), on the Nürburgring Nordschleife (production cars record), and at other racetracks. In each case, these are just the first tentative generations of full electric sports cars, with huge scope for further improvements."
I would also be interested to know which ones you have tested to back up your claims?
(I haven't driven any just to be clear, I just don't think its right to dismiss them, the more choices the better and I still think we will always have ICE cars around, at least for a very very long time anyway!)
Throw a spanner in the works regarding cylinder count anyway! Recently acquired a Suzuki cappuccino 3 cylinder just under 700cc 700kg absolutely brilliant fun I’m 6ft 2 an easily fit in . sounds awesome with the little turbo wizzing away doesn’t half make you smile.
Spent 6months rebuilding removing tin worm but well worth it . Much more fun than the Elise even ! Running 100bhp on 1.0 bar
Spent 6months rebuilding removing tin worm but well worth it . Much more fun than the Elise even ! Running 100bhp on 1.0 bar
Rawwr said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Or they are paid to say what people want to hear. Electric cars(sadly imo) are the future and it wouldn't be in the car journalists interest to slag them off...even if they really wanted to.
I'm not sure that makes logical sense.Magazines are really only interested in sales
Magazine editors encourage their writers to be favourable about EVs to drive sales in a new demographic
May or may not be true, but quite easy to see why they'd be keen to put in favourable EV reviews. I don't personally have anything against them, I'd quite like one as a city runner, but I don't see them completely replacing ICEs especially when it comes to motorsport or any driving where range is critical.
Baldchap said:
yonex said:
Lazermilk said:
Totally agree, this thread is like some kind of willy waving contest where anything less than 6/8 cylinders (aka inches) is to be laughed at
This thread has quickly become embarrassing for what is supposed to be a forum aimed at people who like all kinds of performance cars, including EV's!
EV’s are soulless.This thread has quickly become embarrassing for what is supposed to be a forum aimed at people who like all kinds of performance cars, including EV's!
/end
TGMag said:
In the M3"when you floor it, the throttle response is glacial by comparison, and the accompanying racket isn’t quite as glorious as you remember — more of a distraction from listening to what the tyres are doing and getting on with the business of going fast.”
As people who drove cars for a living, you think they'd know what they're talking about.Some Commentary on the TG article said:
"The very first iteration of an electric mid-sized sedan to have a performance option beating out the longstanding stalwart of fossil fueled sports sedans … does not bode well for the old tech. After all, the fossil technology has already benefited from over a century of refinements and improvements. If we look 5 or 10 years down the road, what refinements and improvements will EV technology gain, to further the performance lead over fossils?
We’ve already seen battery electrics beat out fossils at the Pikes Peak hill climb (outright record), on the Nürburgring Nordschleife (production cars record), and at other racetracks. In each case, these are just the first tentative generations of full electric sports cars, with huge scope for further improvements."
Can't argue with any of that really. We’ve already seen battery electrics beat out fossils at the Pikes Peak hill climb (outright record), on the Nürburgring Nordschleife (production cars record), and at other racetracks. In each case, these are just the first tentative generations of full electric sports cars, with huge scope for further improvements."
Lazermilk said:
This is how I see it too, we are just more or less at the beginning of learning what EV's can do and they will only get better all round, to say they are soulless isn't fair IMO, as you are comparing them to cars which were many many years in the making.
I would also be interested to know which ones you have tested to back up your claims?
(I haven't driven any just to be clear, I just don't think its right to dismiss them, the more choices the better and I still think we will always have ICE cars around, at least for a very very long time anyway!)
The TG article makes a very good point about the difference in development time of ice vs ev. As much as I love the engineering associated with ice it's taken an aeon to arrive at an engine/gearbox combination that still doesn't deliver instant pedal response with linearity of torque. It's very close but the limitations of a reciprocating cylinder dictates.I would also be interested to know which ones you have tested to back up your claims?
(I haven't driven any just to be clear, I just don't think its right to dismiss them, the more choices the better and I still think we will always have ICE cars around, at least for a very very long time anyway!)
An electric motor on the other hand is infinitely more efficient (into the 90%+), delivers 100% torque at any moment and does not lose time with gear changes. It's almost perfect, except for the noise but I'm over that tbh.
Once someone develops an EV that actually handles like a sports car then it'll be very hard to overlook.
cerb4.5lee said:
Baldchap said:
Top Gear magazine said the following this month when a Tesla Model 3 Performance lapped faster than a BMW M3...
Or they are paid to say what people want to hear. Electric cars(sadly imo) are the future and it wouldn't be in the car journalists interest to slag them off...even if they really wanted to. TGMag said:
In the M3"when you floor it, the throttle response is glacial by comparison, and the accompanying racket isn’t quite as glorious as you remember — more of a distraction from listening to what the tyres are doing and getting on with the business of going fast.”
As people who drove cars for a living, you think they'd know what they're talking about.
Pretty sure at the dawn of the automotive vehicle there were three types of propulsion Steam, Electric and Petrol/Diesel.
Steam was thought to be the way to go as it was the current popular form of propulsion, trains, ships etc, with Electric a close second as it was seen as clean and less complicated. Petrol won out because it was deemed to be the best and steam and electric cars fell by the wayside.
Steam was thought to be the way to go as it was the current popular form of propulsion, trains, ships etc, with Electric a close second as it was seen as clean and less complicated. Petrol won out because it was deemed to be the best and steam and electric cars fell by the wayside.
Baldchap said:
yonex said:
Lazermilk said:
Totally agree, this thread is like some kind of willy waving contest where anything less than 6/8 cylinders (aka inches) is to be laughed at
This thread has quickly become embarrassing for what is supposed to be a forum aimed at people who like all kinds of performance cars, including EV's!
EV’s are soulless.This thread has quickly become embarrassing for what is supposed to be a forum aimed at people who like all kinds of performance cars, including EV's!
/end
TGMag said:
In the M3"when you floor it, the throttle response is glacial by comparison, and the accompanying racket isn’t quite as glorious as you remember — more of a distraction from listening to what the tyres are doing and getting on with the business of going fast.”
As people who drove cars for a living, you think they'd know what they're talking about.Some Commentary on the TG article said:
"The very first iteration of an electric mid-sized sedan to have a performance option beating out the longstanding stalwart of fossil fueled sports sedans … does not bode well for the old tech. After all, the fossil technology has already benefited from over a century of refinements and improvements. If we look 5 or 10 years down the road, what refinements and improvements will EV technology gain, to further the performance lead over fossils?
We’ve already seen battery electrics beat out fossils at the Pikes Peak hill climb (outright record), on the Nürburgring Nordschleife (production cars record), and at other racetracks. In each case, these are just the first tentative generations of full electric sports cars, with huge scope for further improvements."
Can't argue with any of that really. We’ve already seen battery electrics beat out fossils at the Pikes Peak hill climb (outright record), on the Nürburgring Nordschleife (production cars record), and at other racetracks. In each case, these are just the first tentative generations of full electric sports cars, with huge scope for further improvements."
I don 't really care how my car sounds as long as I can just jump in and drive where I want.
I prefer a V8 or V6, but I don't mind the sound of my alfa 4 Banger, suits the car:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvmdCrm-jQw&t=...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvmdCrm-jQw&t=...
urquattroGus said:
I prefer a V8 or V6, but I don't mind the sound of my alfa 4 Banger, suits the car:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvmdCrm-jQw&t=...
That's lovely - I'd like nothing more than to thrash that down a country lane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvmdCrm-jQw&t=...
Codswallop said:
I saw a Tesla Model S and Golf R have a cheeky race away from some traffic lights today. The Tesla pulled a significant gap while the Golf parped away in the slightly contrived way that all DSG VAGs seem to do. It looked/ sounded embarrassing in some ways; almost a case of all show and no go from the Golf (even though it's a quick car by most normal standards).
In the past Joe public associated noise with speed and power. However with the increasing prevalence of silent, instant torque EVs, I wonder how long it'll be before the loud and comparatively slow ICE cars begin to look old fashioned?
I love a nice sounding engine, but am aware that being a car enthusiast is a minority hobby, and one that is increasingly being frowned upon by certain people.
Will noisy cars always be a thing?
Agreed. Let the torque do the talking. No 'straight piped' 4 cylinder ever sounded good. It's just an irritating drone. Chop out the silencers from a 6, 8 or 10 cylinder and that's just musical. 4 pots need to be muted for their own good because they have all the musicality of a Casiotone. In the past Joe public associated noise with speed and power. However with the increasing prevalence of silent, instant torque EVs, I wonder how long it'll be before the loud and comparatively slow ICE cars begin to look old fashioned?
I love a nice sounding engine, but am aware that being a car enthusiast is a minority hobby, and one that is increasingly being frowned upon by certain people.
Will noisy cars always be a thing?
rottenegg said:
Agreed. Let the torque do the talking. No 'straight piped' 4 cylinder ever sounded good. It's just an irritating drone. Chop out the silencers from a 6, 8 or 10 cylinder and that's just musical. 4 pots need to be muted for their own good because they have all the musicality of a Casiotone.
Really? You never been to a rally or watched rally cars on TV? Each to their own but some sound absolutely fantastic as the rip theough a forest. You can keep you silent EVs.Baldchap said:
Top Gear magazine said the following this month when a Tesla Model 3 Performance lapped faster than a BMW M3...
I can. The i3 left me cold. After the initial phase of standing starts the range was basically awful and it was just transport.TGMag said:
In the M3"when you floor it, the throttle response is glacial by comparison, and the accompanying racket isn’t quite as glorious as you remember — more of a distraction from listening to what the tyres are doing and getting on with the business of going fast.”
As people who drove cars for a living, you think they'd know what they're talking about.Some Commentary on the TG article said:
"The very first iteration of an electric mid-sized sedan to have a performance option beating out the longstanding stalwart of fossil fueled sports sedans … does not bode well for the old tech. After all, the fossil technology has already benefited from over a century of refinements and improvements. If we look 5 or 10 years down the road, what refinements and improvements will EV technology gain, to further the performance lead over fossils?
We’ve already seen battery electrics beat out fossils at the Pikes Peak hill climb (outright record), on the Nürburgring Nordschleife (production cars record), and at other racetracks. In each case, these are just the first tentative generations of full electric sports cars, with huge scope for further improvements."
Can't argue with any of that really. We’ve already seen battery electrics beat out fossils at the Pikes Peak hill climb (outright record), on the Nürburgring Nordschleife (production cars record), and at other racetracks. In each case, these are just the first tentative generations of full electric sports cars, with huge scope for further improvements."
I’m sure the same people who love cars like Lexus, I.e quiet, efficient, white goods will appreciate EV. For me the noise, smell and vibration of an ICE is half the experience.
Nothing will ever beat the various noises from a well put together ICE in my book. As for going fast, there’s more to driving than straight line speed
urquattroGus said:
I prefer a V8 or V6, but I don't mind the sound of my alfa 4 Banger, suits the car:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvmdCrm-jQw&t=...
There's nothing wrong with the sound of that.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvmdCrm-jQw&t=...
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