Are noisy ICE cars becoming embarrassing?
Discussion
RoverP6B said:
There are very few great noises out there now. In terms of current production cars, I can't think of anything much that I like. Ford Coyote is about it. Farting, parping fours, sixes and even V8s are just embarrassing. Last time I was at Dunsfold Wings & Wheels, the best sounds I heard were the Merlins, the Vulcan, an E46 M3 and a Jag D-type. The E46 sounded remarkably similar to the old Jag racer, and they were easily the two loudest cars on the runway that day. A proper big-block V8 running hairy cams is a fabulous sound, but the last great-sounding V12s were the M297 in the Zonda and the Bizzarrini in the Murcielago.
My W12 Bentley sounded amazing.Lots of the time it depends not just on the car but also what manufacturer the exhaust is by as well, some exhausts just sound cheap and nasty even on the nicest engines, ideally an engine needs to be decatted to get the best out of the exhaust as then the popping on the overrun is genuine and not contrived.
I spent a lot of money (compared to what the cars worth) on a HKS Legamax exhaust for my weekend car as the current cheap (toyo/japspeed) was starting to get dangerously close to the trackside db limits and it's well worth the extra outlay as until 5k it sounds pretty much stock then from 7-10k it screams.
With the previous aftermarket exhaust it sounded really loud even below 4k so used to draw attention even when not going fast and droned quite a bit on the motorway.
My daily came with a 'Nur Spec' exhaust which set off car alarms just idling but the previous owner also included a Haywood and Scott in the sale which is much more refined, still has a burble yet you can also hear the induction noises the engine makes as well.
I spent a lot of money (compared to what the cars worth) on a HKS Legamax exhaust for my weekend car as the current cheap (toyo/japspeed) was starting to get dangerously close to the trackside db limits and it's well worth the extra outlay as until 5k it sounds pretty much stock then from 7-10k it screams.
With the previous aftermarket exhaust it sounded really loud even below 4k so used to draw attention even when not going fast and droned quite a bit on the motorway.
My daily came with a 'Nur Spec' exhaust which set off car alarms just idling but the previous owner also included a Haywood and Scott in the sale which is much more refined, still has a burble yet you can also hear the induction noises the engine makes as well.
RoverP6B said:
There are very few great noises out there now. In terms of current production cars, I can't think of anything much that I like. Ford Coyote is about it. Farting, parping fours, sixes and even V8s are just embarrassing. Last time I was at Dunsfold Wings & Wheels, the best sounds I heard were the Merlins, the Vulcan, an E46 M3 and a Jag D-type. The E46 sounded remarkably similar to the old Jag racer, and they were easily the two loudest cars on the runway that day. A proper big-block V8 running hairy cams is a fabulous sound, but the last great-sounding V12s were the M297 in the Zonda and the Bizzarrini in the Murcielago.
There are quite a few good sounding engines out still. Amg V8, RS3 5 cylinder, R8 V10, Aventador, ferrari 812, GT 4 etc etc. Yes maybe not as good as the rose tinted spectacles cars but still pretty damn good considering strict emissions regulations. Shiv_P said:
There are quite a few good sounding engines out still. Amg V8, RS3 5 cylinder, R8 V10, Aventador, ferrari 812, GT 4 etc etc. Yes maybe not as good as the rose tinted spectacles cars but still pretty damn good considering strict emissions regulations.
AMG V8 - the M156 was amazing but that's dead. The M157 5.5 twin-turbo was OK. The M177 4.0 is dull and dreary. R8 V10 not a bad shout, but I prefer the wail of an early 5.0 Gallardo. Aventador is OK but not a patch on the textural howl of the old Bizzarrini V12 in the Murcielago. 812 Superfast, really? Nothing like as musical as the old 550/575 engine... direct injection robbed it of its character and there's far too much bass in the standard exhaust.The Coyote IMO is everything a modern V8 should be, and somehow emissions haven't killed it off.
lord trumpton said:
HAving recently spent a weekend in a P100D and then getting back in the RS6 (remapped to 720) the RS felt slow in comparison and the previously loved noise felt embarrassing.
The problem for me was this...
Is far nicer to look at that this s
t
Genuinely interested in this response. The Tesla P100D from what I can find online has 600 ish BHP vs your RS6 which has 720 BHP. They probably weigh around the same, and would guess the Audi has more torque. In what way does the Audi feel slow? 0-60? 50+ MPH? The problem for me was this...
Is far nicer to look at that this s
tQuite interested to hear if the Tesla feels quicker, or is quicker.
StuE39 said:
lord trumpton said:
HAving recently spent a weekend in a P100D and then getting back in the RS6 (remapped to 720) the RS felt slow in comparison and the previously loved noise felt embarrassing.
The problem for me was this...
Is far nicer to look at that this st
Genuinely interested in this response. The Tesla P100D from what I can find online has 600 ish BHP vs your RS6 which has 720 BHP. They probably weigh around the same, and would guess the Audi has more torque. In what way does the Audi feel slow? 0-60? 50+ MPH? The problem for me was this...
Is far nicer to look at that this s
tQuite interested to hear if the Tesla feels quicker, or is quicker.
Most petrol stuff loses a drag race to a Tesla. Google it for tons of videos.
Baldchap said:
We have a Model X P100D. You're comparing PEAK figures. What you forget is the electric vehicle has peak torque at zero RPM all the way to the speed limiter. It makes for motorbike levels of acceleration. Our 6 seater does 0-60 in 2.7 seconds. The model S is even faster.
Most petrol stuff loses a drag race to a Tesla. Google it for tons of videos.
The response to accelerator pedal changes on all electric cars is incredible too. They make even the most powertrain of even the msot refined V12 luxo barge feel like something from a traction engine.Most petrol stuff loses a drag race to a Tesla. Google it for tons of videos.
Baldchap said:
We have a Model X P100D. You're comparing PEAK figures. What you forget is the electric vehicle has peak torque at zero RPM all the way to the speed limiter. It makes for motorbike levels of acceleration. Our 6 seater does 0-60 in 2.7 seconds. The model S is even faster.
Most petrol stuff loses a drag race to a Tesla. Google it for tons of videos.
I've seen the videos of Tesla drag races (including one where it loses to a tuned Civic with 400 bhp). I'm just wondering if the Audi feels slow against the Tesla at any speed. For example, there are plenty of videos where the Tesla pulls ahead on the 1/4 mile, but then you see the ICE car starting to pull it back in towards the end. If the drag race were a mile, the outcome would probably be different.Most petrol stuff loses a drag race to a Tesla. Google it for tons of videos.
That's why I was wondering does the Tesla feel quicker even from a rolling start at say 60 MPH, where the instant torque advantage is reduced.
StuE39 said:
I've seen the videos of Tesla drag races (including one where it loses to a tuned Civic with 400 bhp). I'm just wondering if the Audi feels slow against the Tesla at any speed. For example, there are plenty of videos where the Tesla pulls ahead on the 1/4 mile, but then you see the ICE car starting to pull it back in towards the end. If the drag race were a mile, the outcome would probably be different.
That's why I was wondering does the Tesla feel quicker even from a rolling start at say 60 MPH, where the instant torque advantage is reduced.
I may or may not know of a story, which is possibly 1st-hand but maybe 2nd-hand or 3rd-hand where a 2017 Fireblade SP went after a Model S P100D from a standstill off a roundabout on to a dual-carriageway. The guy riding the Fireblade made the best launch of his life but still the Tesla edged away from him to about 70mph before I (or him, whatever) started pulling it back and then after 100mph the bike really checked out from the Tesla. Of course, none of this happened, but also did but, importantly, it didn't, did it?That's why I was wondering does the Tesla feel quicker even from a rolling start at say 60 MPH, where the instant torque advantage is reduced.
StuE39 said:
Baldchap said:
We have a Model X P100D. You're comparing PEAK figures. What you forget is the electric vehicle has peak torque at zero RPM all the way to the speed limiter. It makes for motorbike levels of acceleration. Our 6 seater does 0-60 in 2.7 seconds. The model S is even faster.
Most petrol stuff loses a drag race to a Tesla. Google it for tons of videos.
I've seen the videos of Tesla drag races (including one where it loses to a tuned Civic with 400 bhp). I'm just wondering if the Audi feels slow against the Tesla at any speed. For example, there are plenty of videos where the Tesla pulls ahead on the 1/4 mile, but then you see the ICE car starting to pull it back in towards the end. If the drag race were a mile, the outcome would probably be different.Most petrol stuff loses a drag race to a Tesla. Google it for tons of videos.
That's why I was wondering does the Tesla feel quicker even from a rolling start at say 60 MPH, where the instant torque advantage is reduced.
Baldchap said:
At about 80 or 90mph the Tesla starts to feel like it's tapering off. Below that It's neck-snappingly fast. From any constant speed, throttle response is utterly immediate, which feels faster than anything with a petrol engine, even if it's not. Make sense?
That answers my question - thank-you.Baldchap said:
At about 80 or 90mph the Tesla starts to feel like it's tapering off. Below that It's neck-snappingly fast. From any constant speed, throttle response is utterly immediate, which feels faster than anything with a petrol engine, even if it's not. Make sense?
‘Neck-snappingly fast’ ! Check the definition difference between speed, acceleration, and jerk (the first, second, and third time derivatives of position).Pica-Pica said:
Baldchap said:
At about 80 or 90mph the Tesla starts to feel like it's tapering off. Below that It's neck-snappingly fast. From any constant speed, throttle response is utterly immediate, which feels faster than anything with a petrol engine, even if it's not. Make sense?
‘Neck-snappingly fast’ ! Check the definition difference between speed, acceleration, and jerk (the first, second, and third time derivatives of position).
lord trumpton said:
HAving recently spent a weekend in a P100D and then getting back in the RS6 (remapped to 720) the RS felt slow in comparison and the previously loved noise felt embarrassing.
The problem for me was this...
Is far nicer to look at that this st
Interesting to read. I havent tried a P100D but spent 2 weeks in a P85. Acceleration was startling to say the least but I didnt find it particularly exciting. I wasnt grinning ear to ear whilst doing traffic light race offs. Two days after handing it back I had about an hour in a new E63s. Much slower of course but i was grinning like a cheshire cat. RS6 any day especially if it has an aftermarket exhaust. The problem for me was this...
Is far nicer to look at that this s
tCouldnt agree more on the interiors by the way - dreadful.
As the onslaught of EV's continues it will quickly gain momentum & public support to the deficit of a nice ICE. I do think folks in general are sheep especially in the UK & easily led. Look at diesel gate.
EV's will (or have) become trendy & everyone will quickly follow suit and thereby make any interesting cars with proper engines somewhat socially unacceptable, if they aren't already! Surely there is a place for both but i fear this won't happen.
On PH we all love a V8 but i fear this will be the exception to the rule if not now in the next 5 years. My fear is a knee jerk politician banning petrol powered cars in the medium term altogether either directly through policy or indirectly through emissions, noise, speed etc. Shame
EV's will (or have) become trendy & everyone will quickly follow suit and thereby make any interesting cars with proper engines somewhat socially unacceptable, if they aren't already! Surely there is a place for both but i fear this won't happen.
On PH we all love a V8 but i fear this will be the exception to the rule if not now in the next 5 years. My fear is a knee jerk politician banning petrol powered cars in the medium term altogether either directly through policy or indirectly through emissions, noise, speed etc. Shame
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