RE: Diesel duo confirmed for Audi S5

[Onehp]

silentbrown said:

Or, just maybe, because GDI particulate output is about 1:30th of diesel?

AFAIK GPF regen doesn't require the same sustained high rev driving that DPFs need, so (assuming you drive far enough to get the car up to temperature) there's less of an issue with suitability. Also they don't dump fuel into the oil while trying to regenerate...

Edited by silentbrown on Thursday 18th April 15:58

30 times less in mass, you can have the same amount of particles if they are just 3 times smaller in diameter. Which is probably just as harmful, if not more so.

I prefer to see in practice how the GPFs do after a few years. Mass is less but the filtering is finer also. Gasoline does run hotter so burning off shouldn't be the same issue.
Either way, buying a S car to do primarily short distances in a city is... a waste in so many ways... No judgement.

Edited by Onehp on Thursday 18th April 17:02

[culpz]

Onehp said:

culpz said:

I am. Are you aware of the differences between DPF's and GPF's?

Good to hear some of us have decades of experience with them... We'll see how short a trips one can do with them before getting long term issues. But untill then, enlightening me on the details.

I'm sure your PH smarts allow you to do your own research a la the internet. Or maybe they don't. My crystal ball might be a bit off today.

I see you're very much a glass-half-empty kinda guy

[simonwhite2000]

mackie1 said:

I have a B9 S5 currently and the engine is a big part of the experience so this is a shame from my POV. Would be interested to try the new diesel though, I’m sure it won’t feel much slower.

Agreed the engine in the B9 S5 is fantastic and makes a great sound.

[Alex P]

Seems like an odd move considering the new SQ5 switched from diesel to petrol in Europe (always petrol in the states) only a few years before and Porsche have recently pulled diesel power in no uncertain terms - one senior employee stating it was a 'mistake' or similar for Porsche to have gone diesel in first place. The whole thing smacks of EU rules, corporate blunder (dieslegate) and oversupply of Diesel engines that they need to get rid of and no other market will take - I wonder if they will put words to that effect in the sales brochure to help justify the £56k entry price?

The funny thing is that it was not like the 'old' petrol S4/5 wasn't selling - I see quite few a recent examples where I live and I have just been on holiday in the Lakes where I would see many (normally estates) everyday - made a welcome change from all Diesel SUVs TBH. Fair enough offer the choice of petrol or diesel but dropping the petrol is certainly not about meeting customer demand or offering choice - if I was spending £56k + on a 'sports' saloon/coupe/hatch/estate I would want the bl**dy engine I want/need and it certainly would not be the Diesel - may as well save £15k and buy the lower spec 3.0 TDI if I did need the diesel due to mpg concerns.

[JD]

Alex P said:

Seems like an odd move considering the new SQ5 switched from diesel to petrol in Europe (always petrol in the states) only a few years before and Porsche have recently pulled diesel power in no uncertain terms - one senior employee stating it was a 'mistake' or similar for Porsche to have gone diesel in first place. The whole thing smacks of EU rules, corporate blunder (dieslegate) and oversupply of Diesel engines that they need to get rid of and no other market will take - I wonder if they will put words to that effect in the sales brochure to help justify the £56k entry price?

The funny thing is that it was not like the 'old' petrol S4/5 wasn't selling - I see quite few a recent examples where I live and I have just been on holiday in the Lakes where I would see many (normally estates) everyday - made a welcome change from all Diesel SUVs TBH. Fair enough offer the choice of petrol or diesel but dropping the petrol is certainly not about meeting customer demand or offering choice - if I was spending £56k + on a 'sports' saloon/coupe/hatch/estate I would want the bl**dy engine I want/need and it certainly would not be the Diesel - may as well save £15k and buy the lower spec 3.0 TDI if I did need the diesel due to mpg concerns.

Heres the thing - there isn't a normal 3.0 any more.

the S5 is now the only one in the range with more than 4 cylinders.

[mackie1]

Also the price has gone up a lot! The list price for my Sportback with options was just over £48k 2 years ago

[kellydk]

I honestly don’t understand this approach. The ‘S’ Audi’s have always been for those who wanted sporty petrol versions of the Audi range. If you wanted diesel sporty, buy the diesel model and add the S-Line and appropriate options.

Changing the ‘S’ models removes the option for those looking for the sporty petrol models. Personally, someone at Audi has made a huge mistake with this decision

[SD_1]

JD said:

Heres the thing - there isn't a normal 3.0 any more.

the S5 is now the only one in the range with more than 4 cylinders.

Has the 3.0 TDI been abandoned in the A4,5,6? That is a real shame, it was a brilliant engine.

[numtumfutunch]

So the S4 is now a diesel too!
After 2y in a recent 335d I cant say Im excited

I just missed the S4 lease love in last year and would have rather fancied one for the money at that time if I didnt still have 6 months with the BMW

Having said that Ive never really felt the love for fast Audis but the S4 was the one which I thought I could probably live with as a daily

Cheers

[ducnick]

SD_1 said:

JD said:

Heres the thing - there isn't a normal 3.0 any more.

the S5 is now the only one in the range with more than 4 cylinders.

Has the 3.0 TDI been abandoned in the A4,5,6? That is a real shame, it was a brilliant engine.

By the sounds of it the 3.0 TDI S line hasn’t been abandoned.... it’s just been rebranded as S4. I guess the 3.0 TDI in comfort trim has now been abandoned though.

[Nerdherder]

Wow, we do live in strange times.

[jakesmith]

kellydk said:

I honestly don’t understand this approach. The ‘S’ Audi’s have always been for those who wanted sporty petrol versions of the Audi range. If you wanted diesel sporty, buy the diesel model and add the S-Line and appropriate options.

Changing the ‘S’ models removes the option for those looking for the sporty petrol models. Personally, someone at Audi has made a huge mistake with this decision

Not being pedantic but the S model was just a normal version of an Audi with an powerful engine. It happened to be petrol for a while but that ended some time ago with the Q5 variant and maybe the Q7 too?

Obviously Audi knows it’s market and clearly they have decided to converge the S and 3.0tdi buyers. I’d imagine i today’s world, both pools were lessening so it made sense to merge them

Also it gives better halo differentiation to the RS models which for many years have suffered from compatible performance to a remapped S variant

[Hitch]

Is it the case that Audi no longer have a suitable petrol engine post-WLTP withdrawal of the last model so diesel is their only option?

Doesn't seem like a truely strategic decision, more a 'how can we still have some sort of S range until the hybrid power train is ready' kind of thing.

[nunpuncher]

Skim read the article and all the comments so can someone please clarify, have I missed something here? Is the article from 2005 or is this some way for Audi to fudge some sort of emissions rule or what not?

There's got to be an angle here surely as I was under the impression buying a diesel in anything other than an agricultural vehicle/heavy plant machinery was just not a thing now.

[PhilboSE]

jakesmith said:

Not being pedantic but the S model was just a normal version of an Audi with an powerful engine. It happened to be petrol for a while but that ended some time ago with the Q5 variant and maybe the Q7 too?

S versions have generally uprated drivetrain vs "normal" models - engine, suspension, brakes, often gearbox. In some cases (e.g. SQ7) it's radically different. To say the S is just a normal version with a powerful engine is pretty wrong. BTW new model Q7 has always been diesel only, old model Q7 had a petrol option but made less than 3% of UK sales.

[LexyLex]

Seems a good idea to order the last of the petrol ones rather than a horrid noisy polluting diesel that soon you won't be even allowed to drive into certain urban centres

[Cupramax]

LexyLex said:

Seems a good idea to order the last of the petrol ones rather than a horrid noisy polluting diesel that soon you won't be even allowed to drive into certain urban centres

They aren’t available to order and haven’t been for some time.

[Onehp]

LexyLex said:

Seems a good idea to order the last of the petrol ones rather than a horrid noisy polluting diesel that soon you won't be even allowed to drive into certain urban centres

Irony being that the gasolines will emit massively more soot particles that however are just too small to be visible... And no government with any sense (ok that is a big IF) will ban a diesel that is much cleaner than ever before (EURO 6d)...

The S4 and S4 Avant 'superTDI' are now also on the Audi media website btw...

[Motormatt]

Such a bizarre move from Audi.

So they pulled their TDI hybrid out of the WEC in 2017 to pursue Formula E, a decision that must have at least in part been driven by the Diselgate scandal. Stablemate Porsche pull all diesel engines from their cars in 2018. The parent VAG group has pledged an 80 Billion euro investment in electric vehicles and batteries between 2016 and 2025. Diesel sales are falling off a cliff across Europe.

Meanwhile, for the first time ever, in 2019, Audi starts putting diesels in its 's' badged variants, cars that have always been bought because they were petrol?

[Beefmeister]

PH - what's with just updating an old story? Just post a new story, then we don't have to trawl through a load of old comments before getting to those relating to the updated story. Seems lazy to me.