What’s the best looking 4 door saloon car ever?

[DoubleD]

Raygun said:

LuS1fer said:

The Jaguar Mk II 3.8 had 190hp at the start of the 1960s and had the same engine as the E-Type.

As much as they're an iconic car the look of them still takes you back to the 60's where's the XJ6 can fit in any decade since it's creation. I notice lots of people are posting photos of BMWs and Maseratis(own one myself) but they don't come close to the XJ6, the fact that the XJ6 is not a rare sight and has been prone to rust over the years has no relevance on the the title of this thread

The xj6 is a nice looking car, but its not a modern looking car.

[300bhp/ton]

Ares said:

What out-gunned the M5 by 1985?

Plenty of sporty saloons, but the M5 put a supercar engine in a saloon and a new genre was born, Thema 8.32 being a close follow-on.


Lotus Cortina was 'just' a tuned Cortina, and more about the suspension that implanted supercar engine.

Firstly I'm sure you know exactly what I'm driving at, so no need to be difficult about it.

Secondly, I suspect it is a far stretch indeed to really call BMW a supercar maker in 1985. So the engine in the M5 is not really a supercar engine. (Yes I know there was the original M1, but still).

Third, I see no relevance that putting said engine in the BMW M5 makes it the "original" fast 4 door. As posted above, there were many many fast 4 door cars before the BMW M5. And it matters not if they did or didn't out gun the BMW M5, as they were from a previous era, thus the BMW M5 cannot be the "original" as it simply wasn't the first, not by decades.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Monday 29th April 11:58

[Ares]

300bhp/ton said:

Ares said:

What out-gunned the M5 by 1985?

Plenty of sporty saloons, but the M5 put a supercar engine in a saloon and a new genre was born, Thema 8.32 being a close follow-on.


Lotus Cortina was 'just' a tuned Cortina, and more about the suspension that implanted supercar engine.

Firstly I'm sure you know exactly what I'm driving at, so no need to be difficult about it.

Secondly, I suspect it is a far stretch indeed to really call BMW a supercar maker in 1985. So the engine in the M5 is not really a supercar engine. (Yes I know there was the original M1, but still).

Third, I see no relevance that putting said engine in the BMW M5 makes it the "original" fast 4 door. As posted above, there were many many fast 4 door cars before the BMW M5. And it matters not if they did or didn't out gun the BMW M5, as they were from a previous era, thus the BMW M5 cannot be the "original" as it simply wasn't the first, not by decades.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Monday 29th April 11:58

It was the notion of putting a supercar engine into a saloon car. That was the new genre, and has become a car industry defining one

....that Jag beat BMW to as it turns out. Before then, manufacturers, and third parties and (mostly) just tuned the fastest model to be a bit faster.

[Halmyre]

Ares said:

300bhp/ton said:

Ares said:

What out-gunned the M5 by 1985?

Plenty of sporty saloons, but the M5 put a supercar engine in a saloon and a new genre was born, Thema 8.32 being a close follow-on.


Lotus Cortina was 'just' a tuned Cortina, and more about the suspension that implanted supercar engine.

Firstly I'm sure you know exactly what I'm driving at, so no need to be difficult about it.

Secondly, I suspect it is a far stretch indeed to really call BMW a supercar maker in 1985. So the engine in the M5 is not really a supercar engine. (Yes I know there was the original M1, but still).

Third, I see no relevance that putting said engine in the BMW M5 makes it the "original" fast 4 door. As posted above, there were many many fast 4 door cars before the BMW M5. And it matters not if they did or didn't out gun the BMW M5, as they were from a previous era, thus the BMW M5 cannot be the "original" as it simply wasn't the first, not by decades.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Monday 29th April 11:58

It was the notion of putting a supercar engine into a saloon car. That was the new genre, and has become a car industry defining one

....that Jag beat BMW to as it turns out. Before then, manufacturers, and third parties and (mostly) just tuned the fastest model to be a bit faster.

But the cooking XK engine was the standard engine, and the racing engines were the highly tuned 'supercar' versions. Lyons had always intended the XK engine to be fitted to big comfy saloons and had to be persuaded firstly to put the XK120 into production and secondly to develop it as a racing car.

[robemcdonald]

Ares said:

Lotus Cortina was 'just' a tuned Cortina, and more about the suspension that implanted supercar engine.

I was hoping someone else would pick you up on this, but alas no.

The Lotus Cortina is quite a bit more than just a tuned Ford. The cars were assembled by Lotus in their factory. The engine (based on the Kent) had a specially designed 16v head designed by the guy that made the Coventry climax.

You could also make a case for the Kent engine being one of most important production engines in motorsport history unlike the M88 in the M5.

Anyway the Lotus Cortina was only a two door and therefor ineligible for this particular thread.

[Ares]

robemcdonald said:

Ares said:

Lotus Cortina was 'just' a tuned Cortina, and more about the suspension that implanted supercar engine.

I was hoping someone else would pick you up on this, but alas no.

The Lotus Cortina is quite a bit more than just a tuned Ford. The cars were assembled by Lotus in their factory. The engine (based on the Kent) had a specially designed 16v head designed by the guy that made the Coventry climax.

You could also make a case for the Kent engine being one of most important production engines in motorsport history unlike the M88 in the M5.

Anyway the Lotus Cortina was only a two door and therefor ineligible for this particular thread.

Every day is a school day! Thanks!

[SYC378L]

For me it has to be the Jag XJ Series 1. I fell in love with my Dad’s one as a toddler, to the extent that I bought my own 30 years later!

[LuS1fer]

Raygun said:

LuS1fer said:

The Jaguar Mk II 3.8 had 190hp at the start of the 1960s and had the same engine as the E-Type.

As much as they're an iconic car the look of them still takes you back to the 60's where's the XJ6 can fit in any decade since it's creation. I notice lots of people are posting photos of BMWs and Maseratis(own one myself) but they don't come close to the XJ6, the fact that the XJ6 is not a rare sight and has been prone to rust over the years has no relevance on the the title of this thread

Yes, I wasn't nominating it for its looks so much as citing it as a fast 4 door long before the M5.
190hp was a lot in 1960, outside the realms of exotica. Ask the bank robbers.

For me, the XJ is the thread winner as it is a timeless icon. the others are either Germanically geometrical and clinical or have details I don't like.
The 159 always looked good though.
What this thread does is perhaps show how the cars you were brought up with will influence what you perceive to be stylish.
To some extent, my nomination of the Batwing Impala was based on my attachment to a matchbox model i had, as a kid.

[coffeebreath]

Herbs said:

This back in the day as well.....

Edited by Herbs on Thursday 18th April 12:24

Edited by Herbs on Thursday 18th April 12:30

This every day!

[Leins]

coffeebreath said:

Herbs said:

This back in the day as well.....

This every day!

Maybe not the best looking, but for me certainly up there with the maddest. Only ever seen one out in the wild, and the attention it was getting was something else. A level above any LC, M3/M5 or the likes in that respect, one of these can rival an F40 for visual drama IMO

[warch]

[quote=SYC378L]For me it has to be the Jag XJ Series 1. I fell in love with my Dad’s one as a toddler, to the extent that I bought my own 30 years later!



That is lovely and a nice story behind it. 60s/70s luxury cars do have a nice interior vibe them that soulless modern cars in the same bracket simply don't have.*

• Conversely soulless modern luxury cars don't leak in the rain, start in all weathers, don't start rusting before they've left the factory and don't have that funny petrol smell.

[anonymous-user]

SYC378L said:

For me it has to be the Jag XJ Series 1. I fell in love with my Dad’s one as a toddler, to the extent that I bought my own 30 years later!

Fantastic looking car.

[Etypephil]

B'stard Child said:

LuS1fer said:

ChocolateFrog said:

The correct answer was in the 3rd post, God know what the following 31 pages are all about

Was it the XJ?

E39

He's got a good point

The E39 is a blob; it looked rubbish in 1995, and time hasn't been kind to it.

[DoubleD]

So after 32 pages the correct answer is....


Lots of different cars, depending on what each person likes.

[300bhp/ton]

Ares said:

It was the notion of putting a supercar engine into a saloon car. That was the new genre, and has become a car industry defining one

....that Jag beat BMW to as it turns out. Before then, manufacturers, and third parties and (mostly) just tuned the fastest model to be a bit faster.

I hear what you are saying, but I think your argument is a little flawed.

While in hindsight the M1 might look like a supercar, it seems to be labelled as a sports car:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M1


And I don't really see that BMW did anything extraordinary by using the engine, which was just a DOHC variant of an engine they already had and put it into their 6, 5 and 7 series cars.

I'm not saying it isn't a nice engine, but it's just a moderately small displacement S6. Hardly akin to the exotic V12's and the like found in most supercars.

The engine wasn't exactly a clean sheet exotic design just for a supercar, i.e. like the engine in the Bugatti EB110.


The M5 a cool car and fast yes, no denying at all. Supercar engine and original, I just can't see it.

[njw1]

Etypephil said:

The E39 is a blob; it looked rubbish in 1995, and time hasn't been kind to it.

Specsavers is that way >>>>>>>>>>.

[BrabusMog]

njw1 said:

Etypephil said:

The E39 is a blob; it looked rubbish in 1995, and time hasn't been kind to it.

Specsavers is that way >>>>>>>>>>.

lol, the e39 and e38 are the best designed cars since sliced bread.

[kambites]

Hmm, nope, not for me. I love the E39 M5 and would happily run a lesser E39 as a motorway hack but that's very much despite its looks not because of them. I couldn't call it ugly, but only because it's too bland to call ugly. It's a blob - aesthetically the Micra K11 of the saloon world.

[Leins]

Have always felt the E39 lost something in the looks department after the E34. That’s probably peak 5-series for me, especially in narrow kidney grille form

[Bago]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35630959@N07/4769414...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35630959@N07/4774694...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35630959@N07/4683022...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35630959@N07/3386987...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35630959@N07/3386987...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35630959@N07/4078038...