RE: Litchfield BMW M2 Competition: Driven
Discussion
Max_Torque said:
And will be an instant MOT fail......
(not to mention giving people cancer, so thanks for that!)
Apparently bacon gives you cancer nowadays too.(not to mention giving people cancer, so thanks for that!)
In fact nearly everything gives you cancer nowadays due to not dying from other things first.
Rather than this car and bacon I will eat turnips and drive a Yaris and die of Alzheimer's aged 113.
Woohoo
simonbamg said:
Zoon said:
Surely removing the particulate filter makes the car fall below Euro 6 standards?
Thanks for that useless contribution and spoiling a potentially joy filled thread G13NVL said:
So why did they fit them to diesels long before petrols? Genuine question not being an arse.
Quite simply because diesels were "direct injection common rail" well before Gasoline engines, and so the rule makes and manufacturers identified the significant particulate generation modes inherent in that architecture whilst pretty much all gasoline engines were port injected and hence, largely, low particulate producers..And of course, the average person can see the larger diesel soot particulates, and the manufacturers did not want people to see their cars "kicking out soot" hence many fitted DPFs before actually legally being mandated to do so. With Gasoline DI's you generally can't see the much smaller particulates that come out the back..........
Billy_Whizzzz said:
simonbamg said:
Zoon said:
Surely removing the particulate filter makes the car fall below Euro 6 standards?
Thanks for that useless contribution and spoiling a potentially joy filled thread (and before you label me as an "uninformed speculator" you might want to know i've spent over 20 years of my life as a powertrain calibration expert, directly responsible for Exhaust emissions on many OE projects.....)
simonbamg said:
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Well as an M2 Competition owner, I’m interested in whether or not it makes it fall below Euro 6 standards and what the consequences are.
Well Billy my advice would be to ask Litchfield rather than the speculators on here Max torque where did you get your info it affecting petrol cars and MOT?
Gandahar said:
Max_Torque said:
And will be an instant MOT fail......
(not to mention giving people cancer, so thanks for that!)
Apparently bacon gives you cancer nowadays too.(not to mention giving people cancer, so thanks for that!)
In fact nearly everything gives you cancer nowadays due to not dying from other things first.
Rather than this car and bacon I will eat turnips and drive a Yaris and die of Alzheimer's aged 113.
Woohoo
Cars are under increasing environmental pressure, and are seen by a large number of people as "the enemy". Giving those sorts of people, any more reason to hate cars, and to potentially remove freedoms associated with cars is a really stupid idea. Today, a car like the M2 requires by law the manufacturer to fit a GPF in order for that car to meet the emissions limits we as a society mandate our cars to meet. By removing that filter, although currently a bit of a grey area in the uk (pretty much illegal else where), you are basically saying "i don't care about your rules" and once one starts down that avenue, where do we all end up.............
Studies are increasingly showing a statistically significant correlation between a number of wide spread health issues and air pollution. You might make light of it and joke, but i bet if you, a family member or one of your kids, suffers from chronic asthma (or any number of other conditions linked to air quality) then you'd be a lot less flippant.......
Gandahar said:
simonbamg said:
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Well as an M2 Competition owner, I’m interested in whether or not it makes it fall below Euro 6 standards and what the consequences are.
Well Billy my advice would be to ask Litchfield rather than the speculators on here Max torque where did you get your info it affecting petrol cars and MOT?
Max_Torque said:
Gandahar said:
Max_Torque said:
And will be an instant MOT fail......
(not to mention giving people cancer, so thanks for that!)
Apparently bacon gives you cancer nowadays too.(not to mention giving people cancer, so thanks for that!)
In fact nearly everything gives you cancer nowadays due to not dying from other things first.
Rather than this car and bacon I will eat turnips and drive a Yaris and die of Alzheimer's aged 113.
Woohoo
Cars are under increasing environmental pressure, and are seen by a large number of people as "the enemy". Giving those sorts of people, any more reason to hate cars, and to potentially remove freedoms associated with cars is a really stupid idea. Today, a car like the M2 requires by law the manufacturer to fit a GPF in order for that car to meet the emissions limits we as a society mandate our cars to meet. By removing that filter, although currently a bit of a grey area in the uk (pretty much illegal else where), you are basically saying "i don't care about your rules" and once one starts down that avenue, where do we all end up.............
Studies are increasingly showing a statistically significant correlation between a number of wide spread health issues and air pollution. You might make light of it and joke, but i bet if you, a family member or one of your kids, suffers from chronic asthma (or any number of other conditions linked to air quality) then you'd be a lot less flippant.......
Max_Torque said:
Removing the DPF will make the car fail the EU6 particulate limits enourmously. And if they have radically modified the fuel mass or ignition angle to get more power (which they will have) then the likelyhood is that the car will also fail the Hydrocarbon and Nitrogen Oxide limits too.
(and before you label me as an "uninformed speculator" you might want to know i've spent over 20 years of my life as a powertrain calibration expert, directly responsible for Exhaust emissions on many OE projects.....)
But do you work for Litchfield or have full knowledge of the modifications they do, I already know the answer to that, sounds like an interesting 20 years you had (and before you label me as an "uninformed speculator" you might want to know i've spent over 20 years of my life as a powertrain calibration expert, directly responsible for Exhaust emissions on many OE projects.....)
Max_Torque said:
Gandahar said:
simonbamg said:
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Well as an M2 Competition owner, I’m interested in whether or not it makes it fall below Euro 6 standards and what the consequences are.
Well Billy my advice would be to ask Litchfield rather than the speculators on here Max torque where did you get your info it affecting petrol cars and MOT?
Keep up the good work....
Gandahar said:
Max_Torque said:
Gandahar said:
simonbamg said:
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Well as an M2 Competition owner, I’m interested in whether or not it makes it fall below Euro 6 standards and what the consequences are.
Well Billy my advice would be to ask Litchfield rather than the speculators on here Max torque where did you get your info it affecting petrol cars and MOT?
Keep up the good work....
If we as car enthusiasts want the government to continue allow us to modify our cars pretty much as we wish then it needs to be done responsibly, before somebody in the government decides actually you cant modify your exhaust from factory spec at all, for any reason…
Big companies like Litchfield should be leading the thinking at things like this, figuring out a way to make the power they want “with” the GPF, not jyst binning it because they dont like it.
CousinDupree said:
Don't worry, it'll be more entertaining when it fails it's MOT.
i think it was established up thread it probably won't. i also doubt anyone on here would struggle to find a garage to pass it in the unlikely event it did. looks to be a fantastic car with serious power, how on earth does a thread discussing it end up going in this direction 
I'm sorry to say, but we car enthusiasts need to wake up and wake up fast. The (car) world is changing, and changing faster than ever before. Young people today are not interested in cars any more, and our numbers are dwindling, which makes "banning stuff" very easy for those politicians and law makers who want an easy ride. The public is now more aware of air pollution and climate change than ever before, and whatever your personal opinion on the subject, the pressures on cars to be "green" (what ever that actually means or is even though to mean!) is going to increase. And as EV's with zero tailpipe emissions increasingly gain traction in the market place, the average person is very, very quickly going to see ICE vehicles as old tech and "polluting" irregardless of their actual levels of emissions. IMO, and i've had plenty of exposure to various political and governmental groups as an EV consultant over the past 5 years, it's going to become socially unacceptable to modify your car, and closely on the heals of that, or possibly before (given enough lobbying by large and well connected "anti-car" groups) there will be legislation to back it up. Today removing the DPF is an MOT fail, rumor has it, next year GPF will be added, and certain groups are already lobbying to try to get all cars to only fit OE parts on anything that could have an economy or emissions impact (which is basically anything).
Like any indirect effect, the statically proven link between air pollution and public health isn't interesting to any particular individual, despite being of interest to us as a species. More and more people, people who don't have any interest in cars are understanding and even being effected by that cause and effect. It won't take much lobbying from "mumsnet against air pollution" or who-ever for the easy-life knee jerk polliticians, who also have no interest in modifying cars to just ban and exhaust line mods, lock,stock 'n barrel with one sweep of their pen. I've even talked to some in government who would like to do just that today... So sure, call me an idiot, tell me it doesn't matter, but don't come running to me crying when you find your "car freedoms" have suddenly been removed.......
Like any indirect effect, the statically proven link between air pollution and public health isn't interesting to any particular individual, despite being of interest to us as a species. More and more people, people who don't have any interest in cars are understanding and even being effected by that cause and effect. It won't take much lobbying from "mumsnet against air pollution" or who-ever for the easy-life knee jerk polliticians, who also have no interest in modifying cars to just ban and exhaust line mods, lock,stock 'n barrel with one sweep of their pen. I've even talked to some in government who would like to do just that today... So sure, call me an idiot, tell me it doesn't matter, but don't come running to me crying when you find your "car freedoms" have suddenly been removed.......
I can very much sympathise with your post and the problems we will have to face in the future.
I think the debate about the "future of modifying cars" is a valid one but for now I know thousands (not literally lol) of young people (and old people too!) who love cars and many people who also run their own businesses providing servicing and specifically modification of cars. So for the government to say that they are outright banning would put many thousands of families literally out on the streets as well as removing the money from the economy , VAT , people employed etc...
I don't think the odd person fitting a DPF delete or Sports / de cat will register any difference - I get your point, fitting one is a birdie up to the rules I'd like to know the actual percentage of cars which have a decat / dpf / gpf delete fitted, it's got to be <1% of total cars on the road ??
it's not like if the whole car modification community said "ok let's collectively agree to only ever fit a sports cat at most and not remove any nox filters" that government would just go away and leave us alone.
It would continue to be very much a "walls are closing in!" moment unfortunately.
For me before I had DPF , diesels etc, but for my current project I am specifically paying through the nose to get a sports cat rather than a decat so it will still meet the relevant emissions tests for my 2014MY car. Baby steps :-)
I think the debate about the "future of modifying cars" is a valid one but for now I know thousands (not literally lol) of young people (and old people too!) who love cars and many people who also run their own businesses providing servicing and specifically modification of cars. So for the government to say that they are outright banning would put many thousands of families literally out on the streets as well as removing the money from the economy , VAT , people employed etc...
I don't think the odd person fitting a DPF delete or Sports / de cat will register any difference - I get your point, fitting one is a birdie up to the rules I'd like to know the actual percentage of cars which have a decat / dpf / gpf delete fitted, it's got to be <1% of total cars on the road ??
it's not like if the whole car modification community said "ok let's collectively agree to only ever fit a sports cat at most and not remove any nox filters" that government would just go away and leave us alone.
It would continue to be very much a "walls are closing in!" moment unfortunately.
For me before I had DPF , diesels etc, but for my current project I am specifically paying through the nose to get a sports cat rather than a decat so it will still meet the relevant emissions tests for my 2014MY car. Baby steps :-)
Edited by xjay1337 on Thursday 18th April 22:36
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