RE: Litchfield BMW M2 Competition: Driven
Discussion
xjay1337 said:
Billy_Whizzzz said:
As a fully fledged car nut, it shocks me at the ignorance of many petrol heads. Screw the planet, screw everyone else - as long as I’m ok and my car can be as noisy and polluting as I like.
What's the view like from up there?Maybe either by a Prius and shut up, or be a little less ostentatious.
xjay1337 said:
Point remains that a lot more is happening, despite coal. Proper reaction is, China should address coal, not, 'now I don't have to do anything'. Shocking to see the UK is worse than the US. Really? I'm from Sweden by the way, by far the most petrolhead friendly country of the Nordics, see where my attitude got me 
Edited by Onehp on Sunday 21st April 08:03
Max_Torque said:
I'm sorry to say, but we car enthusiasts need to wake up and wake up fast. The (car) world is changing, and changing faster than ever before. Young people today are not interested in cars any more, and our numbers are dwindling, which makes "banning stuff" very easy for those politicians and law makers who want an easy ride. The public is now more aware of air pollution and climate change than ever before, and whatever your personal opinion on the subject, the pressures on cars to be "green" (what ever that actually means or is even though to mean!) is going to increase. And as EV's with zero tailpipe emissions increasingly gain traction in the market place, the average person is very, very quickly going to see ICE vehicles as old tech and "polluting" irregardless of their actual levels of emissions. IMO, and i've had plenty of exposure to various political and governmental groups as an EV consultant over the past 5 years, it's going to become socially unacceptable to modify your car, and closely on the heals of that, or possibly before (given enough lobbying by large and well connected "anti-car" groups) there will be legislation to back it up. Today removing the DPF is an MOT fail, rumor has it, next year GPF will be added, and certain groups are already lobbying to try to get all cars to only fit OE parts on anything that could have an economy or emissions impact (which is basically anything).
Like any indirect effect, the statically proven link between air pollution and public health isn't interesting to any particular individual, despite being of interest to us as a species. More and more people, people who don't have any interest in cars are understanding and even being effected by that cause and effect. It won't take much lobbying from "mumsnet against air pollution" or who-ever for the easy-life knee jerk polliticians, who also have no interest in modifying cars to just ban and exhaust line mods, lock,stock 'n barrel with one sweep of their pen. I've even talked to some in government who would like to do just that today... So sure, call me an idiot, tell me it doesn't matter, but don't come running to me crying when you find your "car freedoms" have suddenly been removed.......
Stopped reading after I came across the highlighted word, or lack thereof. Like any indirect effect, the statically proven link between air pollution and public health isn't interesting to any particular individual, despite being of interest to us as a species. More and more people, people who don't have any interest in cars are understanding and even being effected by that cause and effect. It won't take much lobbying from "mumsnet against air pollution" or who-ever for the easy-life knee jerk polliticians, who also have no interest in modifying cars to just ban and exhaust line mods, lock,stock 'n barrel with one sweep of their pen. I've even talked to some in government who would like to do just that today... So sure, call me an idiot, tell me it doesn't matter, but don't come running to me crying when you find your "car freedoms" have suddenly been removed.......
ben5575 said:
330bhp/tonne is not to be sniffed at. Particularly when the E30 Evo was c.175bhp/tonne (and as a Caterham owner I get lightweight cars)
I went away to find images of what this would look like on M666's and came back to find that the end is nigh...
520bhp for £720
In case you were interested in what it sounds like (caution Schmee content) https://youtu.be/Jen978ZzMLw?t=574
Aftermarket exhaust there though.I went away to find images of what this would look like on M666's and came back to find that the end is nigh...
520bhp for £720
In case you were interested in what it sounds like (caution Schmee content) https://youtu.be/Jen978ZzMLw?t=574
TX.
Ah, I read it as 520bhp with the chip, 540bhp with the chip + exhaust. Either way it's a lot! 
The article said:
You'll need the titanium Akrapovic cat-back exhaust system to get the full 540hp, although given that it costs £7,067 you might prefer to go without and make do with 520hp instead.
ben5575 said:
Ah, I read it as 520bhp with the chip, 540bhp with the chip + exhaust. Either way it's a lot!
Any exhaust would do as good of a job for £1500 tops. The article said:
You'll need the titanium Akrapovic cat-back exhaust system to get the full 540hp, although given that it costs £7,067 you might prefer to go without and make do with 520hp instead.
Akra prices are a PISS TAKE.
Go to any exhaust shop and they will custom make it. It's mostly 2 series / M2 anyway which is not complicated.
The only hard parts would be the downpipe (which is not touched in this example)
Not forgetting some places just charge you more because you turn up in a nice car , take a Golf Mk4 in, that's £500 please, same bit of pipe on another more expensive car , triple the price!!
Ps without even doing any searching nor asking for any discount :
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-2-Series-M2-Competi...
£1800 for an equivalent
To buy without Ebay fees would already take the price to £1650.
People paying thousands and thousands for exhaust systems need their head testing -
Honestly what do you think is different from an Akrapovic to for example a Scorpion at 40% of the price?
Other than the fact people think "oooh you have Akrapovic".
The only hard parts would be the downpipe (which is not touched in this example)
Not forgetting some places just charge you more because you turn up in a nice car , take a Golf Mk4 in, that's £500 please, same bit of pipe on another more expensive car , triple the price!!
Ps without even doing any searching nor asking for any discount :
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-2-Series-M2-Competi...
£1800 for an equivalent
To buy without Ebay fees would already take the price to £1650.
People paying thousands and thousands for exhaust systems need their head testing -
Honestly what do you think is different from an Akrapovic to for example a Scorpion at 40% of the price?
Other than the fact people think "oooh you have Akrapovic".
Edited by xjay1337 on Sunday 21st April 21:10
That’s a really big topic to bring up.
On the one hand, you’re definitely right. Akrapovic spend a lot of money on advertising and that’s added right on top of the bottom line. You’re definitely paying for it.
On the other hand, the custom “in the workshop” pipe hasn’t had a single test or dyno run and so whilst you’re not paying for a dyno run or test you are hoping that exhaust tech is as easy as a quickly welded pipe done to the thought process of the guy wielding the tools at the time.
Unfortunately I don’t believe that it is that simple and that’s what makes choosing a replacement exhaust a very difficult decision.
On the one hand, you’re definitely right. Akrapovic spend a lot of money on advertising and that’s added right on top of the bottom line. You’re definitely paying for it.
On the other hand, the custom “in the workshop” pipe hasn’t had a single test or dyno run and so whilst you’re not paying for a dyno run or test you are hoping that exhaust tech is as easy as a quickly welded pipe done to the thought process of the guy wielding the tools at the time.
Unfortunately I don’t believe that it is that simple and that’s what makes choosing a replacement exhaust a very difficult decision.
Julian Thompson said:
That’s a really big topic to bring up.
On the one hand, you’re definitely right. Akrapovic spend a lot of money on advertising and that’s added right on top of the bottom line. You’re definitely paying for it.
On the other hand, the custom “in the workshop” pipe hasn’t had a single test or dyno run and so whilst you’re not paying for a dyno run or test you are hoping that exhaust tech is as easy as a quickly welded pipe done to the thought process of the guy wielding the tools at the time.
Unfortunately I don’t believe that it is that simple and that’s what makes choosing a replacement exhaust a very difficult decision.
What is difference between a piece of Akrapovic exhaust pipe and a custom one? (Bearing in mind custom is all mandrel bent and tig welded). On the one hand, you’re definitely right. Akrapovic spend a lot of money on advertising and that’s added right on top of the bottom line. You’re definitely paying for it.
On the other hand, the custom “in the workshop” pipe hasn’t had a single test or dyno run and so whilst you’re not paying for a dyno run or test you are hoping that exhaust tech is as easy as a quickly welded pipe done to the thought process of the guy wielding the tools at the time.
Unfortunately I don’t believe that it is that simple and that’s what makes choosing a replacement exhaust a very difficult decision.
Dynos can be very easily manipulated, and at the end of the day pipe is pipe............ Trust me on that one.
Anyway as I said I've linked a Scorpion (still a big brand) for 1/3rd the price..
xjay1337 said:
Julian Thompson said:
That’s a really big topic to bring up.
On the one hand, you’re definitely right. Akrapovic spend a lot of money on advertising and that’s added right on top of the bottom line. You’re definitely paying for it.
On the other hand, the custom “in the workshop” pipe hasn’t had a single test or dyno run and so whilst you’re not paying for a dyno run or test you are hoping that exhaust tech is as easy as a quickly welded pipe done to the thought process of the guy wielding the tools at the time.
Unfortunately I don’t believe that it is that simple and that’s what makes choosing a replacement exhaust a very difficult decision.
What is difference between a piece of Akrapovic exhaust pipe and a custom one? (Bearing in mind custom is all mandrel bent and tig welded). On the one hand, you’re definitely right. Akrapovic spend a lot of money on advertising and that’s added right on top of the bottom line. You’re definitely paying for it.
On the other hand, the custom “in the workshop” pipe hasn’t had a single test or dyno run and so whilst you’re not paying for a dyno run or test you are hoping that exhaust tech is as easy as a quickly welded pipe done to the thought process of the guy wielding the tools at the time.
Unfortunately I don’t believe that it is that simple and that’s what makes choosing a replacement exhaust a very difficult decision.
Dynos can be very easily manipulated, and at the end of the day pipe is pipe............ Trust me on that one.
Anyway as I said I've linked a Scorpion (still a big brand) for 1/3rd the price..
I’m not suggesting that there is anything wrong with the approach, but I am suggesting that as well as paying for a load of marketing guff you’ll probably also be paying in most cases for a bit of (hopefully) valuable development time too.
When looking at litchfield tuning ‘stages’ they always have either akraprovic or miltek options and the miltek is always a good few thousand less and they still come valved if you want that can’t be that much difference between the two to justify the price difference surely? Or I’d be interested to know what is different.
G13NVL said:
When looking at litchfield tuning ‘stages’ they always have either akraprovic or miltek options and the miltek is always a good few thousand less and they still come valved if you want that can’t be that much difference between the two to justify the price difference surely? Or I’d be interested to know what is different.
The Akra system is Titanium to start with, just over 10kg lighter than the standard system. And from what i have seen recently, the quality of Milltek systems is not what it used to be…Warby80 said:
G13NVL said:
When looking at litchfield tuning ‘stages’ they always have either akraprovic or miltek options and the miltek is always a good few thousand less and they still come valved if you want that can’t be that much difference between the two to justify the price difference surely? Or I’d be interested to know what is different.
The Akra system is Titanium to start with, just over 10kg lighter than the standard system. And from what i have seen recently, the quality of Milltek systems is not what it used to be…G13NVL said:
But is 10kg really worth the £3k difference? Suppose if was a long keeper car the better quality may be worth it or if you put back to standard when selling I’m sure there would be a good few takers for a cheaper second hand akra.
Personally I'd rather to down the gym for a couple of months rather than spend the £3k extra for an Akra vs a Scorpion. Same people who spec the Akra probably spec all the other options which offset the neglible weight difference.
It's purely to say "I've got akra" and as evidenced by some posters their strategy is clearly working".
xjay1337 said:
Personally I'd rather to down the gym for a couple of months rather than spend the £3k extra for an Akra vs a Scorpion.
Same people who spec the Akra probably spec all the other options which offset the neglible weight difference.
It's purely to say "I've got akra" and as evidenced by some posters their strategy is clearly working".
I'm not sure if it's still the case but Scorpion & Akrapovic were/are the same company, but cater to different parts of the market.Same people who spec the Akra probably spec all the other options which offset the neglible weight difference.
It's purely to say "I've got akra" and as evidenced by some posters their strategy is clearly working".
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