RE: BMW Z4 M40i vs. Porsche Boxster GTS
Discussion
E65Ross said:
I'd have to drive them both, but the boxster would have to be miles and miles better to drive, because that 4 pot engine in there sounds so incredibly dreary, especially in comparison to that straight 6.
You said you'd have to drive them both. And then you say the 4 pot is dreary compared to the 6, how can you say that if you haven't driven them?People just jump on what the journalists say and what they "hear" in youtube vids,
boitjie said:
You said you'd have to drive them both. And then you say the 4 pot is dreary compared to the 6, how can you say that if you haven't driven them?
People just jump on what the journalists say and what they "hear" in youtube vids,
You can be a passenger in a car in still have ears, you can hear a car drive by and have ears...People just jump on what the journalists say and what they "hear" in youtube vids,
And yes, even in youtube vids they still sound s
t compared to the 6.130R said:
George Smiley said:
The four pot is dreary, terrible like a high revving diesel. Sound is awful. It’s a fast boring place to be. Gearbox is terrible in anything less than sports plus mode.
Complete rubbish. You are clueless.They gave me a 718s for a week as a courtesy car.
Glad they did, made the decision very simple. Not a patch on the previous NA
However I bought a mini jcw whilst not as fast it is immeasurably better in every conceivable measure, fun, looks, engine sounds good, drives far better and is light years ahead a nicer place to sit in.
George Smiley said:
However I bought a mini jcw whilst not as fast it is immeasurably better in every conceivable measure, fun, looks, engine sounds good, drives far better and is light years ahead a nicer place to sit in.
Yeah if you think a mini is better to drive than a mid engined Porsche then it's definitely not worth you getting a sports car. You made the right choice.130R said:
George Smiley said:
However I bought a mini jcw whilst not as fast it is immeasurably better in every conceivable measure, fun, looks, engine sounds good, drives far better and is light years ahead a nicer place to sit in.
Yeah if you think a mini is better to drive than a mid engined Porsche then it's definitely not worth you getting a sports car. You made the right choice.Do you think it’s impossible for a car costing 1/4 of the Porsche is not capable of putting a bigger element of fun into the ownership experience?
I can tell you it does (for me). The 718 failed to deliver on my preconceptions based on track and road time in the 981. The mini smashed expectations and for a road legal speed experience it wins.
Interior is better, feels much better built. It puts the panamera to shame in some regards.
130R said:
George Smiley said:
Do you think it’s impossible for a car costing 1/4 of the Porsche is not capable of putting a bigger element of fun into the ownership experience?
It's not remotely in the same league as a drivers car. Anyway you obviously like it so enjoy your car.Mini same roads pissed myself laughing at just how capable it is, so bought it.
Just saying that the 4pot in the 718 whilst powerful and in a good chassis it’s boring
George Smiley said:
pissed myself
You'll find help on this link, https://www.incontinencechoice.co.uk/shop-by-brand...rockin said:
Poor chap thinks he's graduated to automotive nirvana with 4-door saloon barge - the vast majority of which are sold as diesel...
Some people just aren't cut out for sports cars!
Jcw 4 door? Anyway I’ve given a non- read on the internet opinion. A real experience opinion. One could argue if you find the 718 as an entertaining drive then you haven’t experienced fun. Some people just aren't cut out for sports cars!
George Smiley said:
130R said:
George Smiley said:
Do you think it’s impossible for a car costing 1/4 of the Porsche is not capable of putting a bigger element of fun into the ownership experience?
It's not remotely in the same league as a drivers car. Anyway you obviously like it so enjoy your car.Mini same roads pissed myself laughing at just how capable it is, so bought it.
George Smiley said:
E65Ross said:
But the mini isn't as capable as the 718S....?
Isn’t it? In what wayI'm not defending the Porsche or knocking the mini, but I'd bet my house that from a performance perspective the Porsche IS faster.
George Smiley said:
No. I was a prospective buyer
They gave me a 718s for a week as a courtesy car.
Glad they did, made the decision very simple. Not a patch on the previous NA
However I bought a mini jcw whilst not as fast it is immeasurably better in every conceivable measure, fun, looks, engine sounds good, drives far better and is light years ahead a nicer place to sit in.
They gave me a 718s for a week as a courtesy car.
Glad they did, made the decision very simple. Not a patch on the previous NA
However I bought a mini jcw whilst not as fast it is immeasurably better in every conceivable measure, fun, looks, engine sounds good, drives far better and is light years ahead a nicer place to sit in.
George Smiley said:
Interior is better, feels much better built. It puts the panamera to shame in some regards.
I find myself bewildered by this.I have owned a Cooper S for two years and a 718CS for one year. I've tracked a 718CS at the PEC too. Though I've not owned a JCW I have driven them, though not on the track.
The MINI is great fun to drive, yes, but it had awful build quality. I had four faults and one factory recall in those two years of ownership. It really was fairly shoddy, and the interior did feel rather low-rent and chintzy.
The Cayman had an excellent interior. Solid build quality throughout, great tech, and the seats were superb.
In terms of driving, well one is a mid-engined, two-seater, low-slung, rear-wheel drive sports car, designed from the ground up to be such, the other is a front-wheel drive semi-hot hatch designed to be sold to the mainstream where cost-saving aimed at competitive pricing is a priority. The two are not in the same market.
The results are as you would expect. The MINI is like any FWD hatch in terms of dynamics, sub-par when compared to RWD, and sub-par when compared to mid-engined placement. The torque steer in the MINI, whilst great fun and faintly hilarious, is correspondingly awful in terms of dynamics. With the JCW it is just more pronounced. The Cayman corners superbly and gives great confidence, as you'd expect. This is the job it is designed to do, which is not the case for the MINI. It seems faintly ridiculous to me to be comparing the two when they are just not in the same market.
Similarly for the suspension set up. The relatively tall MINI rolls and loosens up through the corners. Admittedly fun, but it it is still apples and oranges when compared to the Cayman. Without PASM the Cayman's ride is supple and grippy through the corners. With PASM the suppleness gives more confidence and is improved. This is more noticeable on the track than on the road. Again it seems ridiculous to me to compare these two when they are not in the same market.
The engine, well enough press has been given to Porsche's move from the F6 to the F4. I preferred the induced engine over the more asthmatic NA, it did feel quicker and I liked the lunge the turbine provides, which is why I went for the F4 over the F6, despite the controversial sound. With the MINI, well it's a four-pot lump up at the front giving sub-200hp in the S and a mere 228hp in the JCW. Not a lot in hot-hatch terms which are over 300hp these days, and substantially down on the 350hp of the Cayman S. With both the JCW and 718CS having a kerb weight of around 1,350 kg, it is, yet again, not a realistic comparison between the two, reflected in a ~4.2s 0-62 time for the Cayman S and a relatively pedestrian 6.3s 0-62 time for the JCW, or 6.8s for the S.
Now this is all relatively objective, sure. One is a sports-car the other is a luke-warm hatch. Objectively that's the end of it, the two are not comparable.
Subjectively, none of this applies really. We all have a thousand different subjective reasons for buying a thousand different cars. I am possibly in the market for another S or a JCW as a second car, because they are fantastic fun, subjectively, for me. On this, I agree with you. So long as they can sort out the build-quality, and on that I don't agree with you, as the MINI is not good currently.
Edited by Tim bo on Friday 26th April 08:41
Tim bo said:
George Smiley said:
No. I was a prospective buyer
They gave me a 718s for a week as a courtesy car.
Glad they did, made the decision very simple. Not a patch on the previous NA
However I bought a mini jcw whilst not as fast it is immeasurably better in every conceivable measure, fun, looks, engine sounds good, drives far better and is light years ahead a nicer place to sit in.
They gave me a 718s for a week as a courtesy car.
Glad they did, made the decision very simple. Not a patch on the previous NA
However I bought a mini jcw whilst not as fast it is immeasurably better in every conceivable measure, fun, looks, engine sounds good, drives far better and is light years ahead a nicer place to sit in.
George Smiley said:
Interior is better, feels much better built. It puts the panamera to shame in some regards.
I find myself bewildered by this.I have owned a Cooper S for two years and a 718CS for one year. I've tracked a 718CS at the PEC too. Though I've not owned a JCW I have driven them, though not on the track.
The MINI is great fun to drive, yes, but it had awful build quality. I had four faults and one factory recall in those two years of ownership. It really was fairly shoddy, and the interior did feel rather low-rent and chintzy.
The Cayman had an excellent interior. Solid build quality throughout, great tech, and the seats were superb.
In terms of driving, well one is a mid-engined, two-seater, low-slung, rear-wheel drive sports car, designed from the ground up to be such, the other is a front-wheel drive semi-hot hatch designed to be sold to the mainstream where cost-saving aimed at competitive pricing is a priority. The two are not in the same market.
The results are as you would expect. The MINI is like any FWD hatch in terms of dynamics, sub-par when compared to RWD, and sub-par when compared to mid-engined placement. The torque steer in the MINI, whilst great fun and faintly hilarious, is correspondingly awful in terms of dynamics. With the JCW it is just more pronounced. The Cayman corners superbly and gives great confidence, as you'd expect. This is the job it is designed to do, which is not the case for the MINI. It seems faintly ridiculous to me to be comparing the two when they are just not in the same market.
Similarly for the suspension set up. The relatively tall MINI rolls and loosens up through the corners. Admittedly fun, but it it is still apples and oranges when compared to the Cayman. Without PASM the Cayman's ride is supple and grippy through the corners. With PASM the suppleness gives more confidence and is improved. This is more noticeable on the track than on the road. Again it seems ridiculous to me to compare these two when they are not in the same market.
The engine, well enough press has been given to Porsche's move from the F6 to the F4. I preferred the induced engine over the more asthmatic NA, it did feel quicker and I liked the lunge the turbine provides, which is why I went for the F4 over the F6, despite the controversial sound. With the MINI, well it's a four-pot lump up at the front giving sub-200hp in the S and a mere 228hp in the JCW. Not a lot in hot-hatch terms which are over 300hp these days, and substantially down on the 350hp of the Cayman S. With both the JCW and 718CS having a kerb weight of around 1,350 kg, it is, yet again, not a realistic comparison between the two, reflected in a ~4.2s 0-62 time for the Cayman S and a relatively pedestrian 6.3s 0-62 time for the JCW, or 6.8s for the S.
Now this is all relatively objective, sure. One is a sports-car the other is a luke-warm hatch. Objectively that's the end of it, the two are not comparable.
Subjectively, none of this applies really. We all have a thousand different subjective reasons for buying a thousand different cars. I am possibly in the market for another S or a JCW as a second car, because they are fantastic fun, subjectively, for me. On this, I agree with you. So long as they can sort out the build-quality, and on that I don't agree with you, as the MINI is not good currently.
Edited by Tim bo on Friday 26th April 08:41
It’s not a case of defending you choice to destroy the other. Yes the mini is way down on power but I chose that direction precisely because of what my weeks test drive taught me about the 718
I love all cars and wouldn’t berate someone’s ability or taste if they chose a car I wouldn’t, I just gave an independent analysis of my choice based on the 4 pot Porsche engine
I stand by my analysis of the build, the interior , the noise and the gearbox. I must be a ste driver but in the real world where these cars are typically being driven my back to back with both very different propositions made it worthwhile mentioning
Everyone was getting hung up on whether posters with opinions were just relating to what they’ve read or the price or model comparisons
After time with the 981, that was exactly the same level of enjoyment the 718 failed to match up to. It was simply boring in comparison that all the other issues you forgave the 981 for just became exaggerated
Power figures mean nothing any more, more than 400 is a waste and I’d argue mid 200 is the sweet spot.
I love all cars and wouldn’t berate someone’s ability or taste if they chose a car I wouldn’t, I just gave an independent analysis of my choice based on the 4 pot Porsche engine
I stand by my analysis of the build, the interior , the noise and the gearbox. I must be a s
te driver but in the real world where these cars are typically being driven my back to back with both very different propositions made it worthwhile mentioning Everyone was getting hung up on whether posters with opinions were just relating to what they’ve read or the price or model comparisons
After time with the 981, that was exactly the same level of enjoyment the 718 failed to match up to. It was simply boring in comparison that all the other issues you forgave the 981 for just became exaggerated
Power figures mean nothing any more, more than 400 is a waste and I’d argue mid 200 is the sweet spot.
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