RE: Tesla Full Self Driving: Time For Tea
Discussion
fblm said:
...against releasing a product which they know will ksi thousands of people? Sketchy stuff. I suppose there are parallels with pharma but I don't know how their liability insurance works.
The difference is that currently insurance picks up repair and medical costs. Rarely do people sue the driver for damages. If your car crashes you, you'll be claiming repair, medical and damages. IANAL or insurance expert but I'd guess, if not in the UK then the US, that a manufacturer that releases a car that they know with some certainty will KSI x thousand people is going to struggle in front of a class action jury.
I agree that the problem is not irresolvable; once they are as good as humans I don't think it will take long at all for them to be much, much safer and it will be a moot point.
How do you decide if they are as good as humans though? Lets subject them to the same driving standard as humans and make them do a driving test, if they pass then surely they have proved to at least as good as humans so should be allowed to be set free on the roads? If they fail they can take the test again as many times as they like, just like humans.The difference is that currently insurance picks up repair and medical costs. Rarely do people sue the driver for damages. If your car crashes you, you'll be claiming repair, medical and damages. IANAL or insurance expert but I'd guess, if not in the UK then the US, that a manufacturer that releases a car that they know with some certainty will KSI x thousand people is going to struggle in front of a class action jury.
I agree that the problem is not irresolvable; once they are as good as humans I don't think it will take long at all for them to be much, much safer and it will be a moot point.
The difference is that the car won't have been kept up all night by a sick child so won't be tired tomorrow morning. It hasn't just finished a 14 hour shift in a hospital ward. Isn't thinking about the person their partner is having an affair with.
Ultimately the insurance companies will dictate when we stop driving for ourselves because they will make it cheaper for self driving cars.
My view on all this.
Firstly we are all sat here debating, ultimately this will come into play in the future and will be part of the norm. We might not like it but it will happen one day.
Having watched and studied a few videos of Tesla and Musk, despite of his current financial situation with the company he is trying to set the foundations and effectively be an industry leader for self driving cars.
Good luck to him.
Firstly we are all sat here debating, ultimately this will come into play in the future and will be part of the norm. We might not like it but it will happen one day.
Having watched and studied a few videos of Tesla and Musk, despite of his current financial situation with the company he is trying to set the foundations and effectively be an industry leader for self driving cars.
Good luck to him.
Is "Penetrate and patch" a solution against hackers? Pwn2Own competition exposes Tesla weakness.
As for the much lauded aircraft tech, see 737 problems and multiple reports of shoddy build on 787.
As for the much lauded aircraft tech, see 737 problems and multiple reports of shoddy build on 787.
fblm said:
MiniMan64 said:
Serious negativity in this thread and a lot of Tesla hate that seems to permeate the whole forum.
Very odd.
Not really. It's a natural reaction to the nauseating fanboism and the tragic schadenfreude found in most EV threads... you know the guy who lives with his mum and drives a crappy ICE car laughing at the 'dinosaur juice burning' super car driver because the Tesla roadster promises to be faster.Very odd.
Fiesta1.0L said:
Daylight. Effectively zero traffic. Wide roads, good surface quality, clear markings. Known, chosen route.
This stuff is a decade away from deployment in most parts of the world.
This is also their video, under their conditions. They could hae 100 people controlling this, and a supercomputer in the back of the van following behind. It could be the 20th take of the video.
Tesla is out of money. Musk is about to do a placement so trying to pump the share price for all it's worth. Treat this with a gargntuan pinch of bull sh*t.
I had a test drive in a Model S recently which included some autonomous driving in East London. It wasn’t the level of control that this video showed, but it was still impressive on a very busy road on a dull grey day.This stuff is a decade away from deployment in most parts of the world.
This is also their video, under their conditions. They could hae 100 people controlling this, and a supercomputer in the back of the van following behind. It could be the 20th take of the video.
Tesla is out of money. Musk is about to do a placement so trying to pump the share price for all it's worth. Treat this with a gargntuan pinch of bull sh*t.
It was impressive enough that I decided to spend the money to buy one, and hope to take delivery next month after which I’m looking forward to seeing how much of a difference it makes on one of my longer, more boring drives.
Tony-K said:
Fiesta1.0L said:
Daylight. Effectively zero traffic. Wide roads, good surface quality, clear markings. Known, chosen route.
This stuff is a decade away from deployment in most parts of the world.
This is also their video, under their conditions. They could hae 100 people controlling this, and a supercomputer in the back of the van following behind. It could be the 20th take of the video.
Tesla is out of money. Musk is about to do a placement so trying to pump the share price for all it's worth. Treat this with a gargntuan pinch of bull sh*t.
I had a test drive in a Model S recently which included some autonomous driving in East London. It wasn’t the level of control that this video showed, but it was still impressive on a very busy road on a dull grey day.This stuff is a decade away from deployment in most parts of the world.
This is also their video, under their conditions. They could hae 100 people controlling this, and a supercomputer in the back of the van following behind. It could be the 20th take of the video.
Tesla is out of money. Musk is about to do a placement so trying to pump the share price for all it's worth. Treat this with a gargntuan pinch of bull sh*t.
It was impressive enough that I decided to spend the money to buy one, and hope to take delivery next month after which I’m looking forward to seeing how much of a difference it makes on one of my longer, more boring drives.
Public roads should not be their test track IMHO.
swisstoni said:
Can it be legal?
Public roads should not be their test track IMHO.
Yes, completely legal, and I’ll still bear 100% of the responsibility if it crashes into something or someone.Public roads should not be their test track IMHO.
The public roads are the test track of seventeen year-olds, those with early onset dementia, people with failing eyesight, and so on so I don’t see much difference here.
Feeling the car steer, brake, accelerate and deal with the busy A13 on a Saturday morning was a genuinely eerie experience, and one that made me want to try it again.
By contrast I drove a supposedly comfortable supercar back to London from Amsterdam a fortnight ago, and because of the constant stop-start traffic had a thoroughly miserable trip. I’m going to try the same trip in the new car to compare.
thenorth said:
I watched the 3hr tech explanation video yesterday and was blown away with what they have achieved so far. A lot of the posters on here are uninformed at how quickly this system is learning our driving behaviour and predicting and adapting to changes in conditions. The full autonomous hardware is already in the cars now its just a case of updating the software.
Tesla is on course for 1 million teslas on the road by next year with an average of 1,000 miles per car per month that's a billion miles of real-world driving data/footage the AI is learning from. That's the true differentiator, and the reason the traditional car companies are so far behind and the gap will only get bigger.
Other manufacturers are at least 5 years behind Tesla, the Model S came out in 2012 they are only just getting to that level of automation now in 2019!.
As outlined in this technical article, Teslas don't stream all driving info back to HQ, only things they are asked to look out for or situations where the driver takes over from autonomous mode. But the programmers can then only account for situations they know about. Waymo has had their vehicles send back every single detail of driving but still cant achieve full autonomy. Tesla is on course for 1 million teslas on the road by next year with an average of 1,000 miles per car per month that's a billion miles of real-world driving data/footage the AI is learning from. That's the true differentiator, and the reason the traditional car companies are so far behind and the gap will only get bigger.
Other manufacturers are at least 5 years behind Tesla, the Model S came out in 2012 they are only just getting to that level of automation now in 2019!.
A true self driving car needs intuition, and I doubt I will see anything like that in my lifetime. How many times have you 'felt' something was going to happen based on someone's behaviour and adjusted your own driving accordingly?
Tony-K said:
swisstoni said:
Can it be legal?
Public roads should not be their test track IMHO.
Yes, completely legal, and I’ll still bear 100% of the responsibility if it crashes into something or someone.Public roads should not be their test track IMHO.
Tony-k said:
By contrast I drove a supposedly comfortable supercar back to London from Amsterdam a fortnight ago, and because of the constant stop-start traffic had a thoroughly miserable trip. I’m going to try the same trip in the new car to compare.
Constant stop start traffic between London and Amsterdam. Oh really?You must have picked a very bad day. Or taken a very strange route.
Tony-k said:
By contrast I drove a supposedly comfortable supercar back to London from Amsterdam a fortnight ago, and because of the constant stop-start traffic had a thoroughly miserable trip. I’m going to try the same trip in the new car to compare.
Constant stop start traffic between London and Amsterdam. Oh really?You must have picked a very bad day. Or taken a very strange route.
swisstoni said:
Well that’s big of you. If it’s discovered you weren’t driving perhaps that’s not all you’ll be doing.
I’m not sure what point you are trying to make; I was talking about where legal responsibility lies, not offering to somehow take on responsibility that isn’t mine.I’m not really sure what point you are trying to make here, using a Tesla as it’s designed to be used is not illegal and the evidence suggests that it’s also safe.
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