RE: Tesla Full Self Driving: Time For Tea
Discussion
RobDickinson said:
cognac1979 said:
I wonder how an autonomous would deal with meeting a combine harvester on a back road in summer when the hedges are overgrown. Try that one Elon! I would like an autonomous lift home from the pub though.
Thats a 99.999999 edge case, and the car doesnt need to know its a combine harvester just a large vehicle blocking the road. I like Tesla, I'm a model 3 reservation holder.
One thing I can't get past is how autopilot doesn't move for potholes. This is a big issue in the UK and one I don't see mentioned anywhere at all.
It won't stop me getting my model 3 but it's put me off autopilot so far which is a shame as being partially driven to work is very appealing.
One thing I can't get past is how autopilot doesn't move for potholes. This is a big issue in the UK and one I don't see mentioned anywhere at all.
It won't stop me getting my model 3 but it's put me off autopilot so far which is a shame as being partially driven to work is very appealing.
Harry H said:
The biggest down side for me is that an autonomous car will never have the ability to ease it's way out of a busy junction.
Making eye contact with the oncoming driver and all that then sticking your nose in the gap. Autonomous cars will always err on the side of caution.
The solution will be more and more sets of traffic lights to the point that even though we are being driven every journey will take twice as long.
Actually the car will be able to calculate how much acceleration to use in a precisely timed way to jump into a small gap which most drivers wouldn't risk.Making eye contact with the oncoming driver and all that then sticking your nose in the gap. Autonomous cars will always err on the side of caution.
The solution will be more and more sets of traffic lights to the point that even though we are being driven every journey will take twice as long.
manracer said:
I like Tesla, I'm a model 3 reservation holder.
One thing I can't get past is how autopilot doesn't move for potholes. This is a big issue in the UK and one I don't see mentioned anywhere at all.
It won't stop me getting my model 3 but it's put me off autopilot so far which is a shame as being partially driven to work is very appealing.
Elon specifically mentioned pot holes recently One thing I can't get past is how autopilot doesn't move for potholes. This is a big issue in the UK and one I don't see mentioned anywhere at all.
It won't stop me getting my model 3 but it's put me off autopilot so far which is a shame as being partially driven to work is very appealing.
The Audi A8 is far from level 5 it's level 3 I believe. It only works in a traffic jam at slow speed and it needs to monitor the driver to allow hand over and hand back.
Tesla is a dodgy level 2 and is not as advanced as Waymo they just have a better (louder) marketing campaign. Musk promises a lot of things that won't happen. Level 5 it's a long way away, edge cases are plentiful, cars can't deal with bad conditions, Teslas crash in ways that would be avoided if the driver realised that this isn't anywhere near a level 5 system.
The world needs educating because this hyperbolic excitement is dangerous and media shouldn't be encouraging it. The near to medium future is collaborative automation where vehicle and driver work together.
Tesla is a dodgy level 2 and is not as advanced as Waymo they just have a better (louder) marketing campaign. Musk promises a lot of things that won't happen. Level 5 it's a long way away, edge cases are plentiful, cars can't deal with bad conditions, Teslas crash in ways that would be avoided if the driver realised that this isn't anywhere near a level 5 system.
The world needs educating because this hyperbolic excitement is dangerous and media shouldn't be encouraging it. The near to medium future is collaborative automation where vehicle and driver work together.
Isn't there another point here? I have two elderly ladies 'in my life'. My mother has lost her driving confidence (she actually drives very well) and my mother in law is scared of roundabouts. They both live in villages about 3 miles from the local town and no public transport whatsoever. This has led to an element of isolation and loneliness which would be helped enormously by access to transport. If they had autonomous cars they would gain mobility and their actions as they got older would be predictable by other road users - the actual social benefits would be enormous.
From my own point of view I would like the OPTION - I drive 1200 miles to Spain fairly regularly and engaging autonomous mode for parts of the journey would be great. Everyday use doesn't interest me - at least for the next 20 years or so hopefully.
From my own point of view I would like the OPTION - I drive 1200 miles to Spain fairly regularly and engaging autonomous mode for parts of the journey would be great. Everyday use doesn't interest me - at least for the next 20 years or so hopefully.
Crippo said:
Every single electrical item I have ever owned has gone on the blink at some point. Would I trust technology with my life....nope.
You’ve been doing it every time you got into a plane for at least the past decade. Every modern airliner is fly by wire - pilot inputs are just a high level guide to the computer. As the 737 Max has shown, that’s not perfect, but it doesn’t have to be: just better than letting meatbrains handle it unassisted. Which it is - aviation crash rates have dropped dramatically in the last few decades and technology is a large factor in that. yonex said:
J4CKO said:
No massive Tesla fanboy but isnt the Audi still a fair way off production, can buy a Tesla right now, see loads of them daily.
The mainstream manufacturers are definitely catching up after being caught napping though.
I-Pace is better in every way bar range, E-Tron the same. Tesla will just shrink back into a technology supplier as predicted by everyone. The Tesla range already looks dated to me, I'm no fan of either but i'd take the semi sane Audi styling over the unfinished blob model that Tesla seem to favour. The mainstream manufacturers are definitely catching up after being caught napping though.
RobDickinson said:
Hoofy said:
Does that mean it just parks and waits? Or you have to override it?
How would you handle it? That's how it'll be trained to handle it. Likely reverse to a safe place to allow it past. It'll be better at reversing than most people..
Hold on - what if it's two large automated vehicles blocking the road. Which one reverses and would you be annoyed if yours was the beta and reversed first?
Looks good but in the real world it's a no so far. Good points already - potholes, cats, road runners tunnel, and it does need to work perfectly or it's essentially useless.
I test drove a new Leaf with self steer - it reads the road and steers, as long as you keep a light touch on the wheel. On the M60 near Bredbury there's a fairly sharp lh curve. It lost control.
We had a VW with collision avoidance. Full emergency stop when passing a stationery bus, and once with a four-wheels-locked-smoking-tyres Transit bearing down on me from behind after my car just slammed the brakes on.
Lots of testing to be done!
I test drove a new Leaf with self steer - it reads the road and steers, as long as you keep a light touch on the wheel. On the M60 near Bredbury there's a fairly sharp lh curve. It lost control.
We had a VW with collision avoidance. Full emergency stop when passing a stationery bus, and once with a four-wheels-locked-smoking-tyres Transit bearing down on me from behind after my car just slammed the brakes on.
Lots of testing to be done!
Distraxi said:
Crippo said:
Every single electrical item I have ever owned has gone on the blink at some point. Would I trust technology with my life....nope.
You’ve been doing it every time you got into a plane for at least the past decade. Every modern airliner is fly by wire - pilot inputs are just a high level guide to the computer. As the 737 Max has shown, that’s not perfect, but it doesn’t have to be: just better than letting meatbrains handle it unassisted. Which it is - aviation crash rates have dropped dramatically in the last few decades and technology is a large factor in that. I'd be interested to see an independent and randomised test of this, rather than a promo video. Even if this wasn't with outside aid, this could be a well known test route used to 'train' the system. How does is really cope when presented with a scenario it hasn't seen before, with complex traffic, difficult junctions, pedestrians etc.
Key observations were:
- Good weather
- Good visibility
- Light to medium traffic
- No pedestrians
- No cyclists
- No ambiguous junctions
- Good signage and clear road markings
A good number of the 'self driving' systems out there could quite happily do this, but as already discussed, it's the fringe cases which cause the difficulties.
I wouldn't normally be so cynical about it (actually I probably would!), but Musk doesn't have the best record with Tesla for claiming things he has no way of delivering to get more investment. Classic example recently would be the Roadster. The car that's been seen is nothing more than a load of Model S/X bits bolted together in a pretty fibreglass shell. Several industry contacts have commented that there still isn't even an engineering programme for the Roadster yet! In other words, they haven't even begun designing the thing yet....not just the chassis and body, but also the actual electronics. They're literally taking money off people for a vague concept about a car they could potentially produce to fund their current production issues.
Key observations were:
- Good weather
- Good visibility
- Light to medium traffic
- No pedestrians
- No cyclists
- No ambiguous junctions
- Good signage and clear road markings
A good number of the 'self driving' systems out there could quite happily do this, but as already discussed, it's the fringe cases which cause the difficulties.
I wouldn't normally be so cynical about it (actually I probably would!), but Musk doesn't have the best record with Tesla for claiming things he has no way of delivering to get more investment. Classic example recently would be the Roadster. The car that's been seen is nothing more than a load of Model S/X bits bolted together in a pretty fibreglass shell. Several industry contacts have commented that there still isn't even an engineering programme for the Roadster yet! In other words, they haven't even begun designing the thing yet....not just the chassis and body, but also the actual electronics. They're literally taking money off people for a vague concept about a car they could potentially produce to fund their current production issues.
The Crack Fox said:
Imagine, right, if all the money chucked at Tesla went into improving the public transport system. This 'self-driving' stuff already exists - it's called taxis, buses and trains.
The whole point of the business model is that if they get to full automation the cost per mile to transport people drops to way below public transport. It _could_ revolutionise the transport industry, if progression on the tech continues and regulators are willing to embrace a better, but less than perfect safety record.
jmcc500 said:
I understood, from some guys developing self driving cars over here, that the Tesla approach not using LIDAR is fundamentally flawed, and that the safety case for LIDAR is pretty conclusive. Unfortunately LIDAR is not cheap!
I am sorry, I can’t remember the details but it was explained and it made sense. I would not put my life in the hands of a Tesla at the current time.
musk called lidar 'a fools errand' (paraphrasing) in the video, they showed a very detailed 3D model map that the cars make using just the cameras I am sorry, I can’t remember the details but it was explained and it made sense. I would not put my life in the hands of a Tesla at the current time.
and as he pointed out we all drive perfectly well with just two eyes
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Wednesday 24th April 11:32
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