RE: Tesla Full Self Driving: Time For Tea
Discussion
RandomTask said:
The Crack Fox said:
Imagine, right, if all the money chucked at Tesla went into improving the public transport system. This 'self-driving' stuff already exists - it's called taxis, buses and trains.
The whole point of the business model is that if they get to full automation the cost per mile to transport people drops to way below public transport. It _could_ revolutionise the transport industry, if progression on the tech continues and regulators are willing to embrace a better, but less than perfect safety record.
Dave Hedgehog said:
jmcc500 said:
I understood, from some guys developing self driving cars over here, that the Tesla approach not using LIDAR is fundamentally flawed, and that the safety case for LIDAR is pretty conclusive. Unfortunately LIDAR is not cheap!
I am sorry, I can’t remember the details but it was explained and it made sense. I would not put my life in the hands of a Tesla at the current time.
musk called lidar 'a fools errand' (paraphrasing) in the video, they showed a very detailed 3D model map that the cars make using just the cameras I am sorry, I can’t remember the details but it was explained and it made sense. I would not put my life in the hands of a Tesla at the current time.
and as he pointed out we all drive perfectly well with just two eyes
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Wednesday 24th April 11:32
Bad weather, salty dirty roads and many other things can cause issues for the camera based system. If you research this properly, we are years and years away from true self driving in all situations in all conditions.
The Crack Fox said:
Imagine, right, if all the money chucked at Tesla went into improving the public transport system. This 'self-driving' stuff already exists - it's called taxis, buses and trains.
Taxis are expensive and are controlled by humans, usually ones that aren’t very good at driving in my experience. I’d much rather take my chances with a machine than the average taxi driver. donteatpeople said:
The Crack Fox said:
Imagine, right, if all the money chucked at Tesla went into improving the public transport system. This 'self-driving' stuff already exists - it's called taxis, buses and trains.
Taxis are expensive and are controlled by humans, usually ones that aren’t very good at driving in my experience. I’d much rather take my chances with a machine than the average taxi driver. Also, we've booked taxi's and been left waiting. We've tried to flag them down, and been left waiting. And when some have arrived, they haven't been the most pleasant experience, due to a range of factors.
MiniMan64 said:
Serious negativity in this thread and a lot of Tesla hate that seems to permeate the whole forum.
Very odd.
For some reason Tesla does seem to polarise opinions in a lot of people. Very odd.
Personally I don't like Musk, but I have a grudging respect for what he's achieved with both Tesla and SpaceX. Would I buy a Tesla? Probably not but I think it's fair to say that the car I'm likely to buy next probably wouldn't exist without Tesla.
MiniMan64 said:
Serious negativity in this thread and a lot of Tesla hate that seems to permeate the whole forum.
Very odd.
not hate - but we need in society to change the way we have discussion:Very odd.
- person A (company A) makes bold statement with no evidence / credibility
- person B makes reasonable comments saying - hold on there is no evidence for that / it won't work in this scenario / the technology already in place is flawed...
- persons C -> Z pile in claiming hate / ignorance / etc.
it is nice to have wishful thinking and yes, autonomous cars that work would be great to have either as a mixture of options, or even as a comfortable way to be chauffeured around - but we are so far from it that it is laughable when someone like Musk goes on record claiming that he will have robot taxis on the road in 2020 - presumably similar to his earlier claim that he would have them on the road in 2018 - does he just make the same claim every 2 years until one day he is right?!
there is a lot of tosh being talked about autonomous cars being about to descend and save the world - if we are really that close, why is it that JLR can't build a car with an entertainment system that doesn't crash every 20 yards / most manufacturers have recalls on at least some of their models / cars can be stolen because the keyless entry systems are easy to fake / autonomous braking systems don't work / assisted cruise control has flaws / etc. etc.
modern cars are a rolling case study in how badly technology can be put together and in how gullible the public are in buying it / putting up with it - does anyone really look at the cars on the road now and believe that the technology is so robust and capable / flawless that we will have the cars driving us in full autonomous mode next year! really?! Absolute nonsense!
we are a good few decades away from full autonomy - as said above, the next stage is more bringing together of driver and assistance - and as we are already seeing that this technology can work, but can equally have issues - we are a long way off having a car I would trust my life to...
Roy m said:
Isn't there another point here? I have two elderly ladies 'in my life'. My mother has lost her driving confidence (she actually drives very well) and my mother in law is scared of roundabouts. They both live in villages about 3 miles from the local town and no public transport whatsoever. This has led to an element of isolation and loneliness which would be helped enormously by access to transport. If they had autonomous cars they would gain mobility and their actions as they got older would be predictable by other road users - the actual social benefits would be enormous.
From my own point of view I would like the OPTION - I drive 1200 miles to Spain fairly regularly and engaging autonomous mode for parts of the journey would be great. Everyday use doesn't interest me - at least for the next 20 years or so hopefully.
reasonable - but for the cost of owning the car, and I suspect (if anything like my parents) the low mileage they would do - they are probably financially equivalent to just book taxis - and the taxi driver can carry their bags into the house - try getting an autonomous car to do that!From my own point of view I would like the OPTION - I drive 1200 miles to Spain fairly regularly and engaging autonomous mode for parts of the journey would be great. Everyday use doesn't interest me - at least for the next 20 years or so hopefully.
dundarach said:
MiniMan64 said:
Serious negativity in this thread and a lot of Tesla hate that seems to permeate the whole forum.
Very odd.
Ignorance and jealousy are an angry bunch of squirrels...Very odd.
Cleaver stuff, can't wait, hope I live long enough to be able to afford something like this, magical!!
He's partialy done this for the auto industry, but IMO with much less success than the Space industry. Certainly EV tech, and peoples expectations for the usability of the interfaces in their cars have been really pushed forward by Musk. However, I feel he got into it thinking that he'd be hugely successful in making cars better than the existing OEMs, and easily 'do autonomous driving'. Unfortunately, he's discovered that the Auto industry is actually not as much of a dinosaur as he thought, and whilst there's certainly opportunities, overall, the established players like VAG, Toyota, Mercedes etc are really good at nailing cost, quality and profit. I think it's a common fault of many tech companies, which I believe is why Apple (who have a lot of money to burn) decided to can their car programme. The payback would be small for the money they put in....it would be hard to truly revolutionise the industry as a whole.
I'm not saying Tesla can't get autonomous driving working by 2020. I think in reality it's highly unlikely they'll get the legislative stuff sorted or indeed the difficult bits sorted. From what I've seen, the people most likely to be first to market with true autonomy will be Waymo with their autonomous taxi fleet. These are easily controlled and monitored, low-ish risk and generally over engineered to ensure safety.
MiniMan64 said:
Serious negativity in this thread and a lot of Tesla hate that seems to permeate the whole forum.
Very odd.
Not really. It's a natural reaction to the nauseating fanboism and the tragic schadenfreude found in most EV threads... you know the guy who lives with his mum and drives a crappy ICE car laughing at the 'dinosaur juice burning' super car driver because the Tesla roadster promises to be faster.Very odd.
Tesla releases Q1 results today after the close. I thought all the bad news was out (deliveries and revenue down 15-20%ish from previous q) and they were actually going to surprise to the upside but the timing of this vid makes me a bit suspicious.
Beginning of the end or indeed the end for drivers if this tech ever makes it to the road. I like to drive and will not buy any car that contains a self driving mode that is unable to be deleted as an option.
TX.
Edit - just a point of order, that car is MLH'ing almost the entire journey
if it does so when in the UK.
TX.
Edit - just a point of order, that car is MLH'ing almost the entire journey
if it does so when in the UK.Edited by Terminator X on Wednesday 24th April 14:54
Edited by Terminator X on Wednesday 24th April 14:57
redback911 said:
Sign me up.
Better fuel economy, improved safety, less congestion, less pollution, whats not to like? I still want to drive and ride occasionally, but for commuting and long boring journeys, I would use autopilot.
So naïve, it will become mandatory after being "rolled out" as optional. For your safety of course Better fuel economy, improved safety, less congestion, less pollution, whats not to like? I still want to drive and ride occasionally, but for commuting and long boring journeys, I would use autopilot.
TX.
Terminator X said:
redback911 said:
Sign me up.
Better fuel economy, improved safety, less congestion, less pollution, whats not to like? I still want to drive and ride occasionally, but for commuting and long boring journeys, I would use autopilot.
So naïve, it will become mandatory after being "rolled out" as optional. For your safety of course Better fuel economy, improved safety, less congestion, less pollution, whats not to like? I still want to drive and ride occasionally, but for commuting and long boring journeys, I would use autopilot.
TX.
kambites said:
For some reason Tesla does seem to polarise opinions in a lot of people.
Personally I don't like Musk, but I have a grudging respect for what he's achieved with both Tesla and SpaceX. Would I buy a Tesla? Probably not but I think it's fair to say that the car I'm likely to buy next probably wouldn't exist without Tesla.
Same.Personally I don't like Musk, but I have a grudging respect for what he's achieved with both Tesla and SpaceX. Would I buy a Tesla? Probably not but I think it's fair to say that the car I'm likely to buy next probably wouldn't exist without Tesla.
Such a surprise to see the wealth of informed opinion about the viability of self-driving tech in this thread, it would appear that many respondents would be able to call on the pioneering work of Messrs. Dunning and Kruger to validate their interpretation of where the strengths and weaknesses of Tesla's systems lie.
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