RE: Aston Martin DB6 EV concept: Driven
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
Is it?
I think many people seem to forget there are places outside of the UK and even the EU. Thus EV is simply not viable for large portions of the planet and is a long long long long long way off yet before it will be, if ever.
The majority of the market for EVs isn't the UK or EU, it's the US and China. I think many people seem to forget there are places outside of the UK and even the EU. Thus EV is simply not viable for large portions of the planet and is a long long long long long way off yet before it will be, if ever.
I think we'll see internal combustion engines for specialist use and obviously in second-hand cars for a looong time, but I don't think they've got more than 30-40 years left in mainstream passenger transport. I still don't really see the point in converting classics though, unless the original drive-train is knackered and replaceable I suppose.
In this case I find the end result moderately appealing but I don't see much point in using a real DB6 when a replica body on a proper EV platform would be better, cheaper and wouldn't destroy a relatively rare classic car.
Edited by kambites on Monday 29th April 15:09
Turbobanana said:
I suspect that, however much you might complain about it, EVs probably ARE the future and their viability will improve as technology advances, but I absolutely agree that converting the last remaining glorious ICE classics into EVs is wrong. What next - the 250GTO EV?
I'm not complaining about EV's, in fact quite the opposite for the most part. But I just don't see them being viable as a direct replacement for ICE engines in their entirety.Even in the UK there are 100,000's of people who have no means of realistically charging an EV vehicle. Nor is there a suitable infrastructure in place or in the plans to support everyone using pure EV's.
Electric drivetrains may well become more the norm, but I suspect some form of ICE will still be around in a hybrid/diesel electric form for some time yet, even if it one that runs on a carbon neutral synthetic fuel, rather than fossil fuels.
300bhp/ton said:
Turbobanana said:
I suspect that, however much you might complain about it, EVs probably ARE the future and their viability will improve as technology advances, but I absolutely agree that converting the last remaining glorious ICE classics into EVs is wrong. What next - the 250GTO EV?
I'm not complaining about EV's, in fact quite the opposite for the most part. But I just don't see them being viable as a direct replacement for ICE engines in their entirety.Even in the UK there are 100,000's of people who have no means of realistically charging an EV vehicle. Nor is there a suitable infrastructure in place or in the plans to support everyone using pure EV's.
Electric drivetrains may well become more the norm, but I suspect some form of ICE will still be around in a hybrid/diesel electric form for some time yet, even if it one that runs on a carbon neutral synthetic fuel, rather than fossil fuels.
When I was born (1968!), I guess nobody really gave a stuff. I wonder what attitudes will be like in another 50 years' time.
Turbobanana said:
Fair enough. It's tricky though, isn't it? On the one hand, we'd all love to keep classics / supercars / whatever as they are. On the other, there'd be no point if we had no planet to run them on.
But it isnt as if they are the only 2 choices though.The current EV spike has less to do with planet saving and is all local air quality in cities. Arguably on planet wide scale EV's are currently worse for the planet as a whole. As most electricity comes from burning fossil fuels. And it is less efficient to burn them to make electric on a National scale, than it is to burn them in a car for local motive transport.
And as said, there are other options:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sugar+cane+fuel&am...
300bhp/ton said:
And it is less efficient to burn them to make electric on a National scale, than it is to burn them in a car for local motive transport.
That bit is not true. Even the most pessimistic studies (ie those funded by the oil giants) tend to conclude that burning coal (the worst fossil fuel from a CO2 perspective) in a power station and using that to run an EV produces roughly the same amount of CO2 per mile as driving a very efficient modern internal combustion powered car. Other fossil fuels are considerably better and many cars are considerably worse, plus most nations have at least some non-fossil fuel power generation. The only way to come to a conclusion that EVs are worse from a CO2 perspective than ICE cars is to include the CO2 produced by the location, extraction and purification of Lithium, etc. but not do the same for petrol.
New Electric in Holland have been doing conversions like this for a while now. Less than £40k all in.
http://www.newelectric.nl
They'll also do your speedboat too
http://www.newelectric.nl
They'll also do your speedboat too
kambites said:
That bit is not true. Even the most pessimistic studies (ie those funded by the oil giants) tend to conclude that burning coal (the worst fossil fuel from a CO2 perspective) in a power station and using that to run an EV produces roughly the same amount of CO2 per mile as driving a very efficient modern internal combustion powered car. Other fossil fuels are considerably better and many cars are considerably worse, plus most nations have at least some non-fossil fuel power generation.
I'll concede and say I need to read more studies. 
But I struggle to see how burning a fossil fuel in a power station, to heat water to turn a turbine, to then store and transport that power across a region and/or nation, to then be funneled to an individuals house, to then have a charger plugged into the wall to then transfer the power to a battery (resulting in lots of heat), is more efficient. The only way it can be is if the power station is super super efficient vs a combustion engine.
Is the National grid and EV's really that efficient that they could burn 60 litres of fuel and only on those 60 litres be able to deliver enough power to an EV to travel 725 miles? A modern ICE vehicle will fairly easily attain this distance on this amount of fuel.
Does the energy pyramid apply for this?
300bhp/ton said:
I'll concede and say I need to read more studies.
But I struggle to see how burning a fossil fuel in a power station, to heat water to turn a turbine, to then store and transport that power across a region and/or nation, to then be funneled to an individuals house, to then have a charger plugged into the wall to then transfer the power to a battery (resulting in lots of heat), is more efficient. The only way it can be is if the power station is super super efficient vs a combustion engine.
Yup.But I struggle to see how burning a fossil fuel in a power station, to heat water to turn a turbine, to then store and transport that power across a region and/or nation, to then be funneled to an individuals house, to then have a charger plugged into the wall to then transfer the power to a battery (resulting in lots of heat), is more efficient. The only way it can be is if the power station is super super efficient vs a combustion engine.
The most modern GDI petrol engines can manage, in perfect conditions, near 35% efficiency. Most of the time, it'll be a good bit lower, and obviously older engine tech is not as good.
A coal plant will do 37%+ all day long
The only way this would make sense is if they decided to make new cars with new battery tech and running gear, but made to look like the original classic. Something like the Ford GT with the GT40.
I do like the idea of a classic with modern running gear, but not if it involves cutting up an existing, functioning rare classic.
I do like the idea of a classic with modern running gear, but not if it involves cutting up an existing, functioning rare classic.
greeneggsandham said:
The only way this would make sense is if they decided to make new cars with new battery tech and running gear, but made to look like the original classic. Something like the Ford GT with the GT40.
I do like the idea of a classic with modern running gear, but not if it involves cutting up an existing, functioning rare classic.
This, If Works Service can repair any Aston to 'as new' with OE parts they have all the bits to make a new one with batteries.I do like the idea of a classic with modern running gear, but not if it involves cutting up an existing, functioning rare classic.
ks from AML.Before I even read the article i was thinking this is too soon, and what does the bloke in charge think: "My concern is that we're too early into this,"
Do it only when legislation is passed to make it necessary (and that may never come to pass) If such legislation occurs it might not be for 10/20 years and the tech will have moved on massively by then.
Do it only when legislation is passed to make it necessary (and that may never come to pass) If such legislation occurs it might not be for 10/20 years and the tech will have moved on massively by then.
300bhp/ton said:
The only way it can be is if the power station is super super efficient vs a combustion engine.
Basically this, yes. A good modern power station is around 75% efficient at normal loading; a good modern internal combustion engine running at typical road load is around 25% efficient. Plus electric cars can regeneratively brake to recover energy which conventional internal combustion powered vehicles cannot. Yes there's losses in the grid, charging losses, etc. but whilst there's a number of them, each one is fairly small. You can afford to lose 10% of your energy quite a few times when you have three times as much of it to start with. Plus of course for us the UK's energy mix is only about half fossil fuel these days and most of that is gas which generates far more energy per unit carbon emission than oil or coal.
Edited by kambites on Monday 29th April 20:22
If only people with ev's had some kind of way of producing their own power or purchasing 100% renewable?
Tbh this car is mostly about marketing but it's going to be an easier daily drive if you want to and you can leave the delicate oily bits in the garage ready to swap back in if you like.
Tbh this car is mostly about marketing but it's going to be an easier daily drive if you want to and you can leave the delicate oily bits in the garage ready to swap back in if you like.
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