RE: 'The toughest, most capable Land Rover ever'

[Dan_1981]

Dan_1981 said:

I bet within the next page or so we've got lots of pictures of:

highly modified old trucks,
a suzuki Jimny,
some mass produced Ford / Merc versions,

lots and lots of comments about how the farmers and utility companies are not going to be impressed as

a) No space for dead / pregnant / shagging sheep and
b) No option to install a high lift man up lift to change light bulbs on top of Mt Snowden.

Told you.

[Gandahar]

Burwood said:

It will look just like these. There isn't any mystery really

It would look better in yellow like this early test mule -->

[Rubins4]

You don't half go on.

[BFleming]

spikyone said:

Seems a few people disagree with me. I really struggle to tell a Velar from a RRS. And the RRS looks like the FFRR.

FFRR:


RRS:


Velar:


Evoque:


Disco Sport:


OK, the Disco has (slightly) different headlights. Otherwise, a different air vent here, a slight tweak to the bumper there, but in isolation I would not be able to tell from a photo which one I was looking at. The LR/RR range ten years ago had cars with a common styling feel, but individual looks. It might be easy to tell them apart in the flesh because one is bigger than the other, but after the Mk1 Evoque they've spent about 2 minutes on styling.

And yes, I agree that Audi, Merc, and BMW have all gone down that route. It's lazy when they do it, too.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my Dad in the late 1970's, when he asked me why a door from a Fiat 131 wouldn't fit a Fiat 124. I looked at him with the most confused face I could muster & eventually (& politely) said 'they're completely different cars'. As I've said previously, I'm no LR/RR expert, but even I can tell the difference between any of those JLR products above - even when squinting from distance. How a Velar can be mistaken for literally anything else is beyond me.

[HighwayStar]

Well they've decided where to build it....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48103070

[Andeh1]

300bhp/ton said:

Andeh1 said:

spikyone said:

Nerdherder said:

spikyone said:

Sadly all LR/RR models since the Evoque have looked like the Evoque. Unless you park them next to each other it's near impossible to tell them apart. I hope I'm wrong, but I imagine this will go the same way.

The Velar looks distinctly different. And better than the other LR models to my eyes.

Edited by Nerdherder on Tuesday 30th April 08:37

Seems a few people disagree with me. I really struggle to tell a Velar from a RRS. And the RRS looks like the FFRR.

It's lazy when they do it, too.

It's not lazy, it is due to pedestrian impact, aerodynamics, low speed impact robustness high speed impact safety and trying to package it all together into something that is still aesthetically pleasing.

All car builders find 'their style' of doing it and stick to it for brand identity.

But do they?

If they want to pursue the center ground of 'what consumers want', yes. Yes they do. The Jeep ?, Mercedes ?, Suzuki ? are arguably as mundane as it comes looks wise (because my point), The Wrangler, G Wagon are niche markets where cost, economy, styling and safety are ignored, and the new Jimny is a budget vehicle with no interest in NCAP due to its budget price tag.

My point still stands. It is not lazy, it is car makers choosing the 'sensible' 'center market' rather then focus on the niches at either end of it. No right or wrong, but they have their own £££ reasons for doing so.

edit:
Critical point here:

NomduJour said:

That will be the all-new Jeep Wrangler which scored one (1!) star in Euro NCAP testing, yes? Do you really think that’s going to fly for the new Defender?

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/Jeep/Wrangler/...

Edited by Andeh1 on Tuesday 30th April 12:27

[Dr Interceptor]

Another Land Rover Defender thread = a bump up 300bhp/tons post count average.

[Gandahar]

Dr Interceptor said:

Another Land Rover Defender thread = a bump up 300bhp/tons post count average.

Yeah, he says he lives in the country but with 30 posts per day, every day for the last 10 years you do worry whether he ever had muddy wellies.


Don't worry 300posts/per day, I am sure it will have good connectivity options

[anonymous-user]

I think it looks ace and want one.

Some of the comments are daft. It comes across like the current Defender is some cheap, throw away work horse, even a 20 year old snotter is stupidly expensive. if you want something newer they prices are mental for what they are.

My wife has a Disco 4 and we love it, what a great all rounder, tell me another standard vehicle that has the range of talents of a Disco. If this is a hardcore version of that then I get it and I'd buy one. Would I take it up a mountain? Probably not, I have a 20 year old battered Jeep for that but whats the difference between that and keeping the Ferrari for mincing about in and the battered Saxo for track days?

I doubt there will be a more capable (standard) car available at any price.

[Gandahar]

skinthespin said:

I think it looks ace and want one.


My wife has a Disco 4 and we love it, what a great all rounder, tell me another standard vehicle that has the range of talents of a Disco..

If it's such a great all rounder why is she driving it and not you?

You must really love her ...

[Triumph Man]

HighwayStar said:

Well they've decided where to build it....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48103070

So like the original it will be built by communists

[Andeh1]

300bhp/ton said:

NomduJour said:

For the millionth time, LR are just not in a position to churn out hundreds of thousands of ultra-basic, low-value-added vehicles to the developing world.

Look at the pickup market in the UK - the majority have all the toys and features a normal car has, hence why the price of them is offer over £40k with VAT.

Two points, if your last statement is true, then again why is that a reason not to sell into that market?

And for the record, they aren't...

Because Ford Produce 6 million cars a year & JLR barely make 500k? JLR doesn't have the economies of scale to build em cheap & sell em wide.

They stopped building the defender because it was unsafe, inefficient, killed pedestrians by merely looking at them, noisy & was only appreciated by a niche market. They had to kill it off because they couldn't make it meet current automotive regulations - otherwise they'd have kept churning them out until a replacement came along.

The only way JLR can bring back the name plate is modernizing it & utilising its existing architectures & production capabilities - none of which are capable of making a profit off a ''bare bones basics'' for farmers & men who get far too excited playing in the mud with each other.

The Wrangler only exists because American are too stupid to realise how unsafe they are, the Jimny because Suzuki specialise in small cars and Ford/Toyota because they have the vast production capabilities to make every car in every way, very cheap. None of which JLR are able, or willing, to get into bed with.

JLR still make some of the best 4x4 on the market, and whilst their reliability isn't class leading - their off road credentials very much are!

Why are you so obtuse on this subject!?

Edited by Andeh1 on Tuesday 30th April 12:43

[camel_landy]

HighwayStar said:

Well they've decided where to build it....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48103070

More than a little disappointed with that news...

M

[Gandahar]

Andeh1 said:

300bhp/ton said:

NomduJour said:

For the millionth time, LR are just not in a position to churn out hundreds of thousands of ultra-basic, low-value-added vehicles to the developing world.

Look at the pickup market in the UK - the majority have all the toys and features a normal car has, hence why the price of them is offer over £40k with VAT.

Two points, if your last statement is true, then again why is that a reason not to sell into that market?

And for the record, they aren't...

Because Ford Produce 6 million cars a car & JLR barely make 500k? JLR doesn't have the economies of scale to build em cheap & sell em wide.

They stopped building the defender because it was unsafe, inefficient, killed pedestrians by merely looking at them, noisy & was only appreciated by a niche market. They had to kill it off because they couldnt make it meet current automotive regulations - otherwise they'd have kept churning them out until a replacement came along.

The only way JLR can bring back the name plate is modernizing it & utilising its existing architecture & production capability - none of which are capable of making a profit off a ''bare bones basics'' for farmers & men who get far too excited with playing in the mud with others.

The Wrangler only exists because American are too stupid to realise how unsafe they are, the Jimny because Suzuki specialise in small cars. Neither JLR are willing - or able- to get into.

Why are you so obtuse on this subject!?

You say that JLR had to kill the Defender because how unsafe it was, but then say in the next breath Jeep can still sell an unsafe 2019 car, suggesting due to the stupidity of Americans.

Maybe a rethink on that point? It might be xenophobic and wide of the mark at the same time.

[JxJ Jr.]

People that keep going on about "none of the farmers around here have a Defender.....all the farmers I know do....towing a horse box.....not towing a horse box...." need to think a bit broader. No global automaker cares what goes on in an individual country, other than the US or China.

And 'will sell loads', is great, but not necessarily enough. You have to sell them profitably, given JLR's recent accounting write down, does the business case still stack up sufficiently? Even then, if the buyers are just buying one instead of say, a Discovery, that's not a great position either.

[The Mad Monk]

kambites said:

One think I remember of the early defenders was how easy they were to work on.

Just as well.

[300bhp/ton]

NomduJour said:

300bhp/ton said:

What tests and why do you think they should have any relevance to styling?

Honestly?

Yes honestly. What tests are there that "force" a car maker to style all their cars the same to make them difficult to distinguish from one another. I don't know of any such tests.

[alfabeat]

We have a Disco 4 (59 plate). Been thinking about what to replace it with for awhile now. Such a superb vehicle. It will either be a newer Disco 4 or one of these in LWB guise. Can't wait to see it. And we are one of those families that use the Disco 4 for everything. School run, annual camping holiday and towing a fully loaded horse box 3 times a week. They are such great all round vehicles.

They will sell loads of them to all sorts of people as long as they are priced right. (max £40k).

[300bhp/ton]

NomduJour said:

That will be the all-new Jeep Wrangler which scored one (1!) star in Euro NCAP testing, yes? Do you really think that’s going to fly for the new Defender?

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/Jeep/Wrangler/...

NCAP is bks though and highly biased against such vehicles. And considering the USA is typically far more strict and that thw Wrangler is hugely successful, I fail to see any importance or relevance.

[anonymous-user]

300bhp/ton said:

NomduJour said:

300bhp/ton said:

What tests and why do you think they should have any relevance to styling?

Honestly?

Yes honestly. What tests are there that "force" a car maker to style all their cars the same to make them difficult to distinguish from one another. I don't know of any such tests.

You're twisting that a little bit though, aren't you?

300bhp/ton said:

The Leaper said:

What do people expect? To look like an old Defender designed years ago, so long ago that it would now fail all relevant vehicle tests?
R.

What tests and why do you think they should have any relevance to styling?

I'm quite sure you're well aware of the existence of pedestrian protection regulations, which is clearly what the leaper was referring to when he said a design from years ago would fail relevant vehicle tests.