RE: 'The toughest, most capable Land Rover ever'
Discussion
kambites said:
I'm sure JLR have done their market research and produced something which will sell. The question is to whom and for what purpose. I can't see them coaxing the farmers I know out of their Japanese pickups.
Seriously, what is pistonheads fascination with farmers. 12 mentions of farmers in this thread. Every single defender thread. They are probably the stingiest, tight fisted, most disinterested demographic that's ever existed (and probably proud of it!) for new car sales. I'd be amazed if JLR, Toyota, Dacia etc even register their existence let alone target them specifically. Its like "off road communities will never consider a new JLR product"..... No s
t... Another demographic that is closer aligned to their local welding supplier then a new car dealership. I bought a land rover magazine at the weekend, and it 90% vehicles over 10 year old with how to guides on welding & fitting roll cages. These are not people with the spending capability to afford *any* 4x4, let alone a JLR product. (* a box I also fall into I hasten to add)JLR builds up market luxury cars for adventurous families that don't want a people carrier, but do like to go camping in comfort & style. You want more luxury you buy a range rover, you won't more capability you buy this defender, you're in the middle.... buy a Discovery.
They are without equal in their off road capability for their demographic and market segment... This is defender will sell shed loads.
Edited by Andeh1 on Tuesday 30th April 10:58
Nerdherder said:
spikyone said:
Sadly all LR/RR models since the Evoque have looked like the Evoque. Unless you park them next to each other it's near impossible to tell them apart. I hope I'm wrong, but I imagine this will go the same way.
The Velar looks distinctly different. And better than the other LR models to my eyes. Edited by Nerdherder on Tuesday 30th April 08:37
FFRR:
RRS:
Velar:
Evoque:
Disco Sport:
OK, the Disco has (slightly) different headlights. Otherwise, a different air vent here, a slight tweak to the bumper there, but in isolation I would not be able to tell from a photo which one I was looking at. The LR/RR range ten years ago had cars with a common styling feel, but individual looks. It might be easy to tell them apart in the flesh because one is bigger than the other, but after the Mk1 Evoque they've spent about 2 minutes on styling.
And yes, I agree that Audi, Merc, and BMW have all gone down that route. It's lazy when they do it, too.
spikyone said:
Nerdherder said:
spikyone said:
Sadly all LR/RR models since the Evoque have looked like the Evoque. Unless you park them next to each other it's near impossible to tell them apart. I hope I'm wrong, but I imagine this will go the same way.
The Velar looks distinctly different. And better than the other LR models to my eyes. Edited by Nerdherder on Tuesday 30th April 08:37
It's lazy when they do it, too.
All car builders find 'their style' of doing it and stick to it for brand identity.
mat205125 said:
It's not going to be a utilitarian and value for money workhorse for farmers, that's for sure. The L200 and Hilux do that better than Land Rover can hope to emulate.
Even if that's true (and I'm not sure it is). Why on Earth would that be a reason not to also sell in that market?Should Audi stop selling executive saloons because BMW do it better?
Should nobody ever contemplate creating a sports car because Mazda do it very well?
Should Lambo chuck it all in because Ferrari do it better?
Maybe Kia/Hyndia should close up shop as VW and Ford do it better?
300bhp/ton said:
jhonn said:
(but then again the last Defender wasn't that simple either).
eh? 
The new one will be more complicated to meet the needs and expectations of the market and regulations - that's the world we live in nowadays.
300bhp/ton said:
Even if that's true (and I'm not sure it is). Why on Earth would that be a reason not to also sell in that market?
For the millionth time, LR are just not in a position to churn out hundreds of thousands of ultra-basic, low-value-added vehicles to the developing world. Look at the pickup market in the UK - the majority have all the toys and features a normal car has, hence why the price of them is offer over £40k with VAT.
smilo996 said:
The usual suspects moaning about progress.
The Defender was a huge leap forward from the Series with all its new fangled tech like coil springs, diesels, turbo diesels, and chelsea tractor bling like a plastic dash, mats, decent seats, inertia reel seat belts and a radio. Many Defos were made in SA with a German engine and many made under the ownership of zee germans.
This model is where the Defender would be if it had been incrementally upgraded instead of done in one jump anyway.
Making it in Slovakia will ensure a lower unit cost so they can keep it simpler and make more variants.
The first Ranger Rover looked nothing like the Defender but that is now cherished.
As long as it is reliable, all good.
Exactly. People bThe Defender was a huge leap forward from the Series with all its new fangled tech like coil springs, diesels, turbo diesels, and chelsea tractor bling like a plastic dash, mats, decent seats, inertia reel seat belts and a radio. Many Defos were made in SA with a German engine and many made under the ownership of zee germans.
This model is where the Defender would be if it had been incrementally upgraded instead of done in one jump anyway.
Making it in Slovakia will ensure a lower unit cost so they can keep it simpler and make more variants.
The first Ranger Rover looked nothing like the Defender but that is now cherished.
As long as it is reliable, all good.
hed about the Series III back in 1970 because it had a plastic grille ("can't use it as a BBQ grille in the outback!"...said all the people in the Home Counties because no real-life Aussie drover has ever actually used a zinc-galvanised metal grille to cook things on...) and something approaching a proper interior with (shock, horror!) black plastic and padded black vinyl! Of course the SIII went on to become the most successful Series of them all..300bhp/ton said:
jhonn said:
(but then again the last Defender wasn't that simple either).
eh? The idea that the New Defender will some erroneous high-tech replacement for a car which you could fix with baling twine and a hammer is one of the more pernicious untruths surrounding this furrore.
It also overlooks that all the Japanese 4x4s and pick-ups that get sold in the Western world (and much of the other bits of it) also have the full suite of electronic systems that you'd expect a modern vehicle to have but no-one gives a fig because, unlike LR, the Japanese tend to make electronic system that work. That's the only reason so many people get hung up on Land Rovers with gizmos - LR can't make them work dependably in the conditions that the vehicles are supposedly designed for. But then they often struggled to make really simple mechanical bits from the 1950s work, too...
300bhp/ton said:
uremaw said:
I was disappointed until I saw the final picture - where a lot of the cladding has been removed. There are definitely very strong Defender cues there - especially from the B pillar back. Quietly optimistic...
lol I think you may need a visit to specsavers!!! 
The front end still looks pretty Disco-ish, but that's clearly still got cladding on it.
I live in the country and do not know of one farmer or similar person who has a Land Rover/Range Rover of any type. The people who really need a proper 4x4 have mostly Landcruisers, Hiluxes or Isuzu D-Maxs'. They won't be buying the new Defender and neither they or Land Rover will be too worried about that. It's going to be aimed at a different market and I'm sure it will be a great success.
I like seeing kitted out versions of the old Defender however would never buy one. I had one as a work vehicle for a while and hated driving it. I'm sure the new one will be very lifestyle oriented and if people want that than fair enough.
It's a bit like the VW Transporter scene in some ways.
I like seeing kitted out versions of the old Defender however would never buy one. I had one as a work vehicle for a while and hated driving it. I'm sure the new one will be very lifestyle oriented and if people want that than fair enough.
It's a bit like the VW Transporter scene in some ways.
BathyThermo said:
kambites said:
What getting in the way because they don't fit on the C-roads people drive them on and their owners don't know how to reverse? 
With horse trailers on the back.kambites said:
I don't think I've ever seen a Defender towing a horse box! Farm machinery and even small live-stock trailers occasionally but not horses.
I've been at many a show and seen a beaten up Defender with a clapped out horse box on the back being driven by someone who also seems to resemble a horse!NomduJour said:
Go to any cattle market, farm sale etc - still lots of Land Rovers in the car park.
My mum's side of the family comes from a farming background and still runs a dairy farm so I'm fairly familiar with such things. When I was about ten I used to "help" my uncle out fixing farm equipment (he was a farm mechanic) and they had loads of Defenders... haven't seen one in active use in a decade now. The cattle market car parks are full of Toyotas and Nissans, generally 10+ year-old ones with more dents than straight metal; I see more Defenders in our (IT company) work car park than around farms.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff