RE: 'The toughest, most capable Land Rover ever'

[DonkeyApple]

InitialDave said:

DonkeyApple said:

I think it’s important to look at this from the context of our own age and geographic location.

OK, those are good points, though I guess my perspective would be that a certain amount of that stuff is addressed through the separation of Range Rover as more its 'own' brand rather than being a Land Rover model line.

Perhaps one counter I'd make is that maybe such markets simply aren't served by what the Land Rover Defender brand is. By all means, JLR should be going after that market, but if it's best served by something under the Range Rover or Discovery label, then that's fine.

I agree. I sometimes think that if when JLR has been formed they had called it JRR to reflect the products that they sold and the modern world then there would be a lot less discussion than there currently is in the matter.

My gut feeling is that the new Defender will sell 5-10x more a year than the old one and that is because it shares its ethos with the Range Rover brand of today rather than the Land Rover brand of the post War 20th century. It’s going to be a 100% road car that can do 99.9% of any off-road requirements a modern consumer may have while having much more of a fun element than any other non SVR product from JLR.

It’s finally a Defender that you can drive on a 100 mile trip in perfect comfort, that is safe at motorway speeds, that can protect your loved ones, that meets the day to day needs of consumers who buy £50k+ cars, there will be hybrid tech so you can drive it in the urban environment. It’s going to be the car that they should have built decades ago when the Empire ended, the utilities privatised and the only buyers were the affluent lifestyle market.

It’s only the British who are going to whinge that it’s not a pile of unsafe, uncomfortable, impractical ferrous oxide.

[NomduJour]

deadtom said:

Yeah its underpinned by the same hardware as the FFRR, RRS and disco

It’s the first car on the new MLA platform - RR,RRS and Discovery 5 are on the D7U platform.

[deadtom]

NomduJour said:

It’s the first car on the new MLA platform - RR,RRS and Discovery 5 are on the D7U platform.

Within JLR documentation, at least that which I have seen, it is D7u. MLA is not mentioned anywhere.

[NomduJour]

Interesting - that presumably precludes a full electric version, which was supposedly going to be available in every product line by 2025. Slovakia production makes sense given that the Discovery on the same platform is already built there (there seem to be lots mentions of L663 alongside L462).

Does that mean that the first car on the MLA platform will be the new Range Rover?

Edited by NomduJour on Monday 10th June 12:39

[Shakermaker]

deadtom said:

NomduJour said:

It’s the first car on the new MLA platform - RR,RRS and Discovery 5 are on the D7U platform.

Within JLR documentation, at least that which I have seen, it is D7u. MLA is not mentioned anywhere.

The original article we're all commenting on also mentions MLA

[Hitch]

shirt said:

you can bleat on about heritage and tradition all you like, but in the real world noone wants a car based on 'heritage' technology which drives worse than a van. you've noted yourself that the devoted hardcore now drive japanese pickups and SUVs, even farmers don't slum it these days.

global sales figures for LR for the 5 years to 2018:



looking at that, as CEO what would you do? develop a niche product based on last century tech which noone buys, or utilise your existing platform in a more capable [*] and cheaper platform to cater for the type of customer who's leaving you for toyota?

[*] i say capable but an FFRR is very capable, just not many use them as intended.

also, if this does turn out to be a modern, lighter D4, then i'm all for it. v8 lux trim for me please.

Fascinating graph. Simplistically the Velar ate the Disco Sport and Evoque's breakfast! Tis a bit crowded in there. Got to be disappointed about the drop in Disco sales with the first brand new model in 15 years!

[deadtom]

Shakermaker said:

The original article we're all commenting on also mentions MLA

Indeed, it's mentioned in the wider media a lot, but no mention of it in the technical docs supplied to us by JLR

[JxJ Jr.]

deadtom said:

Shakermaker said:

The original article we're all commenting on also mentions MLA

Indeed, it's mentioned in the wider media a lot, but no mention of it in the technical docs supplied to us by JLR

But the 'wider media' would also have people believe that the current Evoque is on a 'brand new platform'.

[AnthT]

Yes, but the S2 elise is far superior to the stty old S1

[caw35twist]

The profile is very Disco 4, but it has that Defender-like shoulder running the length of the body beneath the windows, and is that a roof gutter? It also looks like the disguise at the front is hiding circular headlights (good look at 1:18 and close-up glimpse at 1:38 in the video). The final radiator grille treatment will make or break it.

Given that awful concept and what became of the Disco, I'm actually quite encouraged by this although I'm not betting against the final result being a disappointment.

[300bhp/ton]

caw35twist said:

Given that awful concept .

The DC100?


Personally I really liked the styling of this. In fact I wouldn't object to owning a vehicle that looked like this. But for me this type of thing would be instead of a Freelander/Disco type of vehicle. Rather than as a Defender/Series replacement.





Or maybe even as a Defender Sport!

[white_goodman]

Andeh1 said:

Have you ever seen a Wrangler in person? The plastic, the cheapness, the tat it is built from. The interior that is dated & nasty, the hollow sounding everything when tapped. THE 1 STAR NCAP rating - its a genuine 80's vehicle tarted up to be sold to modern day redneck hillbillies who value ''authentic experiences'' as they drink special brew prior to a fight, on a Tuesday morning. Jeep sucker people by allowing them to take the doors & roof off and imagine themselves driving the beach in California, - as opposed to round Southport in the drizzle.... all for the price of £46,000. I would love to be a Jeep Dealership, just to see the sort of ''characters'' that buy these damn things.

Assuming the Defender will be a similar vehicle to the Discovery 5 + 20% ''moar adventure'' it won't even be close.

Agree that the 1 star crash rating is unacceptable for a "family" SUV but there is an all-new Wrangler out and it's supposedly very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLj9D4vo56Q

I think that if you want a brand new "classic" Defender then this is probably the one and you can get a petrol engine and take the roof and doors off too. Not sure if I'd put my family in one but as a "fun" vehicle/off-road toy in SWB format, not such an issue, as it's no worse for safety than an old Defender or a Caterham for instance. If you miss the classic/P38 Range Rover then the Grand Cherokee isn't a bad modern substitute either. More reliable, cheaper and simpler than a new Range Rover. The stuff in the middle is a bit "vanilla" and the "new" car-based Cherokee isn't a patch on the XJ Cherokee but at least they are more accessible price-wise than Land Rover products and have some off-road ability.

[B17NNS]

white_goodman said:

Agree that the 1 star crash rating is unacceptable for a "family" SUV but there is an all-new Wrangler out and it's supposedly very good.

Still wouldn’t want to be in an accident in one.

https://youtu.be/S8kZWa8Q3Gg

[Cold]

2018 model Wrangler: One star. https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/Jeep/Wrangler/...

[Slow]

In the USA just now and lots of people (wealthy people included) buy them not just your bad stereotype. The weather is nice enough you never put the roof up other than winter. Would love one if I lived here year round.

[300bhp/ton]

Cold said:

2018 model Wrangler: One star. https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/Jeep/Wrangler/...

Have you actually read the report though?

Most of the low score seems to be down to lack of things like AEB (automated emergency braking) and other such modern systems. It’s all points based to give a score and percent in different categories. And lack of certain tech impacts each category.

I’m not saying it is the safest car. It clearly isn’t. But NCAP is rather misleading.

The reality is I suspect the Jeep is actually no worse to be in than most European cars from 12-15 years ago. The types of cars 1000’s of people use daily as family wagons.

Also I suspect if you where involved in an accident in a new Jeep and a new Fiat 500. Then despite the lower rating of the Jeep, you’d probably still come off better.

[NomduJour]

“This is a very poor performance, fundamentally structural":

https://www.caradvice.com.au/760529/ancap-jeep-wra...

[300bhp/ton]

NCAP said:

In the side barrier test, the Wrangler scored maximum points, with good protection of all critical body areas.

[Cold]

300bhp/ton said:

Cold said:

2018 model Wrangler: One star. https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/Jeep/Wrangler/...

Have you actually read the report though?

Most of the low score seems to be down to lack of things like AEB (automated emergency braking) and other such modern systems. It’s all points based to give a score and percent in different categories. And lack of certain tech impacts each category.

I’m not saying it is the safest car. It clearly isn’t. But NCAP is rather misleading.

The reality is I suspect the Jeep is actually no worse to be in than most European cars from 12-15 years ago. The types of cars 1000’s of people use daily as family wagons.

Also I suspect if you where involved in an accident in a new Jeep and a new Fiat 500. Then despite the lower rating of the Jeep, you’d probably still come off better.

I suspect there is an element of bias in your assumptions, whereas the NCAP is impartial.
It has one star. One. Pathetic for a car manufactured today.

[Bill]

300bhp/ton said:

NCAP said:

In the side barrier test, the Wrangler scored maximum points, with good protection of all critical body areas.

Which begs the question of how badly it must have done in the other tests.