RE: 'The toughest, most capable Land Rover ever'
Discussion
NomduJour said:
There are loads of them - more so in sheep country, on higher ground etc.
Ah maybe. This is Berkshire so hardly the welsh valleys. 
One think I remember of the early defenders was how easy they were to work on. There seemed to be a huge amount of space around everything. I wonder if they'll put any effort into that with the new one.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 30th April 11:24
smilo996 said:
The usual suspects moaning about progress.
The Defender was a huge leap forward from the Series with all its new fangled tech like coil springs, diesels, turbo diesels, and chelsea tractor bling like a plastic dash, mats, decent seats, inertia reel seat belts and a radio.
Not sure if you are being serious or not.The Defender was a huge leap forward from the Series with all its new fangled tech like coil springs, diesels, turbo diesels, and chelsea tractor bling like a plastic dash, mats, decent seats, inertia reel seat belts and a radio.
The Defender is a superb vehicle, but it really wasn't all that different from a Series and many components are interchangeable. The coil springs were not new fangled either, Land Rover had been using them on the Range Rover for well over a decade prior to the Ninety and One Ten models (they weren't Defenders until about 1991).
cognac1979 said:
I live in the country and do not know of one farmer or similar person who has a Land Rover/Range Rover of any type. The people who really need a proper 4x4 have mostly Landcruisers, Hiluxes or Isuzu D-Maxs'. They won't be buying the new Defender and neither they or Land Rover will be too worried about that. It's going to be aimed at a different market and I'm sure it will be a great success.
I like seeing kitted out versions of the old Defender however would never buy one. I had one as a work vehicle for a while and hated driving it. I'm sure the new one will be very lifestyle oriented and if people want that than fair enough.
It's a bit like the VW Transporter scene in some ways.
That's strange because I'm a rural type and still have a house deep in the boonies and loads of my farmer mates (and their mates) have LR/RR products ranging from foul and beaten Defenders to thoroughly smart FFRR's and everything in between. Not sure where you live!I like seeing kitted out versions of the old Defender however would never buy one. I had one as a work vehicle for a while and hated driving it. I'm sure the new one will be very lifestyle oriented and if people want that than fair enough.
It's a bit like the VW Transporter scene in some ways.
spikyone said:
Nerdherder said:
spikyone said:
Sadly all LR/RR models since the Evoque have looked like the Evoque. Unless you park them next to each other it's near impossible to tell them apart. I hope I'm wrong, but I imagine this will go the same way.
The Velar looks distinctly different. And better than the other LR models to my eyes. Edited by Nerdherder on Tuesday 30th April 08:37
FFRR:
RRS:
Velar:
Evoque:
Disco Sport:
OK, the Disco has (slightly) different headlights. Otherwise, a different air vent here, a slight tweak to the bumper there, but in isolation I would not be able to tell from a photo which one I was looking at. The LR/RR range ten years ago had cars with a common styling feel, but individual looks. It might be easy to tell them apart in the flesh because one is bigger than the other, but after the Mk1 Evoque they've spent about 2 minutes on styling.
And yes, I agree that Audi, Merc, and BMW have all gone down that route. It's lazy when they do it, too.
Andeh1 said:
spikyone said:
Nerdherder said:
spikyone said:
Sadly all LR/RR models since the Evoque have looked like the Evoque. Unless you park them next to each other it's near impossible to tell them apart. I hope I'm wrong, but I imagine this will go the same way.
The Velar looks distinctly different. And better than the other LR models to my eyes. Edited by Nerdherder on Tuesday 30th April 08:37
It's lazy when they do it, too.
All car builders find 'their style' of doing it and stick to it for brand identity.
jhonn said:
Compared to earlier iterations I don't consider the last of the Defenders to be a 'simple' basic vehicle - traction control, ABS, air-con and a (relatively highly tuned small capacity) common-rail diesel are modern (and mostly necessary and desirable) complications.
The new one will be more complicated to meet the needs and expectations of the market and regulations - that's the world we live in nowadays.
ABS and TCS was available since 1998. Aircon was fitted to all NAS models way before the Puma engines. As were ECU's for the TD5's and V8's. The Puma's are barely more complex and are only so in the wiring department for emissions and engine. The rest of the vehicle is still pretty much identical to a 1984 example.The new one will be more complicated to meet the needs and expectations of the market and regulations - that's the world we live in nowadays.
I'm genuinely excited by it especially as it will hopefully be a modern day successor to Disco 4. I think sales of new Defender will hit Disco 5 sales and it will end up being a bit of a lame duck in a few years time.
Does anyone know if new Defender will likely be available with new IG-6 engine?Or will it be the bore of 4 (cylinders) throughout?
Does anyone know if new Defender will likely be available with new IG-6 engine?Or will it be the bore of 4 (cylinders) throughout?
That will be the all-new Jeep Wrangler which scored one (1!) star in Euro NCAP testing, yes? Do you really think that’s going to fly for the new Defender?
https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/Jeep/Wrangler/...
https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/Jeep/Wrangler/...
The Mad Monk said:
Tom_Spotley_When said:
Yep.
Next but one car for me, I think. First new Land Rover I'll have purchased.
Petrol, auto, long wheel base. Dark green, no tinted windows, light interior.
I suspect the furthest off-road it'll go is the car-park at the Polo. Lovely.
Yep.Next but one car for me, I think. First new Land Rover I'll have purchased.
Petrol, auto, long wheel base. Dark green, no tinted windows, light interior.
I suspect the furthest off-road it'll go is the car-park at the Polo. Lovely.
Good idea.
What could possibly go wrong?
ts and giggles, I might even get a hybrid. Land Rover's famed electrical standards mean it's bound to be totally reliable, right?NomduJour said:
For the millionth time, LR are just not in a position to churn out hundreds of thousands of ultra-basic, low-value-added vehicles to the developing world.
Look at the pickup market in the UK - the majority have all the toys and features a normal car has, hence why the price of them is offer over £40k with VAT.
Two points, if your last statement is true, then again why is that a reason not to sell into that market?Look at the pickup market in the UK - the majority have all the toys and features a normal car has, hence why the price of them is offer over £40k with VAT.
And for the record, they aren't...
300bhp/ton said:
Not sure if you are being serious or not.
The Defender is a superb vehicle, but it really wasn't all that different from a Series and many components are interchangeable. The coil springs were not new fangled either, Land Rover had been using them on the Range Rover for well over a decade prior to the Ninety and One Ten models (they weren't Defenders until about 1991).
Having owned (and worked on...far too much) a string of Series and 90/110 LRs I can say that there very few interchangeable parts between them. Some bits of the body, then little industry-standard things like light units, switches and other electric bits, plus a very few of the ancillary mechanical parts (most of which are from the Lucas/CAV catalogue anyway). They are very similar, and working on a 90/110 after years of Series ownership everything seems very 'familiar' but the amount of directly interchangeable parts is tiny, especially once you get out of the first couple of years of coil-spring production when they used 2.25-litre engines and sliding windows. After that the engines, transmissions, axles, suspension, bodywork and interior are all entirely different. The Defender is a superb vehicle, but it really wasn't all that different from a Series and many components are interchangeable. The coil springs were not new fangled either, Land Rover had been using them on the Range Rover for well over a decade prior to the Ninety and One Ten models (they weren't Defenders until about 1991).
And while the coil springs may not have literally been 'new fangled' they were certainly treated as such. When I got properly into the 'Land Rover scene' in the mid-2000s there were still people who genuinely looked down on 90/110/Defenders as 'modern s
t' that was 'too complicated' and 'soft' They were still trundling around in battered SIIAs and SIIIs and called the later stuff 'Zebedees' as an insult. They had 'Leaf-Sprung Dirt Technique' stickers in their rear windows. But of course the people with this sort of mindset, who refuse to buy a 20-year old Land Rover let alone new one, are the sort people who should be made Forward Planning Directors according to some people.
300bhp/ton said:
ABS and TCS was available since 1998. Aircon was fitted to all NAS models way before the Puma engines. As were ECU's for the TD5's and V8's. The Puma's are barely more complex and are only so in the wiring department for emissions and engine. The rest of the vehicle is still pretty much identical to a 1984 example.
OK - not going to argue the point with you - it was my opinion that I didn't consider the last of the Defenders to be a 'simple' vehicle, aspects of which I and others explained - you obviously have a different opinion.300bhp/ton said:
Two points, if your last statement is true, then again why is that a reason not to sell into that market?
And for the record, they aren't...
There will inevitably be some crossover between the low-end Defender and the more expensive twin-cabs if the monthly payments aren’t miles away.And for the record, they aren't...
How many bare-bones, plastic-matted pickups do you ever see over here? Maybe the odd estate vehicle, local authority groundsmen etc, but the majority are tarted-up VAT-eligible twin-cabs, with big shiny wheels, leather seats, sat nav and all the other things £40k+ cars come with.
2xChevrons said:
For the last 20-odd years of its life the Defender had fully electronic engine control, twin-programme throttle mapping for high and low range, electronic traction control and ABS and so on and on. You could buy it with climate control, leather seats, alloy wheels, and 'Brunel finish' silver headlamps surrounds. Not to mention all the gaudy special editions with two-tone roof panels, diamond-cut wheels and X-tech pocketed headlamps grilles and so on.
The idea that the New Defender will some erroneous high-tech replacement for a car which you could fix with baling twine and a hammer is one of the more pernicious untruths surrounding this furrore.
For the answer I think all you need do is look at a brand new Jeep Wrangler or Jimny and compare to a Disco 4. The Disco is far more fragile and complex.The idea that the New Defender will some erroneous high-tech replacement for a car which you could fix with baling twine and a hammer is one of the more pernicious untruths surrounding this furrore.
There is no reason why LR couldn't make the new Defender more akin to the old model and in-line with other leading current 4x4's, both of which have had a major revision in the past 18 months.
2xChevrons said:
It's got the 'barrel-side' waistline
Defenders aren't barrel sided, a Discovery 1 was. Defenders are flat or slab sided.It makes a huge difference off road and allows better visibility to the ground and tyres and less prone to rubbing on tress and rocks.
2xChevrons said:
, it's got the large 'stuck on' wheel arch eyebrows
Has it? Looks more like a modeled 1 piece panel. Again not realy "Defender".2xChevrons said:
, it's got that largely flat and unbroken upper rear quarter panel
eh? Sorry not sure what you mean here.2xChevrons said:
it seems to have a straight full-length gutter/seam along the roofline and it has a flat rear with a right angle rear corner at the 'tub'.
You mean just like these do? Infact in profile and the arches this seems more the inspiration than the Defender was styling wise.
2xChevrons said:
It's also got a much more near-vertical (less raked) windscreen than the Disco.
Your eyes are either a lot better or a lot worse than mine. 
The windscreen rake is no-where near vertical to my eyes. And would look to be about 100% identical to a D4.
2xChevrons said:
There is a lot of Defender 'design language' in there, and (unsurprisingly) very little in the way of Discovery cues.
I think we will have to agree to disagree, it looks like a Disco 4 in cammo to me.spikyone said:
Nerdherder said:
spikyone said:
Sadly all LR/RR models since the Evoque have looked like the Evoque. Unless you park them next to each other it's near impossible to tell them apart. I hope I'm wrong, but I imagine this will go the same way.
The Velar looks distinctly different. And better than the other LR models to my eyes. Edited by Nerdherder on Tuesday 30th April 08:37
FFRR:
RRS:
Velar:
Evoque:
Disco Sport:
OK, the Disco has (slightly) different headlights. Otherwise, a different air vent here, a slight tweak to the bumper there, but in isolation I would not be able to tell from a photo which one I was looking at. The LR/RR range ten years ago had cars with a common styling feel, but individual looks. It might be easy to tell them apart in the flesh because one is bigger than the other, but after the Mk1 Evoque they've spent about 2 minutes on styling.
And yes, I agree that Audi, Merc, and BMW have all gone down that route. It's lazy when they do it, too.
cognac1979 said:
I live in the country and do not know of one farmer or similar person who has a Land Rover/Range Rover of any type. The people who really need a proper 4x4 have mostly Landcruisers, Hiluxes or Isuzu D-Maxs'.
I also live in the country and I'm active in the farming community. Lots of local farmers and smallholders have Land Rover's. In the last couple of years the numbers have started to diminish, because they haven't been able to buy a new Defender.Lots of other LR products also still common. Go to any ploughing match, horse show, shooting event or off roading venue and you'll find it littered with Land Rover products still.
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