RE: Aston Martin Vantage AMR arrives - with manual

[Arsecati]

Redline88 said:

The thing is, most people who will drive this car on a circuit won’t be able to extract 80% of the full potential of the car. On the road, that’s probably drops to 30% at the maximum. In such instances, the 0.2 seconds of a quicker shift make no difference whatsoever but having the ability to connect man and machine can make the drive more enjoyable.

So hats off to Aston for continuing to offer the option of a stick and 3 pedals - I’m a big fan

Nothing to do with extracting 0.2 of a second off a laptime. Suspension, electronics, tyres, etc., have advanced so far that even the most moderately powered car these days will string a stretch of corners together, far, far quicker than a supercar/sportscar from 5/10/20 years ago. As I said, I have a 30 year old 944S2 and 205GTi (2 of my 3 dream cars that were out when I passed my test 30 years ago - the third is a Countach, but I'm still working on that one!), and anything but a manual is unimaginable. But they were/are slow, and so a manual far adds to the fun, but with the vast majority of modern cars with 400bhp+? I want to STAY connected to that car, keeping it in the palm of my hands, gearchanges at the fingertips - fully focussed on the road ahead: I simply don't understand how a manual is perceived as being more 'connected', when you are continually having to break that connection, reaching down to some stick poking out of the floor. But each to their own - there's time and a place for a manual gearbox, but I personally don't believe this is the best place for it.

[aston addict]

howardhughes said:

aston addict said:

Seen a few of these in the flesh and they are pretty arresting, but so heavily dependent on spec. Leave the chavtastic 60yr thing, save the cash and spec a nice colour without black wheels. At least it’s something different, compared to the ubiquitous 911.

And plaudits to Aston for having a manual in the range.

I'm a big Aston Martin fan and equally a 911 lover too. As for the latter there is nothing wrong with a reliable everyday super car even if they are 'ubiquitous'

I’m also a 911 fan (well most of the variants, simpler the better). I’ve just had a rethink on my view on the styling direction that Aston has taken - initially I thought the new Vantage is ugly but it’s actually growing on me. Still wouldn’t call it pretty. But it’s an interior and front end facelift away from being closer to pretty.

Without wishing to ignite a whole debate on here about the evolution of the 911’s design, I’m just giving Aston kudos on a new brave new design (on the outside at least).

I think Porsche have been victims of their own success with the 911 - they’re a common sight around where I live and I’m not sure I’d say they are any more or less reliable than the competition?

[wab172uk]

Redline88 said:

ReaperCushions said:

Arsecati said:

I've as much interest in a manual one of these as I do in leaf-spring suspension and cross-plys. Absolutely hilarious in my 30 year old Porker and 205 GTi.............. but I want my hands on the wheel and gearshifts at my fingertips in something like this. But each to their own I guess.

100% agree on this. I don't understand how a performance variant can really have a manual gear shift anymore with all the advancement in auto box technology.

You're essentially blunting the performance of the car.

A manual in the standard car.. makes sense. People who want a more visceral driving experience.. sure I get it.

The thing is, most people who will drive this car on a circuit won’t be able to extract 80% of the full potential of the car. On the road, that’s probably drops to 30% at the maximum. In such instances, the 0.2 seconds of a quicker shift make no difference whatsoever but having the ability to connect man and machine can make the drive more enjoyable.

So hats off to Aston for continuing to offer the option of a stick and 3 pedals - I’m a big fan

100% agree with this. There is more to life than 0.2 seconds to 60. Most of these cars will never see a track day in it's lifetime. And even with an Auto gearbox, average Joe will still not extract anything what the car is actually capable of.

I'd rather drive at 70% with a good manual gearbox, than go at 100% with the car changing gears for me. Interaction with man and machine is what driving a nice car on nice roads is all about.

At least Aston are giving it's customers a choice. Something that is lacking with other manufacturers. So well done Aston.

[wab172uk]

Arsecati said:

Redline88 said:

The thing is, most people who will drive this car on a circuit won’t be able to extract 80% of the full potential of the car. On the road, that’s probably drops to 30% at the maximum. In such instances, the 0.2 seconds of a quicker shift make no difference whatsoever but having the ability to connect man and machine can make the drive more enjoyable.

So hats off to Aston for continuing to offer the option of a stick and 3 pedals - I’m a big fan

Nothing to do with extracting 0.2 of a second off a laptime. Suspension, electronics, tyres, etc., have advanced so far that even the most moderately powered car these days will string a stretch of corners together, far, far quicker than a supercar/sportscar from 5/10/20 years ago. As I said, I have a 30 year old 944S2 and 205GTi (2 of my 3 dream cars that were out when I passed my test 30 years ago - the third is a Countach, but I'm still working on that one!), and anything but a manual is unimaginable. But they were/are slow, and so a manual far adds to the fun, but with the vast majority of modern cars with 400bhp+? I want to STAY connected to that car, keeping it in the palm of my hands, gearchanges at the fingertips - fully focussed on the road ahead: I simply don't understand how a manual is perceived as being more 'connected', when you are continually having to break that connection, reaching down to some stick poking out of the floor. But each to their own - there's time and a place for a manual gearbox, but I personally don't believe this is the best place for it.

As Aston have given the customer a choice, you are free to buy an Automatic version, while someone else is free to purchase a manual version. 2 customers, 2 sales, both happy chappies.

You feel connected your way, and those of us who can drive, are connected our way.

[Rawwr]

XJR500bhp said:

That’s cause you’re a poof

I'm gay. One of my vehicles is a manual, one is a dual-clutch auto and one is a sequential. Stick that in your pigeonhole.

[Harry_523]

Manuals are more involving because:

1. You control the lock up with a pedal. No torque converter slipping and closing whenever it feels necessary, all i've used are jerky pulling out of junctions.

2. You can skip gears up and down. No having to pull a paddle (which is just pressing a microswitch) 5 times

3. Heel and toe downshifting is fun and sounds sexy

[Arsecati]

wab172uk said:

As Aston have given the customer a choice, you are free to buy an Automatic version, while someone else is free to purchase a manual version. 2 customers, 2 sales, both happy chappies.

You feel connected your way, and those of us who can drive, are connected our way.

Ooooh, so close. I was about to 100% agree with you until your last sentence: 'those of us who can drive'. Unnecessary there my friend - I already mentioned two of the cars in my stable (944S2 and 205 1.9GTi), so I am well aware what fun there is to be had in a manual. But that's fine - throw the lazy insult if you feel the need. Such a pity - the internet forum holy grail of two strangers being able to amicably 'agree to disagree' without resorting to insult, has unfortunately been snatched from our grasp at the last hurdle. Oh well.

[Arsecati]

Rawwr said:

I'm gay. One of my vehicles is a manual, one is a dual-clutch auto and one is a sequential. Stick that in your pigeonhole.

He has issues. Doesn't actually have a nice car because he enjoys driving, just needs a 'big' car to make up for insecurities elsewhere.

[AmosMoses]

Harry_523 said:

Manuals are more involving because:

1. You control the lock up with a pedal. No torque converter slipping and closing whenever it feels necessary, all i've used are jerky pulling out of junctions.

2. You can skip gears up and down. No having to pull a paddle (which is just pressing a microswitch) 5 times

3. Heel and toe downshifting is fun and sounds sexy

Don't forget dumping the clutch for big smokey burnouts

[wab172uk]

Arsecati said:

Ooooh, so close. I was about to 100% agree with you until your last sentence: 'those of us who can drive'. Unnecessary there my friend - I already mentioned two of the cars in my stable (944S2 and 205 1.9GTi), so I am well aware what fun there is to be had in a manual. But that's fine - throw the lazy insult if you feel the need. Such a pity - the internet forum holy grail of two strangers being able to amicably 'agree to disagree' without resorting to insult, has unfortunately been snatched from our grasp at the last hurdle. Oh well.

Calm down. It was a joke, hence the `wink` emoji.

We all feel connected in our own way to our cars. I just prefer a manual.

Neither of us are right. Neither of us are wrong. But as long as manufacturers give us both a choice, then we are all happy with out purchases.

[GroundEffect]

Harry_523 said:

Manuals are more involving because:

1. You control the lock up with a pedal. No torque converter slipping and closing whenever it feels necessary, all i've used are jerky pulling out of junctions.

2. You can skip gears up and down. No having to pull a paddle (which is just pressing a microswitch) 5 times

3. Heel and toe downshifting is fun and sounds sexy

1) Slipping and closing? Do you know how a torque converter works? A torque-converter auto is far smoother off the line than a manual or DCT.

2) A good SW package (911s do this) will allow you to hold the Left paddle and it'll do as many downshifts as it can in one go; and on the flipside a good auto will try and get you up to a cruising gear as quickly as your demand implies (i.e. if you are at 25% pedal from a launch then you back out to 5-10% for a few seconds, it'll do a multiple upshift)

3) A good SW package will flare the engine on downshifts

I have an Elise - I can appreciate a good manual - but this car should have a DCT.

[Arsecati]

wab172uk said:

Calm down. It was a joke, hence the `wink` emoji.

We all feel connected in our own way to our cars. I just prefer a manual.

Neither of us are right. Neither of us are wrong. But as long as manufacturers give us both a choice, then we are all happy with out purchases.

Ahhh, apologies for that - I missed the emoji. I was actually reading the post while blasting down the motorway, and a bugger of a police car came up behind me, so I had to drop the phone quick! ;)

However, I do still have to try re-emphasise my point, as you still seem to imply I have something against manuals: remember - I have a 30 year old Porker which only has ABS and power steering, but also a 205 1.9 GTi - which doesn't even have that, so again, I'm well aware of the joys of a good manual!!!!

I just believe that we have reached a tipping point now, that with the bonkers capabilities of modern sportscars, that more and more cars are better having their 'fun' extracted and exploited with an auto. Can you honestly tell me that you don't believe there is a single car out there, which is more fun and enjoyable to drive with an auto than a manual? You've never dreamt of blasting around a track or forest road, imagining yourself as either Schumacher or Loeb being able to bang up and down the box with your fingers? ;);)

[FerrariGuy007]

Arsecati said:

Ahhh, apologies for that - I missed the emoji. I was actually reading the post while blasting down the motorway, and a bugger of a police car came up behind me, so I had to drop the phone quick! ;)

However, I do still have to try re-emphasise my point, as you still seem to imply I have something against manuals: remember - I have a 30 year old Porker which only has ABS and power steering, but also a 205 1.9 GTi - which doesn't even have that, so again, I'm well aware of the joys of a good manual!!!!

I just believe that we have reached a tipping point now, that with the bonkers capabilities of modern sportscars, that more and more cars are better having their 'fun' extracted and exploited with an auto. Can you honestly tell me that you don't believe there is a single car out there, which is more fun and enjoyable to drive with an auto than a manual? You've never dreamt of blasting around a track or forest road, imagining yourself as either Schumacher or Loeb being able to bang up and down the box with your fingers? ;);)

Nope. And having to pull both paddles for neutral is dumb.

[edoverheels]

The manual/automatic argument will go on. Some cars suit it more than others perhaps?
Seems sort of fitting in an Aston where the joy is probably in owning,sitting in and looking at the thing as much as being able to go very quickly in it whilst making a fantastic noise and for some people a manual gearbox may enhance that experience.
In a Maclaren where the USP seems to be speed and the ruthless pursuit of dynamics and efficiency, a manual gear change would be an anachronism and feel ridiculous.
Having the choice is the key. When we have no choice will be a sad day.
Intellectually I think that I prefer the Maclaren approach but in reality I would probably have a lot more fun, at least 95% of the time in that magnificent Aston.
Luckily for me I am spared that difficult decision due to my meagre financial standing.

[Harry_523]

GroundEffect said:

1) Slipping and closing? Do you know how a torque converter works? A torque-converter auto is far smoother off the line than a manual or DCT.

2) A good SW package (911s do this) will allow you to hold the Left paddle and it'll do as many downshifts as it can in one go; and on the flipside a good auto will try and get you up to a cruising gear as quickly as your demand implies (i.e. if you are at 25% pedal from a launch then you back out to 5-10% for a few seconds, it'll do a multiple upshift)

3) A good SW package will flare the engine on downshifts

I have an Elise - I can appreciate a good manual - but this car should have a DCT.

1) is it though really? try pulling away from a junction quickly with steering lock on. Revs flair, converter slips, locks up and judders away about 3 seconds after you ask it to do anything. And thats the ZF8 in a new 5 series, apparently one of the best around

2) they give you lowest gear available, but not a specific gear. If you want to change from 6th to 3rd and back, you gotta pull some paddles

3) no skill or engagement involved with the computer flaring revs though, hence less fun

This car should always have the option of a manual, to please people like me, and hit at sales of GT3s

[Arsecati]

FerrariGuy007 said:

Nope. And having to pull both paddles for neutral is dumb.

Sorry, but you are?

[Arsecati]

Harry_523 said:

1) is it though really? try pulling away from a junction quickly with steering lock on. Revs flair, converter slips, locks up and judders away about 3 seconds after you ask it to do anything. And thats the ZF8 in a new 5 series, apparently one of the best around

2) they give you lowest gear available, but not a specific gear. If you want to change from 6th to 3rd and back, you gotta pull some paddles

3) no skill or engagement involved with the computer flaring revs though, hence less fun

This car should always have the option of a manual, to please people like me, and hit at sales of GT3s

Hmm, ok, so no computers involved with the 'AMSHIFT' then, which auto-blips your downshifts and gives you full-throttle upshifts? All them seamless, faultless and lightning quick 'manual' changes are all your own work then? Ahhhh, very interesting.

Out of curiousity - with your point 1: is this your personal experience? Or something you read somewhere? As after hundreds of thousands of miles in modern autos in other German vehicles (I don't drive BMW's), what you have described is a concept completely alien to me. I guess I'm just not doing it right.

Whatever makes you happy though - nobody else's opinion matters a jot: you keep chasing that breeze my man!

[Howrare]

Followed an Orange Vantage along the M56 yesterday, and thought it looked awesome. Way better in the metal than in pictures.