RE: Pontiac Firebird: Spotted

[FIREBIRDC9]

s m said:

Three different flavours of ‘bird

Have i misunderstood this?

Firebird Trans AM , Estimated top speed 115mph?
Seems a tad low....

Also i didn't realise that the Formula was the more expensive variant, more powerful too apparently?

[s m]

FIREBIRDC9 said:

s m said:

Three different flavours of ‘bird

Have i misunderstood this?

Firebird Trans AM , Estimated top speed 115mph?
Seems a tad low....

Also i didn't realise that the Formula was the more expensive variant, more powerful too apparently?

Look at final drives/acceleration of the 2 - Transam had a few more bhp

[Shnozz]

I do find it strange how many of these American classics don’t seem to have caught the crazy inflation of the rest of the classic market in the last few years. These Firebirds, early Camaros, corvette c3 etc. All within a reasonable budget still, yet there’s a £100k price tag on an old escort etc.

[aeropilot]

Shnozz said:

I do find it strange how many of these American classics don’t seem to have caught the crazy inflation of the rest of the classic market in the last few years. These Firebirds, early Camaros, corvette c3 etc. All within a reasonable budget still, yet there’s a £100k price tag on an old escort etc.

Suggest you check the value on a '73 SD455 T/A, or a '71 Hemi Cuda or a BOSS 429 Mustang etc if you want a reality check on prices.

The desirable stuff (not the run of the mill junk) makes Ford Escort prices look very affordable.
And why do people keep bhing about bloody Escort values without understanding the very particular reason that they are what they are, and not a true reflection on the rest of the market for that very reason

[Shnozz]

Well that told me. As you were.

[aeropilot]

Here you go.....

A '73 SD455 Trans Am, a snip at a mere $239k.........

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale...

[MuscleSaloon]

aeropilot said:

Shnozz said:

I do find it strange how many of these American classics don’t seem to have caught the crazy inflation of the rest of the classic market in the last few years. These Firebirds, early Camaros, corvette c3 etc. All within a reasonable budget still, yet there’s a £100k price tag on an old escort etc.

Suggest you check the value on a '73 SD455 T/A, or a '71 Hemi Cuda or a BOSS 429 Mustang etc if you want a reality check on prices.

The desirable stuff (not the run of the mill junk) makes Ford Escort prices look very affordable.
And why do people keep bhing about bloody Escort values without understanding the very particular reason that they are what they are, and not a true reflection on the rest of the market for that very reason

American classic prices can be complex. But very broadly speaking I would say much of it represents great value in the UK compared to the rest of the classic market.

The rare / more desirable stuff has never been cheap, they are a bit like property. When I could buy a good Formula 400 for £6k you needed 4 times that amount for an SD455, which is probably not so different now.

For anyone interested in the market, sale prices achieved etc. keep an eye out for American Car Collector from a good newsagent.

[MuscleSaloon]

aeropilot said:

Here you go.....

A '73 SD455 Trans Am, a snip at a mere $239k.........

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale...

Lottery ticket purchased ( again ) ….

[s m]

aeropilot said:

Here you go.....

A '73 SD455 Trans Am, a snip at a mere $239k.........

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale...

Or a Boss 429 for a few dollars more.......

$269,000

https://www.rkmotors.com/vehicles/2678/1969-ford-m...

They’re just as keen on old muscle cars as Europeans are on old 911s/Ferraris

[JimbobVFR]

CDP said:

With JDM stuff the speedo runs out at 110 mph. You know you're motoring when you hit the rev limiter in top...

My grey import Honda VFR400 had a 110mph Speedo, (well actually 180KPH) and a speed limiter which consisted of a contact in the Speedo that cut power when the needle reached that figure. 5 minutes with a pair of pliers and the needle would go all the way round the clock off the end of the scale

[deltashad]

You need serious chest hair to drive one of these.

[MuscleSaloon]

There are plenty of driver quality Super Duty's well below $100k. You could still have some fun with one of those.

[aeropilot]

MuscleSaloon said:

There are plenty of driver quality Super Duty's well below $100k. You could still have some fun with one of those.

$100k is still a lot of coin for something that you are still trying to keep some value to, because of what it is, or rather what its VIN tag is.

I'd rather spend half of that on a 'clone' that you can have fun with but not be too precious about as if something happens to it, it can be just repaired and 'recloned' without seriously damaging its 'historical' worth so to speak. Cue more fun again.

For example.......this lovely Yenko clone for half that sum floats my boat a LOT more

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/chevro...

[J4CKO]

FIREBIRDC9 said:

aeropilot said:

The most sought after spec by collectors for a SD455, so you'll need a very deep wallet..........as good ones in that spec are now $150-175k cars if they come up for sale.

Its a dream
Not necessarily a realistic one mind!

I have a theory that as the 50's 60's and 70's generation begins to die out. The cars of their youth are going to decrease in value as they become less desirable.

The Average 90's kids don't care for a car released 30 years before they were born.
I on the other hand will be there to snap them up

We shall see if that actually happens.

Edited by FIREBIRDC9 on Monday 13th May 10:32

I have had similar thoughts about certain old cars, they will have peaks and troughs as demand rises and falls for them based o a lot of factors, mk1 and 2 Escorts have gone daft price wise as all the guys who had or wanted one are older and richer, trouble is, younger folk get the big via stuff like Fast and Furiosu films, or Xbox games.

Most original E Type owners are probably dead now but they aren’t giving those away

[aeropilot]

J4CKO said:

mk1 and 2 Escorts have gone daft price wise as all the guys who had or wanted one are older and richer

Here we go again.....

Mk1 and Mk2 Escort prices are what they are because of the hugely increased popularity from people with deep wallets of Historic Rallying and the need for a legit VIN to build a FIA registered car. The demand for the best rally car ever will thus command suitable large price tags for the remaining legit identities let alone good shells.
Mk1 and Mk2 Escort prices are in their own bubble, and are not representative of the market in general.........and the remaining 'real' collectors Mex's, RS2's, BDA's etc soared in value as a consequence of this largely, effectively pricing them out of the rich rally boys who would just like to buy them for the mint shells and turned them into a rally car.

[FIREBIRDC9]

s m said:

Look at final drives/acceleration of the 2 - Trans Am had a few more bhp

I see the Acceleration is faster.
But the chart says the Formula's est top speed is 135mph whereas the T/A is 115mph.

Did the Formula have a higher top end than the Trans Am?

I thought the T/A would have been the fastest of the lot.
Consider me surprised if otherwise

[FIREBIRDC9]

J4CKO said:

I have had similar thoughts about certain old cars, they will have peaks and troughs as demand rises and falls for them based o a lot of factors, mk1 and 2 Escorts have gone daft price wise as all the guys who had or wanted one are older and richer, trouble is, younger folk get the big via stuff like Fast and Furiosu films, or Xbox games.

Most original E Type owners are probably dead now but they aren’t giving those away

Just the other day i was at a small show in Basingstoke
There was a pre-war section.

Chatted with my friend about them, every single pre-war car was owned by older men.
No young ones!
For pre-war cars especially, i expect the market will tank.
I don't know any people my age interested in pre war cars and i can't see this changing.
(When i say pre-war i don't mean high end stuff. I mean little Austins and Model T's)

Its an interesting thought.

[aeropilot]

FIREBIRDC9 said:

But the chart says the Formula's est top speed is 135mph whereas the T/A is 115mph.

Did the Formula have a higher top end than the Trans Am?

I thought the T/A would have been the fastest of the lot.
Consider me surprised if otherwise

As already said, but you're not grasping it, look at the final drive ratios of the two.

Formula 400 is 3.07:1 whereas the T/A is equipped with a 3.73:1 (probably as part of the 4-speed package)

There is your answer.

[FIREBIRDC9]

aeropilot said:

As already said, but you're not grasping it, look at the final drive ratios of the two.

Formula 400 is 3.07:1 whereas the T/A is equipped with a 3.73:1 (probably as part of the 4-speed package)

There is your answer.

Ahhhh , i've not heard the term final drive before.

Done some googling.

Learn something new everyday.
I always thought the Trans Am was the fastest of all the Firebird models.
In acceleration only it would seem.

[aeropilot]

FIREBIRDC9 said:

Ahhhh , i've not heard the term final drive before.

Done some googling.

Learn something new everyday.

Fair play on one hand

But the old git in me finds that scary on the other hand!!

FIREBIRDC9 said:

I always thought the Trans Am was the fastest of all the Firebird models.
In acceleration only it would seem.

It depends on the options, the USA back then had a huge variations in axle ratio options depending on gearbox, and other options fitted such as air con etc,.
A T/A with the same TH400 auto box as the Formula 400 in that test would likely have a higher axle ratio, than the 4-speed car, which would give it a higher top speed closer to or more than the F400.
You are looking at this to one dimensionally.