RE: Toyota GR Supra: Driven
Discussion
I was really looking forwards to this. I mean just look at the Lexus LFA from 15 year ago. Now there is a real collaboration. A Yamaha engine!! Should not be too difficult to use some of that DNA and up to date technology for such a massive revered car company and give us something really exciting and good value that would send Caymans and TT RS s scuttling away in embarrassment and keep the Carreras and R8s right on their toes. My heart sank as soon as I heard BMW was involved. The original Supra was a phenomenon and beat most supercars round the track and was usable every day. It was a toss up between that and the R33 Skyline but the Supra was officially imported at the time whereas the Skyline was not.
It looked unique, went like almost nothing else. A motoring journalist phenomenon.
Now we get what literally looks like a genetic abnormality, misshapen, almost like an early Marcos and inside its german. There is no amazing cutting edge Japanese technology. People did not mind relatively bland interiors - eg Skyline- as long you beat everything in site.
Even the power. The same level as a 20 year old Audi S4 V8. Nothing ground breaking there then. How about good value which is something else the original Supra excelled in? Nope.
In short there is nothing to recommend this b
d child. Its an ugly Z5.
What Toyota are doing and SHAME ON THEM, is marketing this lazy clone on the fading wake of a legend. Why not just be honest and say this is a BMW knock off for less money to make it palatable. Whoops its not for less money.
Well they won't be getting any of mine. Whoever was responsible for this needs to be sent to the Himalayas to meditate on the error of their ways the betrayal of countless doting fans who have been slapped in the face. Or just sacked.
It looked unique, went like almost nothing else. A motoring journalist phenomenon.
Now we get what literally looks like a genetic abnormality, misshapen, almost like an early Marcos and inside its german. There is no amazing cutting edge Japanese technology. People did not mind relatively bland interiors - eg Skyline- as long you beat everything in site.
Even the power. The same level as a 20 year old Audi S4 V8. Nothing ground breaking there then. How about good value which is something else the original Supra excelled in? Nope.
In short there is nothing to recommend this b
d child. Its an ugly Z5.What Toyota are doing and SHAME ON THEM, is marketing this lazy clone on the fading wake of a legend. Why not just be honest and say this is a BMW knock off for less money to make it palatable. Whoops its not for less money.
Well they won't be getting any of mine. Whoever was responsible for this needs to be sent to the Himalayas to meditate on the error of their ways the betrayal of countless doting fans who have been slapped in the face. Or just sacked.
cerb4.5lee said:
I'm a big fan of the M57/N57 3 litre engine though, and I've done a combined mileage of over 220k miles in a E90 330d/F13 640d without any problems.
Me too, I've had quite a few 335i with the N54 twin turbo engine, one of them was just short of 200,000 miles when I sold it (and it was still on its original turbos, clutch, etc. Pretty good going, the engine was very strong even at 197,000 miles and having taken a fair bit of abuse it never used any oil or water and loved to rev hard even at that mileage. BMW's are bad for throwing up engine lights which Toyota owners will take some getting used to as Toyota's are far more reliable....The 335i turbo's were a problem for BMW with rattling waste gates due to a simple flaw in the design (made my Mitsubishi apparently not sure why BMW would use them).
The engine in the last Supra was somewhat legendary in terms of tuneable power but also reliability, I think using a BMW motor is going to cause them some problems.
glazbagun said:
They called it the Supra. Can you imagine the roasting if, when Jaguar finally released the F-Type, it was a platform share with Mercedes looking like an SLK with a bodykit? Or Porsche revealed the next 911 would be based on a Lotus?
If they'd called it the GT-99 or something, I think people would be more objective.
SLK/SLC is a saloon-based chassis, at least the Z4 is a dedicated sports car chassis. Would a Camry/Lexus IS/GS-based chassis be better? Perhaps if Porsche used a Lotus chassis, it wouldn't be so damn heavy and might handle a bit sharper? I genuinely don't know but do the modern Aston Martins share anything with the AMG Mercedes other than engines, switchgear and infotainment?If they'd called it the GT-99 or something, I think people would be more objective.
Are BMW fans getting irate somewhere because the new Z4 shares some bits with a Toyota?
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 16th May 22:15
rallycross said:
The 335i turbo's were a problem for BMW with rattling waste gates due to a simple flaw in the design (made my Mitsubishi apparently not sure why BMW would use them).
Think Mitsubishi turbos are made by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, which is a totally different company to Mitsubishi Motors.I quite like this car myself! I hope it is a bit of a sales success so there’s plenty in the 2nd hand market when it’s a little more my price range..
I hope they have really considered the mod side of owning this car, what you can and can’t do before warranties are threatened would be quite important imo. I can’t think of a recent new car that is so overtly designed/priced to be modified.
I don’t much about these things (obviously) but does anyone know how much leeway you are given wrt modifying when you pcp/pch too? I’m guessing if it’s reversible it wouldnt affect their future values? Gonna get complicated!
I hope they have really considered the mod side of owning this car, what you can and can’t do before warranties are threatened would be quite important imo. I can’t think of a recent new car that is so overtly designed/priced to be modified.
I don’t much about these things (obviously) but does anyone know how much leeway you are given wrt modifying when you pcp/pch too? I’m guessing if it’s reversible it wouldnt affect their future values? Gonna get complicated!
SidewaysSi said:
Was the Mk4 actually any good? I can't remember it getting great reviews at the time.
It's legend has grown over time. It wasn't well received at the start because it was heavy, not that great looking, and came mostly saddled with the NA 6.The TT 6 was very expensive too. Sales definitely weren't great outside Japan.
Nobody is saying this is not a nice little car, but by naming it 'Supra' the ethos being the best Japan has to offer which would roast Porsche's and Ferraris at a fraction of the price they have misled and dashed the hopes of those expecting Toyota to be faithful to the spirit of the original especially as the Lexus LFA was laughably expensive and the real hope was we were going to get a scaled down updated LFA. By using the name Supra and coming up with this average to fun little thing is tantamount to fraudulent mis representation and blatant riding on the reputation of a legend especially as the whole point of the Supra was that is better than anything German. Not a mis shapen rip off of one. The BMW is far better looking and can continue as a slightly overpriced fun german coupe and nobody expects anything different. However. Toyota, shame on you. Its all down to the next Skyline, God forbid they collaborate with Audi for the next TT. You see the scale of the problem. Collaboration with Mercedes AMG or Brabus at less money.. maybe.
SidewaysSi said:
Was the Mk4 actually any good? I can't remember it getting great reviews at the time.
Good yes. But I don't recall much hype around it when it was new. In many ways it was an expensive oddity compared to an RX-7 or 300ZX.Plus it was heavy, especially in 1993.
I think the hype was much much later. There is no denying the Fast and the Furious played a part in this too, but that was 2001, after the car ended production and almost a decade after the cars launch.
Theo-v9obh said:
I was really looking forwards to this. I mean just look at the Lexus LFA from 15 year ago. Now there is a real collaboration. A Yamaha engine!! Should not be too difficult to use some of that DNA and up to date technology for such a massive revered car company and give us something really exciting and good value that would send Caymans and TT RS s scuttling away in embarrassment and keep the Carreras and R8s right on their toes. My heart sank as soon as I heard BMW was involved. The original Supra was a phenomenon and beat most supercars round the track and was usable every day. It was a toss up between that and the R33 Skyline but the Supra was officially imported at the time whereas the Skyline was not.
It looked unique, went like almost nothing else. A motoring journalist phenomenon.
Now we get what literally looks like a genetic abnormality, misshapen, almost like an early Marcos and inside its german. There is no amazing cutting edge Japanese technology. People did not mind relatively bland interiors - eg Skyline- as long you beat everything in site.
Even the power. The same level as a 20 year old Audi S4 V8. Nothing ground breaking there then. How about good value which is something else the original Supra excelled in? Nope.
In short there is nothing to recommend this bd child. Its an ugly Z5.
What Toyota are doing and SHAME ON THEM, is marketing this lazy clone on the fading wake of a legend. Why not just be honest and say this is a BMW knock off for less money to make it palatable. Whoops its not for less money.
Well they won't be getting any of mine. Whoever was responsible for this needs to be sent to the Himalayas to meditate on the error of their ways the betrayal of countless doting fans who have been slapped in the face. Or just sacked.
I hear what you are saying, but have you actually validated any of your comments with fact or reality?It looked unique, went like almost nothing else. A motoring journalist phenomenon.
Now we get what literally looks like a genetic abnormality, misshapen, almost like an early Marcos and inside its german. There is no amazing cutting edge Japanese technology. People did not mind relatively bland interiors - eg Skyline- as long you beat everything in site.
Even the power. The same level as a 20 year old Audi S4 V8. Nothing ground breaking there then. How about good value which is something else the original Supra excelled in? Nope.
In short there is nothing to recommend this b
d child. Its an ugly Z5.What Toyota are doing and SHAME ON THEM, is marketing this lazy clone on the fading wake of a legend. Why not just be honest and say this is a BMW knock off for less money to make it palatable. Whoops its not for less money.
Well they won't be getting any of mine. Whoever was responsible for this needs to be sent to the Himalayas to meditate on the error of their ways the betrayal of countless doting fans who have been slapped in the face. Or just sacked.
e.g.
Theo-v9obh said:
There is no amazing cutting edge Japanese technology
What cutting edge technology did the MK IV have? The bi-turbo engine was interesting, but obviously missing on the non turbo variant.Theo-v9obh said:
Even the power. The same level as a 20 year old Audi S4 V8.
What does this matter? The performance is there and faster than the MK IV.And lets not forget the MK IV made less Horse Power than a 20 year older (1973) Trans Am. So maybe the MK IV was a bit pants on this basis????
I wonder, did you ever like the Mitsubishi 3000GT? Maybe they should never have made that, as it was co-developed and sold as Dodge Stealth also.
NEWS FLASH: car makers do indeed share platforms, engines and development costs. Really not sure why you are getting your knickers in so much of a twist over it.
white_goodman said:
Much negativity on here re the new Supra but in reality, it seems fairly well pitched to me and I think with the new car market being dominated by SUVs/crossovers, people like us should celebrate the revival of 50k sports cars. Sure, they could have gone down a similar route to the GTR. Unique platform, bespoke engine, more power, 2+2 and possibly AWD but that would no doubt be a 100k car in today's market and who would buy a 100k Toyota? Honda did this with the NSX (incidentally a car that was engineered and built in the USA) and to be fair the original NSX was always more expensive than the Supra and its rivals and I hear it's a very impressive car but I don't see any on the road and fans of the original may be upset by the turbocharging and AWD. It's a great car but completely irrelevant when you can get a Porsche/Aston/R8 for similar money or a GTR with similar performance for considerably less.
I think the NSX is more of a Halo model for the brand, rather than something designed to be a commercial success in sales alone.Looks like in Europe Honda only sold 126 in 2017 and 45 in 2018.
USA sales a bit stouter, 571 in 2017 and 170 in 2018.
But still very low volume. I suspect Toyota will be wanting to sell many magnitudes more Supra's.
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