RE: Tom Hartley: PH Meets

RE: Tom Hartley: PH Meets

Author
Discussion

Drclarke

862 posts

114 months

Thursday 16th May
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I would rather buy a second hand hammer from Peter Sutcliffe than a used car from any of that family.

That report on their bullying and threatening tactics towards that old lady is just despicable.


Olivera

3,337 posts

180 months

Thursday 16th May
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Could they get some of the 24 strong gardening team to sort out the shabby looking turf in the backdrop?


howardhughes

304 posts

145 months

Thursday 16th May
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Ok so I'm not a big fan of the lake photos, but does it warrant negative, small minded comments on his business??
Seriously get a life.

V12GT

26 posts

31 months

Thursday 16th May
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The valuation has been making me smile, so I did a bit of digging in publicly available information on Companies House. 20 minutes of searching came up with this:

Tom Hartley (Senior) is the Director of 7 companies, of which there seem to be two branches - one is the cabins business, the other the cars business.
The cars business has two parts - it looks like one owns the property and made about £1m profit last year (no sales available). The other (Tom Hartley Cars Limited) made £650k profit on about £27m sales in the year to Oct 2017, as mentioned above.

Interestingly, there seems to have been a change in ownership recently - Carl Hartley, who used to own 50% of the cars business and was a shareholder in the cabins business, transferred his shareholding in one of the cabins businesses on 20 Feb to a Stephanie Hartley (who might be a sister, given the date of birth), and on 27 Feb the cars shareholding to his father. He remains a director in the cars business.

Tom Hartley Jnr, who used to be in partnership with his dad, seems to be much more successful. His company, Tom Hartley Jnr Limited, focuses on selling classic cars from virtually the same location, made £6m profit on £104m sales in the year to April 2018 and got a Queen's Export Award too. He's the sole shareholder.

I'm not great on valuations in the car sales business, but it seems that you'd do very well to get more than 10x profit - so on that basis, TH Snr's car business might be worth £6-10m, depending on the property valuations, but Jr's might be worth more like £50-60m? As someone else pointed out above, it's all about the contacts, so you might not be willing to pay that much.

But I don't make a living peddling supercars, so what do I know?

markcoznottz

4,960 posts

165 months

Thursday 16th May
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Fiisch said:
I read the article and the section about the lake and thought: "what a brilliant idea."

Then I read the comments. Not sure what this says about me. frown

Good luck to them - I'd trade places with them in an instant. Sadly, I think I lack the money and the balls to go it alone...
I don't think you would, like someone said, they are wedded to the business. That's the problem with a family business, you can't ever stop or walk away. The old man did a lot of very intrusive marketing not tc in the early 90's using his sons, not everyone could live with that.
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Drclarke

862 posts

114 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
howardhughes said:
Ok so I'm not a big fan of the lake photos, but does it warrant negative, small minded comments on his business??
Seriously get a life.
Really? Have you actually read the report?



Buster73

3,223 posts

94 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
V12GT said:
The valuation has been making me smile, so I did a bit of digging in publicly available information on Companies House. 20 minutes of searching came up with this:

Tom Hartley (Senior) is the Director of 7 companies, of which there seem to be two branches - one is the cabins business, the other the cars business.
The cars business has two parts - it looks like one owns the property and made about £1m profit last year (no sales available). The other (Tom Hartley Cars Limited) made £650k profit on about £27m sales in the year to Oct 2017, as mentioned above.

Interestingly, there seems to have been a change in ownership recently - Carl Hartley, who used to own 50% of the cars business and was a shareholder in the cabins business, transferred his shareholding in one of the cabins businesses on 20 Feb to a Stephanie Hartley (who might be a sister, given the date of birth), and on 27 Feb the cars shareholding to his father. He remains a director in the cars business.

Tom Hartley Jnr, who used to be in partnership with his dad, seems to be much more successful. His company, Tom Hartley Jnr Limited, focuses on selling classic cars from virtually the same location, made £6m profit on £104m sales in the year to April 2018 and got a Queen's Export Award too. He's the sole shareholder.

I'm not great on valuations in the car sales business, but it seems that you'd do very well to get more than 10x profit - so on that basis, TH Snr's car business might be worth £6-10m, depending on the property valuations, but Jr's might be worth more like £50-60m? As someone else pointed out above, it's all about the contacts, so you might not be willing to pay that much.

But I don't make a living peddling supercars, so what do I know?
Back to the £250m valuation on the TH brand , divide £650k into £250m that’s nearly 400 years profit , I’d be selling tomorrow morning rather than fannying on selling cars for a living...






If it was true.

Jon_S_Rally

313 posts

29 months

Thursday 16th May
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Wow, there's no bitterness on here is there? laugh

While I am not into the article (seems a bit advertorial), I can't see why people are getting so wound up about the company. They're obviously doing something they enjoy and making money along the way, so good luck to them. Who are the losers, the guys with a lake and a showroom full of exotica, or the blokes sitting on a forum slating them? I think the answer to that is pretty obvious laugh

deltashad

6,712 posts

138 months

Thursday 16th May
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Rawwr said:
bolide said:
Interesting piece in Parliamentary Business (by some chap called David Cameron) about mobile home residents rights & lack thereof, involving a site owned by a Mr Hartley

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmh...
Gosh, he's a bit of a scummer, isn't he?
I read the parliament publication prior to the pistonheads OP. Well, that was quite distasteful. Obviously a very greedy and manipulative individual. Some nice cars though, the BB and 918 are just sublime. Don't think there's much chance of him drowning in the lake.

Big Robbo

89 posts

87 months

Thursday 16th May
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J4CKO said:
A years subscription to the Jelly of the Month club !
Jammy sod

SL22

98 posts

66 months

Thursday 16th May
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LARK F1 GTR said:
The TH JNR website looks much nicer, there's still a lake.. but the cars are not parked in it. That's just silly and looks stupid laugh The pictures are better on there too.
Slight aside, but I was doing a bit of orienteering in the area where they are this week (it’s National Forest land around there) and so in taking one of the routes we went straight through TH Jnrs ‘house’, as between his lake and the house building is a public right of way. At the end of the drive is the usual massive electric gets, but a wide path beside it. It’s just so weird to have such a big house with lake, but literally open to anyone and everyone to walk through!

Paracetamol

4,032 posts

185 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
These guys shafted me over a Purchase.. accepted an offer I made on a car and then sold it to someone else for a few hundred pound more.

I have bought many cars since and some big ones for a collection...but not from these guys.

And not sending your kids to school so they can sell cars.. that would probably bring social services round in this day and age

robj4

154 posts

98 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
deltashad said:
Rawwr said:
bolide said:
Interesting piece in Parliamentary Business (by some chap called David Cameron) about mobile home residents rights & lack thereof, involving a site owned by a Mr Hartley

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmh...
Gosh, he's a bit of a scummer, isn't he?
I read the parliament publication prior to the pistonheads OP. Well, that was quite distasteful. Obviously a very greedy and manipulative individual. Some nice cars though, the BB and 918 are just sublime. Don't think there's much chance of him drowning in the lake.
Currently living a couple of miles from this place, couldn't for the life of me understand why this avalon of car exotica was nestled in a trailer park with the new showroom seeming to form part of the entrance to the site. Why would anyone leave so many millions of pounds of stock there. Especially With at least three pubs within walking distance.

-Albeit the park does look a nicer one of the species, where one day due to severe manmathsitus, I'll probably be grateful to end up.

Anyway, now I know.

1606ian

86 posts

147 months

Thursday 16th May
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Bought my first Boxster from Tom Hartley in 1999 - got a reasonable deal but had to work for it. He's moved a bit upmarket since then.

The lake photos always look a bit weird to me.

Drclarke

862 posts

114 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
robj4 said:
Currently living a couple of miles from this place, couldn't for the life of me understand why this avalon of car exotica was nestled in a trailer park
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dale_Farm

Drclarke

862 posts

114 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
SL22 said:
Slight aside, but I was doing a bit of orienteering in the area where they are this week (it’s National Forest land around there) and so in taking one of the routes we went straight through TH Jnrs ‘house’, as between his lake and the house building is a public right of way. At the end of the drive is the usual massive electric gets, but a wide path beside it. It’s just so weird to have such a big house with lake, but literally open to anyone and everyone to walk through!
Brilliant! I wonder if the people he is selling cars for know that they have people meandering through past them!?

philip-cj1xh

1 posts

Thursday 16th May
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About 8 years ago I bought a Range Rover 4.4 vogue from Tom Hartley and dealt with Carl.
He couldn't have been more helpful and spent a fair amount of time with myself and my dad chatting about cars and life in general.
We had a set of earphones missing in the back of the car and true to his word he sent me some through the post. Great to deal with and just like our family run company they realise it's not just about the sale.

Europa1

7,882 posts

129 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Paracetamol said:
And not sending your kids to school so they can sell cars.. that would probably bring social services round in this day and age
I recall an Autocar article from many years ago about Tom Hartley attending the Geneva show, with Carl (I think, as opposed to Tom Jr) aged about 14 and thinking "shouldn't he be in school?". He was wearing the most awful suit.

Christ, I was a giffer before my time...

Sa Calobra

28,356 posts

152 months

Thursday 16th May
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This is one of the infomercials; advertorial. I thought it was a forum.

HoHoHo

13,674 posts

191 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
philip-cj1xh said:
About 8 years ago I bought a Range Rover 4.4 vogue from Tom Hartley and dealt with Carl.
He couldn't have been more helpful and spent a fair amount of time with myself and my dad chatting about cars and life in general.
We had a set of earphones missing in the back of the car and true to his word he sent me some through the post. Great to deal with and just like our family run company they realise it's not just about the sale.
So after PDI’ing an expensive car they didn’t notice a set of headphones were missing.....

Do you have one or two in the back.....not a difficult question surely wink