Are you an automatic transmission convert?
Discussion
Not for me - manual is my preference. It's slower and less advanced than these modern auto boxes but I like it that way. Much like my bicycle I like rim brakes over disc and cable over electronic:gears: simiplisity makes me feel more at one with the machine.
I had a DSG box for a while but hated the way it always hunted for the most efficient gear. I became lazy and left it in drive and hated it even more. Maybe if I changed the way i drove it and used the paddles more it would have been better but it kind of defeated the point of an auto and if I wanted manual control why not just drive a manual for the full experience.
I do get it for city driving though. Maybe if I injured my clutch leg I'd be converted.
I had a DSG box for a while but hated the way it always hunted for the most efficient gear. I became lazy and left it in drive and hated it even more. Maybe if I changed the way i drove it and used the paddles more it would have been better but it kind of defeated the point of an auto and if I wanted manual control why not just drive a manual for the full experience.
I do get it for city driving though. Maybe if I injured my clutch leg I'd be converted.
WJNB said:
As per my observation under the 50K sports car topic .....
I fail to understand the male pre-occupation with playing with a knob in order to drive. Something related to insecurity perhaps or a fear of not being masterly & in control?
Grown-ups in their F1 racing cars have auto boxes do they not? Or don't they know as much about driving as some Phers?
There is no way an auto box underperforms what the human hand can do.
In any case the manual gearbox is as old as the car itself so how uncool is that?
Lol the fact you even posted this rather makes you sound the insecure one I fail to understand the male pre-occupation with playing with a knob in order to drive. Something related to insecurity perhaps or a fear of not being masterly & in control?
Grown-ups in their F1 racing cars have auto boxes do they not? Or don't they know as much about driving as some Phers?
There is no way an auto box underperforms what the human hand can do.
In any case the manual gearbox is as old as the car itself so how uncool is that?
Car-Matt said:
cerb4.5lee said:
300 what you describe there certainly mirrors how I felt about it. 
Because the gruntier engine has been geared to take advantage of its lower grunt and thicker curves :-)I don’t know the final drive for the BMW. But I bet it isn’t a million miles different.
But take a real world example. Dual carriage approaching a round about. It’s pretty clear. You can see, so you slow and roll on to the throttle as you go across the round about and out the other side. Not racing, not tagging it. Just normal driving without going to slow or quick.
A grunty auto will probably keep the engine revs around 2000-3000rpm depending on the exact gear and speed you are doing.
Now a smaller engine such as the BMW 3.0 litre NA might well have shorter gearing. But driven the same way it might decide to be a gear higher and still use the torque it has and end up say 2500-3500rpm instead. What it won’t be doing is using the 5000-7000rpm range unless you really make it do so.
Gearing is great. They are torque multipliers. Torque converters play a big roll too in how an engine feels and responds with an auto box. But gearing cannot cover all ills and bases. Else ever car would be a 1.0 litre turbo with just lots and lots of gears.
My former work Sprinter was an auto and I have to admit, it very much suited that application. All of my personal cars have been manual, but with an eye on a C63 in the future, it's something that I'm warming to. With a flappy paddle manual override it's no different to the steering wheel for my Playstation, so I'm definitely not a manual uber alles bore these days.
Rowing your own with a clutch is an enjoyable part of the hobby, however, and it would be a shame to lose them altogether. It's not about lap times and outright pace, the tactility is its own reward.
Rowing your own with a clutch is an enjoyable part of the hobby, however, and it would be a shame to lose them altogether. It's not about lap times and outright pace, the tactility is its own reward.
king noticed, cheers cerb4.5lee said:
The problem with the 330i though is that there isn't much torque to convert...and that is where the problem lies!! 
How much torque do you need though - my allegedly "torque-lacking" manual E90 330i reportedly does 0-100 km/h in 6.3 seconds! Which is quicker than the Jaguar. 
But then again my manual Z4 Coupe with the same engine reportedly does 0-100km/h in 5.7 seconds - if they have no torque I really don't care! Just give it some revs, after all the red-line is at 7,000 rpm.
And no Rover V8 will get to that more than once without a rebuild!
And who cares if the V8 works better with an auto box - I've spent my life avoiding those power-sapping lazy person devices whenever possible - hateful things!
I even avoided it with my P6B 3500S. And out of curiosity I was just wondering how many Rover V8s delivered 300 bhp/ton in any application?
Edited by Mr Tidy on Wednesday 22 May 02:29
Edited by Mr Tidy on Wednesday 22 May 02:34
Edited by Mr Tidy on Wednesday 22 May 02:36
Edited by Mr Tidy on Wednesday 22 May 03:18
Edited by Mr Tidy on Wednesday 22 May 03:37
Mr Tidy said:
How much torque do you need though - my allegedly "torque-lacking" manual E90 330i reportedly does 0-100 km/h in 6.3 seconds! Which is quicker than the Jaguar.
But then again my manual Z4 Coupe with the same engine reportedly does 0-100km/h in 5.7 seconds - if they have no torque I really don't care! Just give it some revs, after all the red-line is at 7,000 rpm.
And no Rover V8 will get to that more than once without a rebuild!
And who cares if the V8 works better with an auto box - I've spent my life avoiding those power-sapping lazy person devices whenever possible - hateful things! I even avoided it with my P6B 3500S.
And out of curiosity I was just wondering how many Rover V8s delivered 300 bhp/ton in any application?
Wide open throttle performance is somewhat different to general driveability.But then again my manual Z4 Coupe with the same engine reportedly does 0-100km/h in 5.7 seconds - if they have no torque I really don't care! Just give it some revs, after all the red-line is at 7,000 rpm.
And no Rover V8 will get to that more than once without a rebuild!
And who cares if the V8 works better with an auto box - I've spent my life avoiding those power-sapping lazy person devices whenever possible - hateful things!
I even avoided it with my P6B 3500S. And out of curiosity I was just wondering how many Rover V8s delivered 300 bhp/ton in any application?
And the discussion was about automatic transmission cars and feeling sluggish. Again this isn't necessarily wide open throttle.
I only cited the RV8 as I happened to have a power plot vs an engine with a very different power curve. The same would be true for other engines.
I've driven many automatics, mostly it has to be said in America where you can't *get* a manual hire car without a lot of effort and I've always been "nope, manual only for me".
They were all however fairly non-sporty and slow models. This time I hired a Mustang, only the 2.3T but with the latest, greatest 10 speed auto, complete with flappy paddles ... and the verdict is..."nope, manual only for me".
They were all however fairly non-sporty and slow models. This time I hired a Mustang, only the 2.3T but with the latest, greatest 10 speed auto, complete with flappy paddles ... and the verdict is..."nope, manual only for me".
I’ve had 3 autos in a row now. I would have another manual but only if the car didn’t come with an auto. My wife has a manual Cupra which I drive fairly regularly and whilst it great to rag up to the shops when I drove back from town the other day in stop start traffic I was longing for an auto.
My own cars are manual, jcw mini and a Griff, but the wife has a Qashqai 1.2 auto, cvt gearbox, but labeled xtronic, basicly has false gear changes built in, drives OK in and around town, and on a longer journey to Cornwall I find it relaxing and quite enjoy it, have a new Q on order with a revised 1.3 engine and DCT gearbox, demo was much improved over the current car, looking forward to that car too.
So yea i think an auto is not a bad thing to have..... would I have just that? Not sure, but wouldn't discount that option in my future..
So yea i think an auto is not a bad thing to have..... would I have just that? Not sure, but wouldn't discount that option in my future..
Mr Tidy said:
Well I've only ever "suffered" autos when a manual wasn't really an option - as in MK2 Granada 2.8 Ghia, Scorpio 2.8i, Mercedes W123 280e, Mercedes W202 C280 Sport.
But they were all cr*p!
So now I just have RWD manual straight 6 petrols.
That was a long time ago. Have you tried the Mercedes 10G-Tronic and Bmw ZF gearboxes? You won’t miss auto then (in a normal family car)But they were all cr*p!
So now I just have RWD manual straight 6 petrols.
Outside of stop start, the auto box MUST have the option to manuallychange down when approaching roundabouts at speed.
I’ve had the misfortune to drive some of the mid range Mercs when paddles were only an option of the top ranges and you would often corner in a less appropriate gear.
I’ve had the misfortune to drive some of the mid range Mercs when paddles were only an option of the top ranges and you would often corner in a less appropriate gear.
I think I’m converted to autos now. For daily driving it’s just easier plus the ZF8 does a better job than I can. It suits the B58 in my M140 too...the manual option that used to be offered was horrible like most BMW boxes are.
I’m not so keen on the DSG box because it doesn’t feel like a traditional auto for boring stuff like manoeuvring.
I’m not so keen on the DSG box because it doesn’t feel like a traditional auto for boring stuff like manoeuvring.
I had a manual civic. My wife has been driving an automatic BMW for years and years. On longer journets when we would use the BMW, i found it more relaxing to drive.
When I wanted a new car, I bvought an automatic.
Occasionally I wish I had the option to have a manual car, I did enjoy shifting gears when "in the mood", but 99% of the time I just want to get to where I'm going with little fuss.
I might have a manual car again one day, but only as a second car for the weekends.
When I wanted a new car, I bvought an automatic.
Occasionally I wish I had the option to have a manual car, I did enjoy shifting gears when "in the mood", but 99% of the time I just want to get to where I'm going with little fuss.
I might have a manual car again one day, but only as a second car for the weekends.
I've been driving manuals for about 37 years now, from small engined hatchbacks when I was younger to larger engined semi performance cars, all petrol.
Having bought an automatic Audi A6 Competetion diesel with 326bhp and 650nm two months ago I am now completely converted, it has flappy paddles but I don't even bother using them. Absolute joy to drive and it doesn't even sound like a diesel, which is a massive plus.
Having bought an automatic Audi A6 Competetion diesel with 326bhp and 650nm two months ago I am now completely converted, it has flappy paddles but I don't even bother using them. Absolute joy to drive and it doesn't even sound like a diesel, which is a massive plus.
Would never buy a manual car for daily duties again. Have driven a number of Auto/DSG equipped cars over the past 5-10 years (BMW ZF/Mercedes 7G/Audi DSG) and they just make life so much easier around town etc. I don't know why anyone wouldn't want one for that kind of usage.
I'd happily take a good manual for a weekend car though, the problem being that even in more sporty cars a lot of manual gearboxes aren't all that great.
I'd happily take a good manual for a weekend car though, the problem being that even in more sporty cars a lot of manual gearboxes aren't all that great.
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