Are you an automatic transmission convert?
Discussion
Hoofy said:
Uh oh. I think I've crossed the threshold into permanently preferring automatics.
This weekend I had a go in a light sporty hatchback over some empty country roads at night. I had no problems with stirring the gear stick including smooth gearshifts up and down but at the back of my mind, I felt like I'd rather it had an auto box - something like Mercedes' 7 speed system as that had no problems downshifting when required. And if I'm honest, even my 4 speed box is preferable to a manual.
It is thanks to people like you that we don't get things like the new Supra and Alpine A110 offered with a manual gearbox! This weekend I had a go in a light sporty hatchback over some empty country roads at night. I had no problems with stirring the gear stick including smooth gearshifts up and down but at the back of my mind, I felt like I'd rather it had an auto box - something like Mercedes' 7 speed system as that had no problems downshifting when required. And if I'm honest, even my 4 speed box is preferable to a manual.
SidewaysSi said:
I love autos with paddles as I feel like a F1 driver. I watch my hero Hamilton then go for a drive and flick the paddles just like him. I am a brilliant driver and know everything about cars though which most people on here don't.
If auto is best for F1 than it has to be the best solution.
F1 doesn't use automatic gearboxes. They're semi-automatics (ie an automated manual box) and still have a manual clutch for pulling off etc. They are as different to your road car automatic gearbox as the rest of an F1 car is! If auto is best for F1 than it has to be the best solution.
There is no doubt that such gearboxes are quicker to change than a manual gearbox but while shaving 0.15s off a gearchange makes all the difference in F1 it's in no way relevant for the road and the reality is that half the time the *shift* time is irreverent anyway...especially on your way down to the shops.
kiseca said:
The XE I ran would to that from time to time. Could be overruled by using the paddles to make sure the car was ready in 2nd (1st was a waste of time unless I was pulling away up the side of a building) whenever approaching a roundabout. If I didn't do that, and wanted to briskly pull away into traffic, from time to time the car would be very unresponsive and then, when I'm desperately burying the throttle to get going, shift down what felt like half a dozen gears and bolt off.
That's what bothers me about driving my Father-in-Law's A6 estate, when pulling right out of a junction I tend to creep forward then accelerate hard, but with the auto I think the gearbox puts it into 2nd straight away, so when I put my foot down nothing happens, I put my foot down further, nothing happens, then it launches (it's a quattro) down the road like I'm some kind of hooligan.FunkyNige said:
That's what bothers me about driving my Father-in-Law's A6 estate, when pulling right out of a junction I tend to creep forward then accelerate hard, but with the auto I think the gearbox puts it into 2nd straight away, so when I put my foot down nothing happens, I put my foot down further, nothing happens, then it launches (it's a quattro) down the road like I'm some kind of hooligan.
Auto boxes also learn the style of the driver and changes etc so as it’s your old mans it’s possibly being driven very differently to you and on different roadsI like to run mins in DS when coming up to junctions so I don’t have to use the paddles and also I want to potentially use all the revs and the shortest gear
Autos are so much safer in congestion two hands on the wheel at all times
If your grabbing a swig of drink your not going to be running out of revs in handing in 1st or whatever instead it progresses smoothly.
Sticks. said:
djc206 said:
V10 SPM said:
The one thing that really lets my car down is the response to pressing the accelerator pedal. The auto transmission seems very slow to react and at times feels dangerous (e.g. when pulling out of junctions). It is my first auto and I'm not convinced at the moment.
I’ve not had that from any of my autos. Older autos could be quite unresponsive but you shouldn’t get it from a newer car.Hol said:
Outside of stop start, the auto box MUST have the option to manuallychange down when approaching roundabouts at speed.
I’ve had the misfortune to drive some of the mid range Mercs when paddles were only an option of the top ranges and you would often corner in a less appropriate gear.
I have an old E320 and my other half a CLS350, both diesels and don't find this to be too much of an issue thankfully. Can't comment on the petrol equivalent. My CLS63 does have paddles which are preferable either way. I’ve had the misfortune to drive some of the mid range Mercs when paddles were only an option of the top ranges and you would often corner in a less appropriate gear.
I recently hired a Seat with a DSG gearbox and as an auto I found it frustrating. The gear changes were quick and when using the paddles faster than a manual no doubt. As an automatic though, it did my head in. Always wanting to be in 6th gear meant zero engine braking so constantly having to step in to change down gears, which slightly defeated the point being an automatic.
V10 SPM said:
Sticks. said:
djc206 said:
V10 SPM said:
The one thing that really lets my car down is the response to pressing the accelerator pedal. The auto transmission seems very slow to react and at times feels dangerous (e.g. when pulling out of junctions). It is my first auto and I'm not convinced at the moment.
I’ve not had that from any of my autos. Older autos could be quite unresponsive but you shouldn’t get it from a newer car.It's only a minor irritation as at all other times it does what I want.
Today I've been doing NW London => Farnborough => Windsor => NW London. North Circular/A4/M4/M25/M3 and lots of stop start. Suits an auto.
cerb4.5lee said:
Hoofy said:
Uh oh. I think I've crossed the threshold into permanently preferring automatics.
This weekend I had a go in a light sporty hatchback over some empty country roads at night. I had no problems with stirring the gear stick including smooth gearshifts up and down but at the back of my mind, I felt like I'd rather it had an auto box - something like Mercedes' 7 speed system as that had no problems downshifting when required. And if I'm honest, even my 4 speed box is preferable to a manual.
It is thanks to people like you that we don't get things like the new Supra and Alpine A110 offered with a manual gearbox! This weekend I had a go in a light sporty hatchback over some empty country roads at night. I had no problems with stirring the gear stick including smooth gearshifts up and down but at the back of my mind, I felt like I'd rather it had an auto box - something like Mercedes' 7 speed system as that had no problems downshifting when required. And if I'm honest, even my 4 speed box is preferable to a manual.
Pica-Pica said:
Maxym said:
talksthetorque said:
Pommy said:
Maxym said:
All you who love autos in traffic, I suppose it’s so you can leave your foot on the brake when stopped. Just lazy and bad practice.
Has your TV got a remote control? Lazy b
d.300bhp/ton said:
Pica-Pica said:
Maxym said:
talksthetorque said:
Pommy said:
Maxym said:
All you who love autos in traffic, I suppose it’s so you can leave your foot on the brake when stopped. Just lazy and bad practice.
Has your TV got a remote control? Lazy bd.Hoofy said:
I felt like I'd rather it had an auto box - something like Mercedes' 7 speed system as that had no problems downshifting when required.
If that is the same 7 speed auto that is in the new A-Class, then I found some issues with it.For 'normal' driving and just wanting to blip the throttle to pull past something, ideal on a multi lane dual carriage way. The box very well. Especially in the sportiest mode. Flex the big toe and it would work some magic and feel uber responsive and quick.
My issue was when you actually tried enjoying the car and wanted to use wide open throttle or at least a heavy throttle input. The box was just completely dimwhitted and a total slug to pick a gear. i.e. floor it at 60mph and wait wait wait wait and it'd drop who knows how many gears and then bounce of the red line.
The car went ok, but the delay from flooring it, to the car actually doing anything was immense and frankly dreadful as a driving experience. Although I've found that the ZF8 speed and ZF6 speed auto's do exactly the same thing.
A gentle blip and part movement on the throttle and the box reacted quickly, only dropping 1 or maybe two gears. No idea on why the polarity of response times. But for a "drivers" car, the gearbox completely ruined the experience. For a hooligan in traffic I'm sure it would work very well however.
Another issue I had was the manual modes. It was never really manual. At best you were allowed an opinion on what gear you wanted, but you have no certainty if the gearbox would respond accordingly or it might even do something else.
Basically in manual mode it would still up and down shift automatically
and if you didn't make a manual gearchange for a bit would seem to revert back to full auto mode. It was very annoying and largely completely unusable unless it was for a single downshift.Also with 7 gears, the paddles only give you limited control, as you can't quickly or easily drop 3 gears. As an it has a tendency to auto shift back up, it makes it hard work to drive it in a sporty manner with manual control.
300bhp/ton said:
Hoofy said:
I felt like I'd rather it had an auto box - something like Mercedes' 7 speed system as that had no problems downshifting when required.
If that is the same 7 speed auto that is in the new A-Class, then I found some issues with it.For 'normal' driving and just wanting to blip the throttle to pull past something, ideal on a multi lane dual carriage way. The box very well. Especially in the sportiest mode. Flex the big toe and it would work some magic and feel uber responsive and quick.
My issue was when you actually tried enjoying the car and wanted to use wide open throttle or at least a heavy throttle input. The box was just completely dimwhitted and a total slug to pick a gear. i.e. floor it at 60mph and wait wait wait wait and it'd drop who knows how many gears and then bounce of the red line.
The car went ok, but the delay from flooring it, to the car actually doing anything was immense and frankly dreadful as a driving experience. Although I've found that the ZF8 speed and ZF6 speed auto's do exactly the same thing.
A gentle blip and part movement on the throttle and the box reacted quickly, only dropping 1 or maybe two gears. No idea on why the polarity of response times. But for a "drivers" car, the gearbox completely ruined the experience. For a hooligan in traffic I'm sure it would work very well however.
Another issue I had was the manual modes. It was never really manual. At best you were allowed an opinion on what gear you wanted, but you have no certainty if the gearbox would respond accordingly or it might even do something else.
Basically in manual mode it would still up and down shift automatically
and if you didn't make a manual gearchange for a bit would seem to revert back to full auto mode. It was very annoying and largely completely unusable unless it was for a single downshift.Also with 7 gears, the paddles only give you limited control, as you can't quickly or easily drop 3 gears. As an it has a tendency to auto shift back up, it makes it hard work to drive it in a sporty manner with manual control.
I’d say for mundane or commuting driving auto is the Daddy.
Also for family trips no sane Daddy is going to be hooning.
So for the extremely rare blast a stick shift these days isn’t really needed.
Auto now offers better economy
Auto ensures the car hasn’t been granny shifted or “the money shift”
Auto ensures the clutch isn’t hammered
It’s faster too
Before autos were
Slow
Slow changing gear
Much worse on economy
Hunting for gears
Fewer gears than stick 3 or 3 plus over drive or 4 or if your were really lucky 5 but now it’s 7/8/9 gears with modes allowing for how you want to drive
Also for family trips no sane Daddy is going to be hooning.
So for the extremely rare blast a stick shift these days isn’t really needed.
Auto now offers better economy
Auto ensures the car hasn’t been granny shifted or “the money shift”
Auto ensures the clutch isn’t hammered
It’s faster too
Before autos were
Slow
Slow changing gear
Much worse on economy
Hunting for gears
Fewer gears than stick 3 or 3 plus over drive or 4 or if your were really lucky 5 but now it’s 7/8/9 gears with modes allowing for how you want to drive
For the trips in cars I don't care about, going someplace I'm not bothered via roads that I hate in traffic put there to punish me - auto is brilliant and the super duper, no doubt about it, lovely, look-at-me-this-is-just-like-F1-I'm-a-commuting-Ayrton-Senna option.
In every other circumstance, no. No, I'm not converted at all. I own an automatic, and it's the one car I have that I'd shoot if a hijacker made me do it.
In every other circumstance, no. No, I'm not converted at all. I own an automatic, and it's the one car I have that I'd shoot if a hijacker made me do it.
Fastdruid said:
SidewaysSi said:
I love autos with paddles as I feel like a F1 driver. I watch my hero Hamilton then go for a drive and flick the paddles just like him. I am a brilliant driver and know everything about cars though which most people on here don't.
If auto is best for F1 than it has to be the best solution.
F1 doesn't use automatic gearboxes. They're semi-automatics (ie an automated manual box) and still have a manual clutch for pulling off etc. They are as different to your road car automatic gearbox as the rest of an F1 car is! If auto is best for F1 than it has to be the best solution.
There is no doubt that such gearboxes are quicker to change than a manual gearbox but while shaving 0.15s off a gearchange makes all the difference in F1 it's in no way relevant for the road and the reality is that half the time the *shift* time is irreverent anyway...especially on your way down to the shops.
Blah, blah re F1. They have paddles and so do I so I feel like a F1 driver. God I love F1.
Today I have driven a Sprinter van from Worcs to Edinburgh. It was a manual - the first time I've driven a manual for some years. I surprised myself with how quickly I slid back into driving one (literally, immediately) and actually enjoyed it. Has to be noted that I actually enjoy driving anything really but even with that in mind, I was a little nervous about the prospect last night.
But Edinburgh is an easy town to drive through - even in rush hour. And this week is a one-off. I'll be back in my Merc GL on Friday. I definitely prefer autos. I'll never go back out of choice.
But Edinburgh is an easy town to drive through - even in rush hour. And this week is a one-off. I'll be back in my Merc GL on Friday. I definitely prefer autos. I'll never go back out of choice.
300bhp/ton said:
If that is the same 7 speed auto that is in the new A-Class, then I found some issues with it.
For 'normal' driving and just wanting to blip the throttle to pull past something, ideal on a multi lane dual carriage way. The box very well. Especially in the sportiest mode. Flex the big toe and it would work some magic and feel uber responsive and quick.
My issue was when you actually tried enjoying the car and wanted to use wide open throttle or at least a heavy throttle input. The box was just completely dimwhitted and a total slug to pick a gear. i.e. floor it at 60mph and wait wait wait wait and it'd drop who knows how many gears and then bounce of the red line.
The car went ok, but the delay from flooring it, to the car actually doing anything was immense and frankly dreadful as a driving experience. Although I've found that the ZF8 speed and ZF6 speed auto's do exactly the same thing.
A gentle blip and part movement on the throttle and the box reacted quickly, only dropping 1 or maybe two gears. No idea on why the polarity of response times. But for a "drivers" car, the gearbox completely ruined the experience. For a hooligan in traffic I'm sure it would work very well however.
Another issue I had was the manual modes. It was never really manual. At best you were allowed an opinion on what gear you wanted, but you have no certainty if the gearbox would respond accordingly or it might even do something else.
Basically in manual mode it would still up and down shift automatically and if you didn't make a manual gearchange for a bit would seem to revert back to full auto mode. It was very annoying and largely completely unusable unless it was for a single downshift.
Also with 7 gears, the paddles only give you limited control, as you can't quickly or easily drop 3 gears. As an it has a tendency to auto shift back up, it makes it hard work to drive it in a sporty manner with manual control.
I find it interesting that you have such frustration with the A class box and yet will defend the Smart Roadster's famously slow change as an acceptable part of the car's character.For 'normal' driving and just wanting to blip the throttle to pull past something, ideal on a multi lane dual carriage way. The box very well. Especially in the sportiest mode. Flex the big toe and it would work some magic and feel uber responsive and quick.
My issue was when you actually tried enjoying the car and wanted to use wide open throttle or at least a heavy throttle input. The box was just completely dimwhitted and a total slug to pick a gear. i.e. floor it at 60mph and wait wait wait wait and it'd drop who knows how many gears and then bounce of the red line.
The car went ok, but the delay from flooring it, to the car actually doing anything was immense and frankly dreadful as a driving experience. Although I've found that the ZF8 speed and ZF6 speed auto's do exactly the same thing.
A gentle blip and part movement on the throttle and the box reacted quickly, only dropping 1 or maybe two gears. No idea on why the polarity of response times. But for a "drivers" car, the gearbox completely ruined the experience. For a hooligan in traffic I'm sure it would work very well however.
Another issue I had was the manual modes. It was never really manual. At best you were allowed an opinion on what gear you wanted, but you have no certainty if the gearbox would respond accordingly or it might even do something else.
Basically in manual mode it would still up and down shift automatically
and if you didn't make a manual gearchange for a bit would seem to revert back to full auto mode. It was very annoying and largely completely unusable unless it was for a single downshift.Also with 7 gears, the paddles only give you limited control, as you can't quickly or easily drop 3 gears. As an it has a tendency to auto shift back up, it makes it hard work to drive it in a sporty manner with manual control.
That's not an attack, I believe you in both cases. I just think it's an interesting observation that in the one case, you can put up with the slow change, and in the other you can't, like perhaps in the Smart you found a way to drive around it and in the Merc you didn't. Or the Smart had other good points which made you more forgiving of the box. Or something else.
So many complicated bits that can make someone like or dislike a car.
I also think it's more to do with the programming than the box itself. The ZF8 in the XE was also slow to change down when putting your foot down, and would then suddenly shift down a bunch of gears and leap off or spin its wheels up. And in manual mode, if you floor it, the kickdown still operates. It would shift down to a gear, headbutt the limiter and then stay there waiting for me to change up... because it's in manual mode
Meanwhile the same box in the Alfa Giulia never gave me a concern about what gear it wanted to pick, never shifted by itself while in manual, never made me wait when I wanted to go faster.
Limpet said:
Maxym said:
All you who love autos in traffic, I suppose it’s so you can leave your foot on the brake when stopped. Just lazy and bad practice.
No. In the BMW, I typically come to a stop, press the P button on the top of the gear lever with my thumb and take my foot off the brake pedal.The Stop/Start system behaves the same whether stationary in Drive or in Park. When you shift back into Drive to pull away again, the engine restarts automatically.
On a different note, Maxym, do you really put your car in neutral and pull up the handbrake every time you stop - even in stop/start traffic? If so, you have more important things to look at in the mirror than deriding people for using the footbrake...
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