Are you an automatic transmission convert?
Discussion
I’ve had autos for the last 19 years, apart from the time company vehicle gave me a manual despite the fact I’d ordered an auto. It was a real pain to drive in traffic.
The best one by far was my first, a 1997 Mercedes C200. 5 speed auto with a proper shift gate: D was effectively 5th, shift across to 4th, then back to 3rd. Meant approach a roundabout you could downshift just like a manual, then just stick it back in D once out the other side. It was pretty much perfect.
None of this straight back to D and then push across for + / - shifting, or worse paddles.
The best one by far was my first, a 1997 Mercedes C200. 5 speed auto with a proper shift gate: D was effectively 5th, shift across to 4th, then back to 3rd. Meant approach a roundabout you could downshift just like a manual, then just stick it back in D once out the other side. It was pretty much perfect.
None of this straight back to D and then push across for + / - shifting, or worse paddles.
I'd choose a manual everytime and have a couple but increasingly the cars I buy are autos because there wasn't a choice.
Proper torque convertor autos I have no issue with, even the old range rover is quite acceptable for that purpose. The 5 sp box in our old amgs is a bit dim witted at times but there is so much grunt it doesn't matter.
But we had a VW 7 spd dsg in the fabia estate and it was hellish. The worst box I've ever driven and something I'd never choose again. I drove another in a golf gtd and that was equally hideous. I wouldn't buy another vw car with that box and will look very carefully at any automated manual. The problem is that they are getting to be the norm so I may not have a choice. I haven't driven any others so I'm hoping they will be better..
Proper torque convertor autos I have no issue with, even the old range rover is quite acceptable for that purpose. The 5 sp box in our old amgs is a bit dim witted at times but there is so much grunt it doesn't matter.
But we had a VW 7 spd dsg in the fabia estate and it was hellish. The worst box I've ever driven and something I'd never choose again. I drove another in a golf gtd and that was equally hideous. I wouldn't buy another vw car with that box and will look very carefully at any automated manual. The problem is that they are getting to be the norm so I may not have a choice. I haven't driven any others so I'm hoping they will be better..
I’ve only been driving about a year and a half, got my second car in January which was an old BMW 7 series with the 5 speed auto, I love it. A little unresponsive when cold but after 5-10 minutes it’s spot on and when flicking it into sport and putting your foot down it changes right at the limit.
Some autos aren’t always suited to boosty small turbo engines though. Set off from a roundabout and it’ll sit in second off boost because economy. Then you realise you’re crawling on to a busy roundabout at 3 mph, you’ll put your foot down and it’ll then change back to first just as it was spooling up the turbo and lurches you forward. Citroen Cactus I’m looking at you.
Edited by talksthetorque on Saturday 18th May 17:24
I said I'd never have one but then it got to the stage where anything i wanted wasnt available as a manual so had no option. 3 years into DSG im not sure i'd go back now due to traffic levels, only thing that drives me round the twist is the car insisting it wants to pull away in 2nd even in Sport mode which is no doubt down emissions crap.
Saying 'i hate automatic gearboxes' is like saying 'i hate engines'
It totally depends on the type of auto box and combination of box and engine.
Lancer with CVT box - horrible
Murano with CVT box - not too bad
Falcon G6E Turbo with ZF - lovely
BK Astra manual - bearable
M135 Auto - lovely
Kia Rio Auto - 140bhp or 40bhp?
It totally depends on the type of auto box and combination of box and engine.
Lancer with CVT box - horrible
Murano with CVT box - not too bad
Falcon G6E Turbo with ZF - lovely
BK Astra manual - bearable
M135 Auto - lovely
Kia Rio Auto - 140bhp or 40bhp?
Gojira said:
Definitely a convert - the ZF8 in my XE is a great cruiser when I want, and is deep fun using the paddles on a windy road...
Waaay better than the first auto I drove - a '92 Mustang hire car in Florida, with the 86 horse engine that wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding
A manual can be fun, even the 5-speed in my first Maxi, where I had to learn to double-declutch because all the synchros were knackered was entertaining through the Peak District, but the ZF just suits the Jag so well.
What engine do you have in the XE? I had a 20d for a year and felt the auto kickdown was unexpected and inconsistent. Waaay better than the first auto I drove - a '92 Mustang hire car in Florida, with the 86 horse engine that wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding
A manual can be fun, even the 5-speed in my first Maxi, where I had to learn to double-declutch because all the synchros were knackered was entertaining through the Peak District, but the ZF just suits the Jag so well.
I’m now on a 430d auto and it feels a lot smoother. I’m definitely a convert based on these two cars - while jerky the XE was much nicer overall than a manual but with the option of paddles if so desired.
manracer said:
Parents have a 2.0 tdi DSG Tiguan and I can't stand it. The pairing just doesn't work for me.
How strange - that's what my wife has and I think it works fine. As I said earlier in the thread, I've never driven another DSG, but my own car is an older 5 speed speed auto Merc, and the box in that is well regarded. I'd say the Tiguan is very similar to the Merc in the way it picks up from rest and drives - don't experience any lag, or catching it in the wrong gear etc. And I don't drive it that much, so it's not like I've adapted my driving style to it.
Bought an auto Disco 1 in London 25 + years ago. Was totally converted. So relaxing.
Now any car I have that isn't a sports car is auto (Bongo, and now a D3).
However, 911 996 C4s was tiptronic (auto) and it ruined the experience to a large extent.
Now have a TVR griff and having the manual is perfect.
Sit in traffic a lot? Auto. Drive for fun? manual
Now any car I have that isn't a sports car is auto (Bongo, and now a D3).
However, 911 996 C4s was tiptronic (auto) and it ruined the experience to a large extent.
Now have a TVR griff and having the manual is perfect.
Sit in traffic a lot? Auto. Drive for fun? manual
TenTwoDriver said:
I switched from manual to my first DSG box when I changed my car, and I honestly miss manual.
I've always been like this and whenever I drive an auto/DSG I always miss a manual. The only time I appreciate an auto is in very heavy stop/start traffic and I do think that they work well in that situation. No, I keep our private cars usually for a decade and I don't trust modern auto boxes (aka 'dual clutch') reliability long-term, and I cannot stand the sound of Toyota's thrashy hybrids. I don't mind driving DSG's etc but I wouldn't buy one. For company cars I have no issues with a manual so don't see any point adding £1K+ onto my P11D and paying more tax for an auto option on a car I don't own. I can see why more people are buying auto's as they have improved in driveability though.
For daily driving and traffic jams auto all the way (Mercedes c43 currently). But for a weekend car or enjoying driving I still like a manual car (manual porsche 996).
Problem is clearly most people now buying auto new means few manual cars will be on used market in a few years as weekend/track cars.
Problem is clearly most people now buying auto new means few manual cars will be on used market in a few years as weekend/track cars.
Fiisch said:
When I get old and bored of driving, I will probably drive an automatic..........
Have you driven anything modern and very high performance recently?It would take an awful lot to go up and down the seven speeds manually in an R8 plus, 488, or the like.
Above a certain level of performance you need an automatic to be bake to actually use the car as it’s capable of being used.
As I said above, I’m getting an Abarth in manual, but anything very fast nowadays I prefer in automatic.
I think both types of box are enjoyable, at the correct time and place and application.
Where that is time / place / application is though, is different for everyone.
Man box is harder work so, can be more fun and involving.
Auto box is easier physically, to drive in traffic / fast, and can be generally more relaxing.
I really enjoy driving both, but if I had to have only one car, it would have to be a man box.
The auto is great for slow traffic, and also for flat out acceleration, but for me that’s it. To often caught guessing in normal driving.
The ‘normal’ driving we do on road is mostly in between these two extremes.
I can do a better, smoother job than a ZF / DSG / PDK.
I can also enjoy enjoy the challenge of the interaction.
My main issue now, is that both types are hampered by manufacturers interference.
Man box suffer all sorts of operational problems caused throttle valve interaction, clutch delay valves, ecu modes, throttle auto bliping etc.
I feel close to giving up sometimes, as the manual isn’t really that manual anymore!
I’d like auto more, if the ecu programming could be set up correctly for driving, not just the fastest way to top in eco mode, or hanging onto gears to long in silly ‘sporty’ modes!
There are also too many mistakes on the ergonomics front.
Pull forward for up or down?
Paddles for left / right up down?
Paddles that are too big / small.
Paddles that rotate on road cars!
We have seen some manufacturers learn very slowly indeed.
It’s almost like none of them actually drive!
Where that is time / place / application is though, is different for everyone.
Man box is harder work so, can be more fun and involving.
Auto box is easier physically, to drive in traffic / fast, and can be generally more relaxing.
I really enjoy driving both, but if I had to have only one car, it would have to be a man box.
The auto is great for slow traffic, and also for flat out acceleration, but for me that’s it. To often caught guessing in normal driving.
The ‘normal’ driving we do on road is mostly in between these two extremes.
I can do a better, smoother job than a ZF / DSG / PDK.
I can also enjoy enjoy the challenge of the interaction.
My main issue now, is that both types are hampered by manufacturers interference.
Man box suffer all sorts of operational problems caused throttle valve interaction, clutch delay valves, ecu modes, throttle auto bliping etc.
I feel close to giving up sometimes, as the manual isn’t really that manual anymore!
I’d like auto more, if the ecu programming could be set up correctly for driving, not just the fastest way to top in eco mode, or hanging onto gears to long in silly ‘sporty’ modes!
There are also too many mistakes on the ergonomics front.
Pull forward for up or down?
Paddles for left / right up down?
Paddles that are too big / small.
Paddles that rotate on road cars!
We have seen some manufacturers learn very slowly indeed.
It’s almost like none of them actually drive!
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff