RE: 2019 Toyota Supra review: PH Video!
Discussion
thiscocks said:
nuttywobbler said:
I love the way it looks from the outside - I think it’s fantastic, one of the best looking cars on sale in fact.
But the rest of it does absolutely nothing for me - the fact it’s a BMW Z4 with a different body ruins it for me. Same engine as an m140 which is half the price etc. Just not special enough under the skin.
Same. Have absolutely no interest in it knowing it has a bmw engine and chassis. Considering some of the great engines Toyota have made it's just so massively lame. No thanks. But the rest of it does absolutely nothing for me - the fact it’s a BMW Z4 with a different body ruins it for me. Same engine as an m140 which is half the price etc. Just not special enough under the skin.
It’s not an off the shelf BMW platform. If it was... why hook up with Toyota to design something you they already had...?
Yeah, I get all the heritage related complaints.
So far as I'm concerned, though, it's a very usable, enjoyable coupe with an interesting engine for less than the price of the average Cayman. That's a genre we need more of. I'm personally less interested in comparing it with past Supras than I am in the inevitable triple test with a TT RS and an M2.
So far as I'm concerned, though, it's a very usable, enjoyable coupe with an interesting engine for less than the price of the average Cayman. That's a genre we need more of. I'm personally less interested in comparing it with past Supras than I am in the inevitable triple test with a TT RS and an M2.
dunnoreally said:
Yeah, I get all the heritage related complaints.
So far as I'm concerned, though, it's a very usable, enjoyable coupe with an interesting engine for less than the price of the average Cayman. That's a genre we need more of. I'm personally less interested in comparing it with past Supras than I am in the inevitable triple test with a TT RS and an M2.
I think this is a good context to view this car, if it had been called a Celica maybe there would be less resistance. As for the BMW interior isn't that a huge plus, not sure Japanese cars have ever been renowned for stylish cabins? So far as I'm concerned, though, it's a very usable, enjoyable coupe with an interesting engine for less than the price of the average Cayman. That's a genre we need more of. I'm personally less interested in comparing it with past Supras than I am in the inevitable triple test with a TT RS and an M2.
Venisonpie said:
I think this is a good context to view this car, if it had been called a Celica maybe there would be less resistance. As for the BMW interior isn't that a huge plus, not sure Japanese cars have ever been renowned for stylish cabins?
If not stylish well made - no rattles in either of my old Lexus crates - quite unlike the german equivalents. I quite like the cabin - but the newer Japanese stuff is really nice (Mazda six, new MX5, Lexus models etc) inside and out. HighwayStar said:
thiscocks said:
nuttywobbler said:
I love the way it looks from the outside - I think it’s fantastic, one of the best looking cars on sale in fact.
But the rest of it does absolutely nothing for me - the fact it’s a BMW Z4 with a different body ruins it for me. Same engine as an m140 which is half the price etc. Just not special enough under the skin.
Same. Have absolutely no interest in it knowing it has a bmw engine and chassis. Considering some of the great engines Toyota have made it's just so massively lame. No thanks. But the rest of it does absolutely nothing for me - the fact it’s a BMW Z4 with a different body ruins it for me. Same engine as an m140 which is half the price etc. Just not special enough under the skin.
It’s not an off the shelf BMW platform. If it was... why hook up with Toyota to design something you they already had...?
https://jalopnik.com/what-we-found-when-we-crawled...
Julian Thompson said:
That’s a an absolutely brilliant question.. why not indeed?
No space for a big engine without massive changes to the BIW I would imagine.Engine bay is design for a boxer 4, which is very low (think pedestrian crash regulations etc) and very short (just 2 cyl long), so trying to fit an i6 or lexus v8 would be far more costly than knicking BMWs platform
redroadster said:
I like it ,tuning firms like Litchfield will take it up a notch if u really need more performance? .Although manual shift is preferred when cars acceleration is this quick these paddle shifters help keep your hands where they need to be .
I’m not sure if the comment about Litchfield is missing the point or is, in fact, hitting the nail on the head.Part of me thinks that it should have had more power to start with but then I also consider that instead of buying the Supra and having it tuned why not buy a ‘better’/faster car in the first instance?
I too remember the Supra Turbo (A80 1993-02)
I was 30 when they came out but remember being in awe of them.
At the time I was driving a 3dr Cosworth
A local sports car specialist on my old patch had one in, and the owner was a serial Lotus Esprit Turbo owner
Called in one day and he let me take out his Esprit S4S which felt a blinding thing
We then went out in the Supra and I can remember being intimidated by the thing, it’s Power was stunning (for the era) and the long bonnet made me feel like I was sat at the rear bumper looking along the deck of an aircraft carrier.
There is nothing about this ‘Supra’ that makes me want one, to me it comes across as very vanilla compared to other current offerings
from rival marques.
Somehow Toyota has come up with a good idea but dropped the ball. And with it, a great opportunity has been missed..
Augustus Windsock said:
redroadster said:
I like it ,tuning firms like Litchfield will take it up a notch if u really need more performance? .Although manual shift is preferred when cars acceleration is this quick these paddle shifters help keep your hands where they need to be .
I’m not sure if the comment about Litchfield is missing the point or is, in fact, hitting the nail on the head.Part of me thinks that it should have had more power to start with but then I also consider that instead of buying the Supra and having it tuned why not buy a ‘better’/faster car in the first instance?
I too remember the Supra Turbo (A80 1993-02)
I was 30 when they came out but remember being in awe of them.
At the time I was driving a 3dr Cosworth
A local sports car specialist on my old patch had one in, and the owner was a serial Lotus Esprit Turbo owner
Called in one day and he let me take out his Esprit S4S which felt a blinding thing
We then went out in the Supra and I can remember being intimidated by the thing, it’s Power was stunning (for the era) and the long bonnet made me feel like I was sat at the rear bumper looking along the deck of an aircraft carrier.
There is nothing about this ‘Supra’ that makes me want one, to me it comes across as very vanilla compared to other current offerings
from rival marques.
Somehow Toyota has come up with a good idea but dropped the ball. And with it, a great opportunity has been missed..
Even as standard it will blitz a standard Mk4 TT, amazing how we have got blasé about cars that will do 0-60 in 4 seconds (as low as 3.8 has been quoted) and on to a 100 in nine, that's 4.1 seconds quicker to 100 mph than the mk4.
As an entry model its pretty bloody rapid, 0.1 of a second slower to 100 than a 996 Turbo, ok, bare performance figures arent the be all and end all but have a nosey at this list of 0-100 times and see where it fits in. (Bearing in mind some are a bit iffy)
https://www.autosnout.com/Cars-0-100mph-Times-List...
No reason to doubt that 9 seconds, the standard M140i with the same engine manages 9.9 and this has a trick diff and wider tyres. 9 sec to sixty used to be a reason to be excited, now getting to 100 in 9 second barely raises an eyebrow.
Does make me wonder how much performance people actually need ?
I think its more down to the engine is familiar and from a fairly mundane BMW model we are all familiar with, plus the headline output isn't a big deal these days, not that the car is in anyway slow, 12.3 second quarter mile time being another example, which is weird as thats whats quote for the M2 comp.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27452748/2020-t...
Augustus Windsock said:
I too remember the Supra Turbo (A80 1993-02)
I was 30 when they came out but remember being in awe of them.
At the time I was driving a 3dr Cosworth
A local sports car specialist on my old patch had one in, and the owner was a serial Lotus Esprit Turbo owner
Called in one day and he let me take out his Esprit S4S which felt a blinding thing
We then went out in the Supra and I can remember being intimidated by the thing, it’s Power was stunning (for the era) and the long bonnet made me feel like I was sat at the rear bumper looking along the deck of an aircraft carrier.
It's good to get an actual memory from the era, from someone already driving a very fast car of the time.I was 30 when they came out but remember being in awe of them.
At the time I was driving a 3dr Cosworth
A local sports car specialist on my old patch had one in, and the owner was a serial Lotus Esprit Turbo owner
Called in one day and he let me take out his Esprit S4S which felt a blinding thing
We then went out in the Supra and I can remember being intimidated by the thing, it’s Power was stunning (for the era) and the long bonnet made me feel like I was sat at the rear bumper looking along the deck of an aircraft carrier.
J4CKO said:
Does make me wonder how much performance people actually need ?
I agree with this, but it doesn't stop nearly every other manufacturer pushing their top models bhp higher and higher (and getting qudos for doing so)It is all a bit ludicrous though and the cars got great performance no doubt.
If it hadn't out performed the 25 year old predecessor it would have been in trouble! advances in diff/autobox/launch control account for much of this as weight and power aren't hugely different. Modern cars ability to launch wheel spin wheel free are a huge benefit to the 0-'x' times that all manufacturers chase to creep up the charts (rightly or wrongly they do seem to matter to the mags/public)
It will be interesting if they do bring out an higher powered version or even what boost the engine runs as stock and if it can be tweaked a bit (the main modding of the Mkiv is a relatively simple increase in boost), in Japan they have lower powered (4 pot turbo) ones, which suggests this isn't an entry model.
I like it.
To people moaning about the heritage, the 'lack' of power, the gearbox or whatever... I think you're all thinking the wrong way.
Japanese cars are generally OK up to 100k miles but after that start to go a bit wrong. BMW is one of the few marques which do not do that. Having much BMW componentry and drivetrain can only be good for Toyota. BMW's tend to look a bit... well.. teutonic on the outside, but do have nice kit, interiors and drivetrains. BMW looks have always been an acquired taste, especially the grilles they insist on having.
340bhp. That's still an enormous amount of power. If you say you can use another 100bhp on top of that for the road you're wrong. Tonnes of people on here said they loved the idea of the GT86 and either then didn't buy them, or then complained about the lack of power. Surely this is the answer to your prayers? Sure, it's a bit pricy... but it's a lot cheaper than a base spec 911 right? I remember when people used to exclaim under their breath at the power of an XR3i... 340bhp is not and never will be a small amount of power. Plus, what's the betting a simple remap will release 50 or 60bhp? These cars will be a blank canvas on which the owner can build their art (or dog, as the case may be!). It's also worth noting similar people often contribute to the 'When will it end?' power race threads with "350bhp is about right". It's arguable if you can even use that much on the road these days!
Gearbox. Tonnes of Japanese cars have autoboxes, and the 8 speed ZF is widely considered a masterpiece in the genre. It has paddle shift or auto mode, so surely this is the perfect compromise between sportiness and comfort? H pattern stick shifts are getting a bit old school nowadays... Everyone I've spoken to who has driven an 8 speed ZF equipped car raves about it.
The look, OK I can see why some might not like it, but I personally think it's waaaay nicer than the MKIV Supra which at best was vaguely pretty, but at worst downright toad like. The Supra as a car has never been a drop dead take-your-breath-away car, and this is a lot closer to that than it is 'bulbous teardrop frog' IMO.
If I was about to drop that amount on a car i'd definitely consider one of these. In a few years, I'll definitely be keeping an eye on the PH classifieds. I just hope they don't suffer from GT86 syndrome, in that tonnes of people say they like it, but nobody buys. People buy SUVs and Crossovers instead. What a sad world we now live in.
Could you see Vin Diesel driving one of these in a modern remake of one of the early Fast movies? You bet.
To people moaning about the heritage, the 'lack' of power, the gearbox or whatever... I think you're all thinking the wrong way.
Japanese cars are generally OK up to 100k miles but after that start to go a bit wrong. BMW is one of the few marques which do not do that. Having much BMW componentry and drivetrain can only be good for Toyota. BMW's tend to look a bit... well.. teutonic on the outside, but do have nice kit, interiors and drivetrains. BMW looks have always been an acquired taste, especially the grilles they insist on having.
340bhp. That's still an enormous amount of power. If you say you can use another 100bhp on top of that for the road you're wrong. Tonnes of people on here said they loved the idea of the GT86 and either then didn't buy them, or then complained about the lack of power. Surely this is the answer to your prayers? Sure, it's a bit pricy... but it's a lot cheaper than a base spec 911 right? I remember when people used to exclaim under their breath at the power of an XR3i... 340bhp is not and never will be a small amount of power. Plus, what's the betting a simple remap will release 50 or 60bhp? These cars will be a blank canvas on which the owner can build their art (or dog, as the case may be!). It's also worth noting similar people often contribute to the 'When will it end?' power race threads with "350bhp is about right". It's arguable if you can even use that much on the road these days!
Gearbox. Tonnes of Japanese cars have autoboxes, and the 8 speed ZF is widely considered a masterpiece in the genre. It has paddle shift or auto mode, so surely this is the perfect compromise between sportiness and comfort? H pattern stick shifts are getting a bit old school nowadays... Everyone I've spoken to who has driven an 8 speed ZF equipped car raves about it.
The look, OK I can see why some might not like it, but I personally think it's waaaay nicer than the MKIV Supra which at best was vaguely pretty, but at worst downright toad like. The Supra as a car has never been a drop dead take-your-breath-away car, and this is a lot closer to that than it is 'bulbous teardrop frog' IMO.
If I was about to drop that amount on a car i'd definitely consider one of these. In a few years, I'll definitely be keeping an eye on the PH classifieds. I just hope they don't suffer from GT86 syndrome, in that tonnes of people say they like it, but nobody buys. People buy SUVs and Crossovers instead. What a sad world we now live in.
Could you see Vin Diesel driving one of these in a modern remake of one of the early Fast movies? You bet.
Edited by MarJay on Monday 20th May 13:39
Edited by MarJay on Monday 20th May 13:40
Scootersp said:
Augustus Windsock said:
I too remember the Supra Turbo (A80 1993-02)
I was 30 when they came out but remember being in awe of them.
At the time I was driving a 3dr Cosworth
A local sports car specialist on my old patch had one in, and the owner was a serial Lotus Esprit Turbo owner
Called in one day and he let me take out his Esprit S4S which felt a blinding thing
We then went out in the Supra and I can remember being intimidated by the thing, it’s Power was stunning (for the era) and the long bonnet made me feel like I was sat at the rear bumper looking along the deck of an aircraft carrier.
It's good to get an actual memory from the era, from someone already driving a very fast car of the time.I was 30 when they came out but remember being in awe of them.
At the time I was driving a 3dr Cosworth
A local sports car specialist on my old patch had one in, and the owner was a serial Lotus Esprit Turbo owner
Called in one day and he let me take out his Esprit S4S which felt a blinding thing
We then went out in the Supra and I can remember being intimidated by the thing, it’s Power was stunning (for the era) and the long bonnet made me feel like I was sat at the rear bumper looking along the deck of an aircraft carrier.
Whereas I can see where the new model is going and am starting to warm to it visually, I class myself as a bit long in the tooth for the package it offers and probably closer to it's Z4 relation (although actually really hankering for a V8 F-type).
Toyota made this car for the tuning market, apparently.
Watch the Doug De Muro review, he covers these points:
https://youtu.be/4oC8cvUb0kI
Personally I am not decided on the looks of this car.
Haven't seen it live, but a priori I would prefer the M2 Competition or maybe even the 1M.
Watch the Doug De Muro review, he covers these points:
https://youtu.be/4oC8cvUb0kI
Personally I am not decided on the looks of this car.
Haven't seen it live, but a priori I would prefer the M2 Competition or maybe even the 1M.
CABC said:
MarJay said:
Japanese cars are generally OK up to 100k miles but after that start to go a bit wrong. BMW is one of the few marques which do not do that.
really?my own limited experience of both is in line with the normal conception that the opposite is true.
Anecdotally, I do know of a Mkiv Supra that got to over 300K on the original (unopened) Engine, gearbox and turbo's.
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