Are the Porsche 4-pot 718 models selling then?
Discussion
T1berious said:
Is a real Porsche fan a buyer that will only do one or all of the following:
Buy a 993 at monstrous cost in the name of keeping it real as "Air cooled or go home"
Weep daily at the constant dilution of the once great brand
Key any Cayenne or Panamera he happens apon. (He couldn't bring himself to go near anything as low rent as a Boxster or Cayman for fear of catching something)
I know the 718 was a downsizing too far for many (myself included) but Porsche do have some good form with 4 pots!
This post was meant as light hearted jesting and in no way meant to offend any 993 owners. (that I'd be envious of anyway)
Add two bonus points for a mention of the Old Man in the Village who's exclusively driven an air-cooled Turbo 930 for the last 30 years and is a "proper Porsche man" who reckons that selling new cars to people who've never owned a Porsche before - and are therefore undesirable as Porsche owners - is the road to ruin. Buy a 993 at monstrous cost in the name of keeping it real as "Air cooled or go home"
Weep daily at the constant dilution of the once great brand
Key any Cayenne or Panamera he happens apon. (He couldn't bring himself to go near anything as low rent as a Boxster or Cayman for fear of catching something)
I know the 718 was a downsizing too far for many (myself included) but Porsche do have some good form with 4 pots!
This post was meant as light hearted jesting and in no way meant to offend any 993 owners. (that I'd be envious of anyway)
Further mentions of manual gearboxes, PCP and cringeworthy mentions of people buying one a week so that they have a LOI to the DP for a GT3 are all worth a further point.
RemyMartin81D said:
EdJ said:
Bob-2146 said:
Thanks for posting this - very interesting. The consistency is what surprises me, not just with the 718, but also with the 991. 
k load of macans!I'm not all that surprised that they're not selling well.
I had one for a couple of days whilst my GT3 was in for a service and whilst the chassis felt really good the engine was just so uninspiring, It was a shame as I liked pretty much everything else about the car. It from memory was also horrendously uneconomical compared to what I was expecting.
I had one for a couple of days whilst my GT3 was in for a service and whilst the chassis felt really good the engine was just so uninspiring, It was a shame as I liked pretty much everything else about the car. It from memory was also horrendously uneconomical compared to what I was expecting.
Let’s not forget they also seem really, really expensive.
I need someone good at inflation / relative numbers here but to be anecdotal I can remember looking to buy a new 986 boxster in 2003. I still have the paperwork that the sales guy prepared ironically - here it is to add some colour. Probably be sideways. Sorry.
So 36k bought you a 2.7 with a very light options list.
I remember that I had just bought a new bmw 330d touring for about £29k.
Bear in mind that the £29k price was after discount and that the £36k Porsche price was being offered with absolutely no discount possible other than maybe a pair of carpet mats.
Now, in 2019 I reckon £29k would buy you a totally equivalent bmw estate. But you need £49k to buy a new boxster with metallic, upgraded wheels and a couple of trinkets so I make the Boxster getting on for 40% more expensive relative to 2003 if you’re using something pretty ubiquitous like a bmw estate as a yardstick.
I need someone good at inflation / relative numbers here but to be anecdotal I can remember looking to buy a new 986 boxster in 2003. I still have the paperwork that the sales guy prepared ironically - here it is to add some colour. Probably be sideways. Sorry.
So 36k bought you a 2.7 with a very light options list.
I remember that I had just bought a new bmw 330d touring for about £29k.
Bear in mind that the £29k price was after discount and that the £36k Porsche price was being offered with absolutely no discount possible other than maybe a pair of carpet mats.
Now, in 2019 I reckon £29k would buy you a totally equivalent bmw estate. But you need £49k to buy a new boxster with metallic, upgraded wheels and a couple of trinkets so I make the Boxster getting on for 40% more expensive relative to 2003 if you’re using something pretty ubiquitous like a bmw estate as a yardstick.
Edited by Julian Thompson on Monday 20th May 10:23
Edited by Julian Thompson on Monday 20th May 10:24
Julian Thompson said:
Let’s not forget they also seem really, really expensive.
I need someone good at inflation / relative numbers here but to be anecdotal I can remember looking to buy a new 986 boxster in 2003. I still have the paperwork that the sales guy prepared ironically - here it is to add some colour. Probably be sideways. Sorry.
So 36k bought you a 2.7 with a very light options list.
I remember that I had just bought a new bmw 330d touring for about £29k.
Bear in mind that the £29k price was after discount and that the £36k Porsche price was being offered with absolutely no discount possible other than maybe a pair of carpet mats.
Now, in 2019 I reckon £29k would buy you a totally equivalent bmw estate. But you need £49k to buy a new boxster with metallic, upgraded wheels and a couple of trinkets so I make the Boxster getting on for 40% more expensive relative to 2003 if you’re using something pretty ubiquitous like a bmw estate as a yardstick.
A new 3 series Touring *starts* at £29,345 for a 318i SE. Looking at their configurator, the current 330D is only available in M-Sport trim, so you're looking at a base price of about £43k before you even look at the options list.I need someone good at inflation / relative numbers here but to be anecdotal I can remember looking to buy a new 986 boxster in 2003. I still have the paperwork that the sales guy prepared ironically - here it is to add some colour. Probably be sideways. Sorry.
So 36k bought you a 2.7 with a very light options list.
I remember that I had just bought a new bmw 330d touring for about £29k.
Bear in mind that the £29k price was after discount and that the £36k Porsche price was being offered with absolutely no discount possible other than maybe a pair of carpet mats.
Now, in 2019 I reckon £29k would buy you a totally equivalent bmw estate. But you need £49k to buy a new boxster with metallic, upgraded wheels and a couple of trinkets so I make the Boxster getting on for 40% more expensive relative to 2003 if you’re using something pretty ubiquitous like a bmw estate as a yardstick.
Edited by Julian Thompson on Monday 20th May 10:23
Edited by Julian Thompson on Monday 20th May 10:24
Julian Thompson said:
Let’s not forget they also seem really, really expensive.
I need someone good at inflation / relative numbers here but to be anecdotal I can remember looking to buy a new 986 boxster in 2003. I still have the paperwork that the sales guy prepared ironically - here it is to add some colour. Probably be sideways. Sorry.
So 36k bought you a 2.7 with a very light options list.
I remember that I had just bought a new bmw 330d touring for about £29k.
Bear in mind that the £29k price was after discount and that the £36k Porsche price was being offered with absolutely no discount possible other than maybe a pair of carpet mats.
Now, in 2019 I reckon £29k would buy you a totally equivalent bmw estate. But you need £49k to buy a new boxster with metallic, upgraded wheels and a couple of trinkets so I make the Boxster getting on for 40% more expensive relative to 2003 if you’re using something pretty ubiquitous like a bmw estate as a yardstick.
More expensive new cars often tend to cost less than less expensive new cars in terms of depreciation.I need someone good at inflation / relative numbers here but to be anecdotal I can remember looking to buy a new 986 boxster in 2003. I still have the paperwork that the sales guy prepared ironically - here it is to add some colour. Probably be sideways. Sorry.
So 36k bought you a 2.7 with a very light options list.
I remember that I had just bought a new bmw 330d touring for about £29k.
Bear in mind that the £29k price was after discount and that the £36k Porsche price was being offered with absolutely no discount possible other than maybe a pair of carpet mats.
Now, in 2019 I reckon £29k would buy you a totally equivalent bmw estate. But you need £49k to buy a new boxster with metallic, upgraded wheels and a couple of trinkets so I make the Boxster getting on for 40% more expensive relative to 2003 if you’re using something pretty ubiquitous like a bmw estate as a yardstick.
Edited by Julian Thompson on Monday 20th May 10:23
Edited by Julian Thompson on Monday 20th May 10:24
Never ceases to amaze how much folk lose in depreciation after buying a heavily discounted obviously overpriced new car then whinging how much it continues to depreciate.
The BMW M3/4/5 is a prime example available at up to 20% off. But for a reason. They are too expensive in the first place.
Julian Thompson said:
Let’s not forget they also seem really, really expensive.
I need someone good at inflation / relative numbers here but to be anecdotal I can remember looking to buy a new 986 boxster in 2003. I still have the paperwork that the sales guy prepared ironically - here it is to add some colour. Probably be sideways. Sorry.
So 36k bought you a 2.7 with a very light options list.
I remember that I had just bought a new bmw 330d touring for about £29k.
Bear in mind that the £29k price was after discount and that the £36k Porsche price was being offered with absolutely no discount possible other than maybe a pair of carpet mats.
Now, in 2019 I reckon £29k would buy you a totally equivalent bmw estate. But you need £49k to buy a new boxster with metallic, upgraded wheels and a couple of trinkets so I make the Boxster getting on for 40% more expensive relative to 2003 if you’re using something pretty ubiquitous like a bmw estate as a yardstick.
http://www.in2013dollars.com/2003-GBP-in-2017?amou...I need someone good at inflation / relative numbers here but to be anecdotal I can remember looking to buy a new 986 boxster in 2003. I still have the paperwork that the sales guy prepared ironically - here it is to add some colour. Probably be sideways. Sorry.
So 36k bought you a 2.7 with a very light options list.
I remember that I had just bought a new bmw 330d touring for about £29k.
Bear in mind that the £29k price was after discount and that the £36k Porsche price was being offered with absolutely no discount possible other than maybe a pair of carpet mats.
Now, in 2019 I reckon £29k would buy you a totally equivalent bmw estate. But you need £49k to buy a new boxster with metallic, upgraded wheels and a couple of trinkets so I make the Boxster getting on for 40% more expensive relative to 2003 if you’re using something pretty ubiquitous like a bmw estate as a yardstick.
Edited by Julian Thompson on Monday 20th May 10:23
Edited by Julian Thompson on Monday 20th May 10:24
"According to the Office for National Statistics composite price index, prices in 2017 are 50.29% higher than average prices throughout 2003"
cerb4.5lee said:
RemyMartin81D said:
EdJ said:
Bob-2146 said:
Thanks for posting this - very interesting. The consistency is what surprises me, not just with the 718, but also with the 991. k load of macans!
We have the 2.0L Macan and whilst it's not particularly fast (nor is it the slowest car on the road), it's a great package and a really nice place to be
I'm not sure these days Porsche have to offer all of their cars with cooking engines, some of us don't want to travel at warp speed factor 8 but simply want a great car.
I've seen a few out and about, and had a good chat to the owner of a 718S last week on a hotel car park. He certainly seemed happy with it, having moved from a 981, and to be fair it didn't sound too bad for a four-cylinder motor.
I think had Porsche launched the 718 as a new car without any previous Boxsters / Caymans with 6 cylinder history, it would have been a much bigger hit than it has been. The down-size to four cylinders will always be seen as a step backwards, even though the new 4 is a very competent engine in its own right. From the accounts I've heard, the handling and grip is even better than it was in the 981.
Would I change my 987 for a 718? Probably not. But then, I've had my 987 a (very) long time, and I'm really quite attached to it now.
I think had Porsche launched the 718 as a new car without any previous Boxsters / Caymans with 6 cylinder history, it would have been a much bigger hit than it has been. The down-size to four cylinders will always be seen as a step backwards, even though the new 4 is a very competent engine in its own right. From the accounts I've heard, the handling and grip is even better than it was in the 981.
Would I change my 987 for a 718? Probably not. But then, I've had my 987 a (very) long time, and I'm really quite attached to it now.
Bob-2146 said:
Julian Thompson said:
Let’s not forget they also seem really, really expensive.
I need someone good at inflation / relative numbers here but to be anecdotal I can remember looking to buy a new 986 boxster in 2003. I still have the paperwork that the sales guy prepared ironically - here it is to add some colour. Probably be sideways. Sorry.
So 36k bought you a 2.7 with a very light options list.
I remember that I had just bought a new bmw 330d touring for about £29k.
Bear in mind that the £29k price was after discount and that the £36k Porsche price was being offered with absolutely no discount possible other than maybe a pair of carpet mats.
Now, in 2019 I reckon £29k would buy you a totally equivalent bmw estate. But you need £49k to buy a new boxster with metallic, upgraded wheels and a couple of trinkets so I make the Boxster getting on for 40% more expensive relative to 2003 if you’re using something pretty ubiquitous like a bmw estate as a yardstick.
http://www.in2013dollars.com/2003-GBP-in-2017?amou...I need someone good at inflation / relative numbers here but to be anecdotal I can remember looking to buy a new 986 boxster in 2003. I still have the paperwork that the sales guy prepared ironically - here it is to add some colour. Probably be sideways. Sorry.
So 36k bought you a 2.7 with a very light options list.
I remember that I had just bought a new bmw 330d touring for about £29k.
Bear in mind that the £29k price was after discount and that the £36k Porsche price was being offered with absolutely no discount possible other than maybe a pair of carpet mats.
Now, in 2019 I reckon £29k would buy you a totally equivalent bmw estate. But you need £49k to buy a new boxster with metallic, upgraded wheels and a couple of trinkets so I make the Boxster getting on for 40% more expensive relative to 2003 if you’re using something pretty ubiquitous like a bmw estate as a yardstick.
Edited by Julian Thompson on Monday 20th May 10:23
Edited by Julian Thompson on Monday 20th May 10:24
"According to the Office for National Statistics composite price index, prices in 2017 are 50.29% higher than average prices throughout 2003"
£36,000 in 2003 inflates to £49,822 by the end of 2018.
Boxsters start at £46,651 according to https://www.porsche.com/uk/models/718/718-boxster-... .
In calendar 2018, 718 Boxster and Cayman deliveries combined fell 1% from 2017 to 24,750 units.
I think this is more up to date data than mentioned earlier.
See here: https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/company/porsche-pe...
2019 Q1 deliveries were rubbish, especially in Europe because of WLTP and I guess the introduction of the new 911, but the company hasn't given any breakdown by model except to say that the Macan and Cayenne were still the best sellers.
I think this is more up to date data than mentioned earlier.
See here: https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/company/porsche-pe...
2019 Q1 deliveries were rubbish, especially in Europe because of WLTP and I guess the introduction of the new 911, but the company hasn't given any breakdown by model except to say that the Macan and Cayenne were still the best sellers.
RemyMartin81D said:
EdJ said:
Bob-2146 said:
Thanks for posting this - very interesting. The consistency is what surprises me, not just with the 718, but also with the 991. k load of macans!I'd love to see the UK sales figures over the past 5 years though to see how hard Macan and Cayenne sales have been hit since the dropping of diesel.
I'm actually able to still keep a mental count of the new Cayenne's I've seen on the road since their introduction....and its not many as I can still use the fingers of one hand to keep score!!
aeropilot said:
RemyMartin81D said:
EdJ said:
Bob-2146 said:
Thanks for posting this - very interesting. The consistency is what surprises me, not just with the 718, but also with the 991. k load of macans!I'd love to see the UK sales figures over the past 5 years though to see how hard Macan and Cayenne sales have been hit since the dropping of diesel.
I'm actually able to still keep a mental count of the new Cayenne's I've seen on the road since their introduction....and its not many as I can still use the fingers of one hand to keep score!!
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/annual-sustainabil...
What would customers buy instead, though?
The new Z4 3.0 has the right engine but the wrong gearbox, and is it even out yet?
The TT RS has 5 cylinders but doesn't handle half as well (also not available with a manual).
The Mercedes SLC is ancient, as is the Nissan 370Z (although I might actually choose the 370Z anyway).
Is the F-Type the only real alternative?
The new Z4 3.0 has the right engine but the wrong gearbox, and is it even out yet?
The TT RS has 5 cylinders but doesn't handle half as well (also not available with a manual).
The Mercedes SLC is ancient, as is the Nissan 370Z (although I might actually choose the 370Z anyway).
Is the F-Type the only real alternative?
louiebaby said:
Very interesting. You read a constant stream of negativity on PH about it all and yet it seems they are even outselling the 981. This kind of aligns with my own experience of test driving one recently, if you ignore the internet nonsense posted about the sound 'myth' it turns out they are very impressive cars, incredibly quick too. YMMV, of course.
Just shows how myopic PH is these days..
Lexington59 said:
Very interesting. You read a constant stream of negativity on PH about it all and yet it seems they are even outselling the 981.
This kind of aligns with my own experience of test driving one recently, if you ignore the internet nonsense posted about the sound 'myth' it turns out they are very impressive cars, incredibly quick too. YMMV, of course.
Just shows how myopic PH is these days..
Indeed. Internet forums give a very skewed view.This kind of aligns with my own experience of test driving one recently, if you ignore the internet nonsense posted about the sound 'myth' it turns out they are very impressive cars, incredibly quick too. YMMV, of course.
Just shows how myopic PH is these days..
I owned a 718CS for 12 months from new.
Objectively, it is a RWD, mid-engined, low-slung 2-seater sports car, made by Porsche who are among the best in the business. As such it very much met my objective expectation - it is a superb car through that objective lens, just as the previous 981 incarnation was.
The 718 brings a move from the respected NA flat 6 to the new FI flat 4. And that is where the subjective polarisation has come that we read about so frequently online. Subjectively, some don't like the torque curve of FI over NA, some do. I prefer it personally; I like the thrill of the added acceleration when the turbine spools up, I like the associated whine from the turbine, and I like the additional power whilst the turbine is kept on-song, particularly on the track.
More subjectively than the move from NA to FI is the sound. Whilst the NA 6 sounds glorious, right up to a crescendo at top-revs, the FI 4 sounds like a rough bag of spanners being jangled about. This, as we know, is not to everyone's taste. Personally, I liked the sound. It was rough and abrasive. Gruff and slightly bass at low revs, metallic and raspy at high. I purposely specced my 718CS with the Sports exhaust (PSE) which served to amplify those rough, gruff sounds - PSE was permanently on wherever I drove. Nothing else on the road sounded quite like it
So Objectively the 718 is through and through a superb car, just as the 987 and 981 were before it. Subjectively it introduces aspects which some find distasteful, others do not.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff