Faster than an M5 for £25k

[Welshbeef]

Mike335i said:

As said twice already, I reckon £15k for a 2009 XFR with about 510hp and modify from there.

But the point made about not being able to use the power legally is also true I'm thinking the better question is what makes the best noise and feels fastest, whilst being useable as a mostly reliable daily, for less than £25k.

Best noise surely M156 C63 that’s low teens to enter plus it has C5 RS6 power levels and a much quicker gearbox meaning a quicker car

[J4CKO]

Or, just get an M5,

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-M5-4-4-auto-2012-12...

And the 3 grand left in the budget should cover this,

http://www.dmsautomotive.com/upgrades/bmw-m5-f10/

And then start saving up for tyres, brakes, legal representation, NIPS and laundry bills.

[ZX10R NIN]

J4CKO said:

Or, just get an M5,

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-M5-4-4-auto-2012-12...

And the 3 grand left in the budget should cover this,

http://www.dmsautomotive.com/upgrades/bmw-m5-f10/

And then start saving up for tyres, brakes, legal representation, NIPS and laundry bills.

Nice but I'd start with a CL600/S65 as a starting point:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[Welshbeef]

S65 is mental and no doubt all options ticked off too.

What a steal for £18k

[jakesmith]

Welshbeef said:

Best noise surely M156 C63 that’s low teens to enter plus it has C5 RS6 power levels and a much quicker gearbox meaning a quicker car

Do t think the NA c63 would get anywhere near an f10 m5 for pace and that’s the criteria

[Welshbeef]

jakesmith said:

Do t think the NA c63 would get anywhere near an f10 m5 for pace and that’s the criteria

I was replying to Mike who was agreeing that the performance cannot be used in anything but 1st and maybe 2nd Gear as such it’s sound isn’t as good as the 6.2v8 AMG and therefore is that a better buy

[ZX10R NIN]

jakesmith said:

Do t think the NA c63 would get anywhere near an f10 m5 for pace and that’s the criteria

The S65 wipes the floor with pretty much everything including the M5.

[luke1907]

Anyone considered a 5.0 xkr? With a remap they get to about 560bhp.

[Welshbeef]

luke1907 said:

Anyone considered a 5.0 xkr? With a remap they get to about 560bhp.

How does remapping a supercharged car increase its power? To increase “boost” you need to physically change the supercharger pulley

[Douglas Quaid]

luke1907 said:

Anyone considered a 5.0 xkr? With a remap they get to about 560bhp.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p4vzM4EWVDQ

[luke1907]

Welshbeef said:

luke1907 said:

Anyone considered a 5.0 xkr? With a remap they get to about 560bhp.

How does remapping a supercharged car increase its power? To increase “boost” you need to physically change the supercharger pulley

Admittedly I'm not familiar with the 5.0 JLR engine but I know that the 3.0 V6T (supercharged) s4 can be remapped for big power gains. Something to do with the stock waste pressure.

So a remap on some stock s/c engines is possible. From a quick Google search I've seen a few companies 'claim' 550-570 bhp out of the xkr from a remap alone.

Based on this I'd assume it's possible but not 100% sure.

[luke1907]

Douglas Quaid said:

luke1907 said:

Anyone considered a 5.0 xkr? With a remap they get to about 560bhp.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p4vzM4EWVDQ

This was basically over off of the line though. They crossed the line 1mph apart and I'd imagine that if both got an equal start there wouldn't be much in it at all.

Would like to see a rolling race between the two.

[Welshbeef]

luke1907 said:

This was basically over off of the line though. They crossed the line 1mph apart and I'd imagine that if both got an equal start there wouldn't be much in it at all.

Would like to see a rolling race between the two.

Isn’t the reality that the F10 M5 makes 600bhp out of the box not it’s claimed much lower number hence it kicks ass

[jakesmith]

luke1907 said:

Admittedly I'm not familiar with the 5.0 JLR engine but I know that the 3.0 V6T (supercharged) s4 can be remapped for big power gains. Something to do with the stock waste pressure.

So a remap on some stock s/c engines is possible. From a quick Google search I've seen a few companies 'claim' 550-570 bhp out of the xkr from a remap alone.

Based on this I'd assume it's possible but not 100% sure.

Different types of supercharging

V6T has a turbocharger essentially a turbine powered by exhaust gasses leaving the engine, which then forces more air into the intake and develops more power

What is known as supercharging operates mechanically with the rotation of the engine driving a pulley that is connected to a similar arrangement that forces more air into the intake

In fact in pure engineering terminology both methods would be known as ‘supercharging’ but the car industry calls the former ‘turbocharging’ and the latter ‘supercharging’ which is how 99.9% of people differentiate

Turbo charged engines can be remapped for significant power gains by increasing the pressure of gasses allowed from the turbo this is called ‘boost pressure’

Because supercharged engines are mechanically connected between the engine and supercharger, a remap is no more meaningful than on a NASP engine. As said before the way to improve power on supercharged engines is a smaller under drive pulley and then normal breathing mods like intake and exhaust.

This tuning turbo Cars is much easier as you just remap it for £300 to increase the turbo boost. I’ve had this done on every car I have had that has a turbo and the performance gains especially on the Golf GTi, are very significant

I’m not so sure the Mercedes V12 turbo lumps are as fast as people make out, I was looking at a v12 SL600 a few years ago and on paper it was only as fast as the Jag XKR 510. The engine is old and a F10 M5 is much newer and I’d imagine more efficient tech.

[ZX10R NIN]

Welshbeef said:

Isn’t the reality that the F10 M5 makes 600bhp out of the box not it’s claimed much lower number hence it kicks ass

Best I've seen on the dyno is 584 at the crank with the worst being 543 at the crank the best I've seen is the RS6/E63 579/586 at the crank (with the e63 S showing 603) respectively.

[Terminator X]

Niffty951 said:

So I just watched this clip:

https://youtu.be/a2qxaUyJj1E

..and it got me wondering, can you go faster than an M5 for under £25k and would you want to?

To clarify the last statement I mean if you buy a Ford mondeo and tune it to 900hp is it really going to cost less than the F10 M5 over 12months and 10,000 miles of running? My own experiences of highly modified cars suggest not.

I imagine a finance companies algorithm would agree.

And the 2019 M5 would batter all three of course

TX.

[Welshbeef]

ZX10R NIN said:

Best I've seen on the dyno is 584 at the crank with the worst being 543 at the crank the best I've seen is the RS6/E63 579/586 at the crank (with the e63 S showing 603) respectively.

In which case the DCT really is the point of difference.
Plus I guess the actual turbos.


When you tested them how did the torque curve look?

[Escy]

jakesmith said:

V6T has a turbocharger essentially a turbine powered by exhaust gasses leaving the engine, which then forces more air into the intake and develops more power

The Audi 3.0 V6T is supercharged, it's built into the inlet manifold.