RE: BMW M550i gets 530hp; 840i gets 340hp and RWD
Discussion
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Popped into bmw at the weekend and we noticed a brand new delivery miles standard M4 with over £17k knocked off.
£17k!
WTF is it with modern bmw pricing? Every car seems to be at least 20% overpriced so they can knock huge numbers off to get you a “deal”. Do people really fall for it?
No one pays outright for new cars anymore really so the headline price is just there to work out 48 monthly payments before people chuck them in for a new one. £17k!
WTF is it with modern bmw pricing? Every car seems to be at least 20% overpriced so they can knock huge numbers off to get you a “deal”. Do people really fall for it?
simonbamg said:
yep got that but why epic? fast saloon. fast. saloon.
If you are in the market for a fast estate, why would you possibly be excited about a fast saloon? Why would anyone get excited about any saloon for that matter, when the estates pretty much always look better, are far more practical with masses more luggage space, and well....... estates are just far cooler than saloons (and fast estates even more so!). Not all of us get turned on by an SUV you know - some of us still hanker for the consummate allrounder.... a fast estate! 
I never would have said this 10 years ago, but it's all getting a bit silly, isn't it?
I read an excellent article recently comparing an F430 with an F488. It didn't say it exactly, but the crux of it was that the 488 was simply too fast and too powerful to ever use it. Whereas the 430 could be used at much closer to it's limits, where all the fun happens, the 488 would be doing 150mph on a B road ending in prison or death.
What is the point of a 530bhp non M5? That's more power than nearly every M5 before it. Surely it's not going to be cheaper to run, insure, fuel etc than a full fat M5? It'll probably depreciate far quicker than an M5, which themselves are crippling in the first 3 years. If they're all sold as lease cars, which most are, BMW will be taking huge hits (or not, as we all know the RRP is a made up number)
Then 5-10 years down the line, when these things are in the sub £20k price bracket, you're gonna get burberry cap wearing tossers getting loans and they'll become motorway weapons of mass destruction.
It's all getting too much.
I read an excellent article recently comparing an F430 with an F488. It didn't say it exactly, but the crux of it was that the 488 was simply too fast and too powerful to ever use it. Whereas the 430 could be used at much closer to it's limits, where all the fun happens, the 488 would be doing 150mph on a B road ending in prison or death.
What is the point of a 530bhp non M5? That's more power than nearly every M5 before it. Surely it's not going to be cheaper to run, insure, fuel etc than a full fat M5? It'll probably depreciate far quicker than an M5, which themselves are crippling in the first 3 years. If they're all sold as lease cars, which most are, BMW will be taking huge hits (or not, as we all know the RRP is a made up number)
Then 5-10 years down the line, when these things are in the sub £20k price bracket, you're gonna get burberry cap wearing tossers getting loans and they'll become motorway weapons of mass destruction.
It's all getting too much.
ducnick said:
M550i touring would be perfect for me. I don't like the overly harsh set up for the more hyper focused saloons such as rs6 / AMG / M5 etc. Ride too firm, gearbox to snappy etc.
A estate 5 series with a softer ride, ZF 8HP, and comfort seats would be just about the perfect car. The diesels are excellent of course but when I had one, the thought of the same car with a petrol V8 was nirvana.
I think the current 540i more or less covers those bases. Whilst I like the idea of a V8, in the real world the 540 is more than fast enoughA estate 5 series with a softer ride, ZF 8HP, and comfort seats would be just about the perfect car. The diesels are excellent of course but when I had one, the thought of the same car with a petrol V8 was nirvana.
griffdude said:
If that M550i comes in an estate version it’ll be epic!
The press release specifically said 'sedan'; there's no reason they won't announce a Touring soon though.The full press release is here by the way: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/deta...
Plenty that PH doesn't mention.
PHMatt said:
I never would have said this 10 years ago, but it's all getting a bit silly, isn't it?
I read an excellent article recently comparing an F430 with an F488. It didn't say it exactly, but the crux of it was that the 488 was simply too fast and too powerful to ever use it. Whereas the 430 could be used at much closer to it's limits, where all the fun happens, the 488 would be doing 150mph on a B road ending in prison or death.
Back to basics ethos and less is more is nothing new with rapid road cars.I read an excellent article recently comparing an F430 with an F488. It didn't say it exactly, but the crux of it was that the 488 was simply too fast and too powerful to ever use it. Whereas the 430 could be used at much closer to it's limits, where all the fun happens, the 488 would be doing 150mph on a B road ending in prison or death.
But as expected many articles are written by the inexperienced simply to be radical and sell magazines.
The 488 actually loses little to the 458 in terms of driving involvement.
But there are other contemporary fast cars which offer far more challenge, skill, and driver involvement than these.
av185 said:
Yep same essentially chav customer base as those falling for the laughable never ending DFS furniture sales.
BMW need to focus on their rapidly declining reliability and obvious huge quality control issues as they are still the worst manufacturer by far.
Hilarious some still view them as a 'premium' brand.
C'mon AV, you are normally very insightful over on the Porsche pages...BMW need to focus on their rapidly declining reliability and obvious huge quality control issues as they are still the worst manufacturer by far.
Hilarious some still view them as a 'premium' brand.
A couple of points in no particular order:
- In their space the main competition is VAG / Mercedes - call that sector what you will.
- I've owned/run a number of BMW's over the last 30 years and reliability is vastly improved. I have also not had very little if anything go wrong in the last 200K+ miles of BMW ownership. Not something I can say for other brands of cars I have owned - Porsche/Ferrari/Volvo and Renault all spring to mind from recent purchases... I also don't add my name to the power/reliability surveys...
- Some of what I would deem the "non-critical" elements to the cars have seen cost cutting and optimising - I see this as a way to make more profits / keep up with the VAG / Mercedes powerhouses. In an ideal world I'd like all cars to be built to an engineering spec but in this day and age that is not possible.
- calling out demographics only cheapens the debate - if people can "afford" the car why can't they buy them?
f1ten said:
Agreed on price reductions- I would say all the mass producers are at it.
Apparently southern German franchisees had over ordered q4 last year so we’re offering 25% discounts on some models like basic 3 series and 5 series. All of this really depreciates the brand.
BMW is certainly not alone in this affliction - there is definitely a "whatever it takes" attitude to sell cars in a buyers market for their sector. Its certainly going to compress profits for the foreseeable future.Apparently southern German franchisees had over ordered q4 last year so we’re offering 25% discounts on some models like basic 3 series and 5 series. All of this really depreciates the brand.
PHMatt said:
Then 5-10 years down the line, when these things are in the sub £20k price bracket, you're gonna get burberry cap wearing tossers getting loans and they'll become motorway weapons of mass destruction.
It's all getting too much.
Are burberry-clad chavs still a thing? I've not seen one in at least a decade, nowadays they all look like extras from that semi-reality TV show about Chelsea round here, I don't think they'd want to be seen in an older car. Bright House, DFS and VAG finance, all about the mumph-lees for those folk. It's all getting too much.
Which leaves the sub-£20k bargains for the enthusiasts who are after owning a fantastic machine rather than a status symbol. Pretty sure this one will be on my shopping list in a few years, in estate guise.
BMW making the most of things before everything becomes hybrid / electric?
I really struggle to see the point in some of the models being made available to the UK market though and can see how utterly worthless a 550bhp non M barge of a car will be in 5-10 years time when road tax on such a vehicle will be £1k a year along with the other eyewatering running costs.- In a small country with an ever growing network of smart motorways and reduced speed limits I would need to be visiting mainland Europe on a regular basis to see its worth.
Will it really be a 'sub 20k bargain' if it costs 1/2 of its value per year just for average mileage (assuming being taxed into oblivion in the future, obviously horrendous fuel consumption, servicing etc etc)
As almost nobody actually 'buys' a car anymore the outright sale price is almost irrelevant and its the same with any brand, not just BMW - Recently calling around about a new motorbike the price reductions available from RRP just for asking are in excess of 10-15% alongside the offering of 0% finance.
I really struggle to see the point in some of the models being made available to the UK market though and can see how utterly worthless a 550bhp non M barge of a car will be in 5-10 years time when road tax on such a vehicle will be £1k a year along with the other eyewatering running costs.- In a small country with an ever growing network of smart motorways and reduced speed limits I would need to be visiting mainland Europe on a regular basis to see its worth.
Will it really be a 'sub 20k bargain' if it costs 1/2 of its value per year just for average mileage (assuming being taxed into oblivion in the future, obviously horrendous fuel consumption, servicing etc etc)
As almost nobody actually 'buys' a car anymore the outright sale price is almost irrelevant and its the same with any brand, not just BMW - Recently calling around about a new motorbike the price reductions available from RRP just for asking are in excess of 10-15% alongside the offering of 0% finance.
Edited by Rick1.8t on Monday 20th May 11:31
Rick1.8t said:
As almost nobody actually 'buys' a car anymore the outright sale price is almost irrelevant and its the same with any brand, not just BMW -
Apparently 9 in 10 new cars are financed:-https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk...
I use PCP as I like a new car every 3 years and prefer to know the risidual value if any.
Rick1.8t said:
BMW making the most of things before everything becomes hybrid / electric?
I really struggle to see the point in some of the models being made available to the UK market though and can see how utterly worthless a 550bhp non M barge of a car will be in 5-10 years time when road tax on such a vehicle will be £1k a year along with the other eyewatering running costs.- In a small country with an ever growing network of smart motorways and reduced speed limits I would need to be visiting mainland Europe on a regular basis to see its worth.
Will it really be a 'sub 20k bargain' if it costs 1/2 of its value per year just for average mileage (assuming being taxed into oblivion in the future, obviously horrendous fuel consumption, servicing etc etc)
As almost nobody actually 'buys' a car anymore the outright sale price is almost irrelevant and its the same with any brand, not just BMW - Recently calling around about a new motorbike the price reductions available from RRP just for asking are in excess of 10-15% alongside the offering of 0% finance.
I hear this “only makes sense in Europe” argument a lot but don’t really get it.I really struggle to see the point in some of the models being made available to the UK market though and can see how utterly worthless a 550bhp non M barge of a car will be in 5-10 years time when road tax on such a vehicle will be £1k a year along with the other eyewatering running costs.- In a small country with an ever growing network of smart motorways and reduced speed limits I would need to be visiting mainland Europe on a regular basis to see its worth.
Will it really be a 'sub 20k bargain' if it costs 1/2 of its value per year just for average mileage (assuming being taxed into oblivion in the future, obviously horrendous fuel consumption, servicing etc etc)
As almost nobody actually 'buys' a car anymore the outright sale price is almost irrelevant and its the same with any brand, not just BMW - Recently calling around about a new motorbike the price reductions available from RRP just for asking are in excess of 10-15% alongside the offering of 0% finance.
Many European countries pay far more tax than we do. A guy I worked with in NL was paying more on his 520d than I did on my M5 when we had the convo.
The roads are often just as congested and full of road works. Last time I drove across Germany any time I gained by cruising at 150mph was lost to sitting in stationary traffic.
I am far more respectful of French/Belgian/German speed limits because I know they are actually policed with far higher punishment stakes.
I bet there’s a lot of people sat in the Low Countries, Germany, Switzerland and the more populated parts of France having the same conversation about powerful cars and saying “the only really make sense in rural England/Wales/Scotland”.
av185 said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Popped into bmw at the weekend and we noticed a brand new delivery miles standard M4 with over £17k knocked off.
£17k!
WTF is it with modern bmw pricing? Every car seems to be at least 20% overpriced so they can knock huge numbers off to get you a “deal”. Do people really fall for it?
Yep same essentially chav customer base as those falling for the laughable never ending DFS furniture sales.£17k!
WTF is it with modern bmw pricing? Every car seems to be at least 20% overpriced so they can knock huge numbers off to get you a “deal”. Do people really fall for it?
BMW need to focus on their rapidly declining reliability and obvious huge quality control issues as they are still the worst manufacturer by far.
Hilarious some still view them as a 'premium' brand.
theboss said:
I hear this “only makes sense in Europe” argument a lot but don’t really get it.
Many European countries pay far more tax than we do. A guy I worked with in NL was paying more on his 520d than I did on my M5 when we had the convo.
The roads are often just as congested and full of road works. Last time I drove across Germany any time I gained by cruising at 150mph was lost to sitting in stationary traffic.
I am far more respectful of French/Belgian/German speed limits because I know they are actually policed with far higher punishment stakes.
I bet there’s a lot of people sat in the Low Countries, Germany, Switzerland and the more populated parts of France having the same conversation about powerful cars and saying “the only really make sense in rural England/Wales/Scotland”.
Its not about speed limits or road tax in Europe, what I mean is I would need to be doing moon miles to want to have this kind of car to get the benefits of the huge power / comfort available, not do my usual 10 mile commute down an A road or days out that never add up to much more than a hundred miles each way and could realistically be comfortably done in a Nissan Micra - The few times I have driven through mainland Europe (800 miles or so in a day) have allowed me to sit on the motorway with a decent amount of space around me and munch up the miles.Many European countries pay far more tax than we do. A guy I worked with in NL was paying more on his 520d than I did on my M5 when we had the convo.
The roads are often just as congested and full of road works. Last time I drove across Germany any time I gained by cruising at 150mph was lost to sitting in stationary traffic.
I am far more respectful of French/Belgian/German speed limits because I know they are actually policed with far higher punishment stakes.
I bet there’s a lot of people sat in the Low Countries, Germany, Switzerland and the more populated parts of France having the same conversation about powerful cars and saying “the only really make sense in rural England/Wales/Scotland”.
Why would a 550bhp barge make sense in rural England? If you wanted something for the A and B roads surely an M3 / M4 etc would be a much more exciting choice and at least it wont be completely un-wanted when its done 100k miles, is worth 20% of its new price and costs a fortune to tax and run.
If you can afford to run one as a new / nearly new car you wont care anyway and I am sure it will be a great thing to own as a fast / comfy family barge - I am just not convinced a soul outside of the pistonheads forum will want to bank-roll a 5-10 year old one in an increasingly enviro-centric country.
Edited by Rick1.8t on Monday 20th May 12:25
Rick1.8t said:
Its not about speed limits or road tax in Europe, what I mean is I would need to be doing moon miles to want to have this kind of car to get the benefits of the huge power / comfort available, not do my usual 10 mile commute down an A road or days out that never add up to much more than a hundred miles each way and could realistically be comfortably done in a Nissan Micra - The few times I have driven through mainland Europe (800 miles or so in a day) have allowed me to sit on the motorway with a decent amount of space around me and munch up the miles.
Why would a 550bhp barge make sense in rural England? If you wanted something for the A and B roads surely an M3 / M4 etc would be a much more exciting choice and at least it wont be completely un-wanted when its done 100k miles, is worth 20% of its new price and costs a fortune to tax and run.
If you can afford to run one as a new / nearly new car you wont care anyway and I am sure it will be a great thing to own as a fast / comfy family barge - I am just not convinced a soul outside of the pistonheads forum will want to bank-roll a 5-10 year old one in an increasingly enviro-centric country.
These cars do make sense in the rural UK when you want to cover lots of ground quickly and comfortably and also have a little bit of fun in the process.Why would a 550bhp barge make sense in rural England? If you wanted something for the A and B roads surely an M3 / M4 etc would be a much more exciting choice and at least it wont be completely un-wanted when its done 100k miles, is worth 20% of its new price and costs a fortune to tax and run.
If you can afford to run one as a new / nearly new car you wont care anyway and I am sure it will be a great thing to own as a fast / comfy family barge - I am just not convinced a soul outside of the pistonheads forum will want to bank-roll a 5-10 year old one in an increasingly enviro-centric country.
Edited by Rick1.8t on Monday 20th May 12:25
I drive 800 miles in a day across Europe very rarely, but I drive 200-300 miles in a day across the UK very frequently (as in at least once a week and sometimes 5 days a week). A powerful barge is a pleasure in both scenarios.
I couldn’t even imagine driving 200+ miles a day in a Nissan Micra unless it was a genuine emergency.
Edited by theboss on Monday 20th May 12:35
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