RE: TRD goes to town on new Supra
Discussion
Hot Knife said:
Leon R said:
Not sure that is actually true, the most powerful version of it had like 320hp which is near enough what the offerings from Mitsubishi, Mazda, Nissan ect had.
Well it was a Japanese translation of a sports car and at the time 320HP was considered a lot for someone like that.Put it perspective, the MX5 you compare it with had 128HP. It was a totally different car.
The problem is with the exception of the 370Z all of the competitors are gone, I know the GTR and the NSX are still around but they have moved up a class and are more than double the cost of the predecessors.
Leon R said:
Hot Knife said:
Leon R said:
That logic only makes sense if power leaps make the car better.
Look at the MX5.
but the MX5 was never intended as a HP stonker. The Supra was. Now it's...well I don't know what it is, a weak toyota sporty coupe. That's why people are disappointed.Look at the MX5.
The MX5 hasn't taken a huge dump on its heritage, which is why there's no one criticising it.
The Japanese really have lost the plot. Even when they get the mechanicals right they make it look like the Civic Type R. One things for certain. 90's and 2000's Japanese stuff isn't going to be getting any cheaper any time soon.
Leon R said:
If you compared a 2019 MX5 to this Supra I am pretty sure that it is still a totally different car.
The problem is with the exception of the 370Z all of the competitors are gone, I know the GTR and the NSX are still around but they have moved up a class and are more than double the cost of the predecessors.
You see I would say it's not so much they've moved up a class, as the Supra has come down, that's the issue for many. The GTR and NSX are it's natural rivals, not a 370Z.The problem is with the exception of the 370Z all of the competitors are gone, I know the GTR and the NSX are still around but they have moved up a class and are more than double the cost of the predecessors.
90's there are loads of RX7, GTR/300ZX, NSX, GTO and Supra battles all trying to out do each other all around the coat tails of the top Ferrari/Porsche's of the time. R35 was the same when it was released the new NSX I presume is too? the Supra has come down to the mid range. So yes the price has come down too and it's a genuinely quick car but it's definitely dropped down the performance ranking position compared to 1993.
They lost me entirely with this when I saw the walkaround that Doug DeMuro did and pointed out all the places it _could_ have been a better car, but they decided not to. Not just "we didn't want the expense" but "we engineered in the spaces for this, thus incurring 99% of the expense, but then left it out so you have to buy aftermarket parts".
I just hate that. It's the car equivalent of getting screwed on microtransactions. Yeah, sure the base game is only 19.99, but then you'll be wanting the day 1 DLC for another 5.99 and the post credits epilogue dlc for another 5.99 and then the character customization sets (4 for 2.99 each). No. No no no. Put the damn strut braces in from the factory. You clearly intended for them to be there, or you wouldn't have already fitted the attachment points.
They knew it could have been better, but they held back in order to nickel-and-dime you on extras.
I just hate that. It's the car equivalent of getting screwed on microtransactions. Yeah, sure the base game is only 19.99, but then you'll be wanting the day 1 DLC for another 5.99 and the post credits epilogue dlc for another 5.99 and then the character customization sets (4 for 2.99 each). No. No no no. Put the damn strut braces in from the factory. You clearly intended for them to be there, or you wouldn't have already fitted the attachment points.
They knew it could have been better, but they held back in order to nickel-and-dime you on extras.
V10leptoquark said:
The FT-01 was a fresh looking car, the Supra MkV production model however just becomes more ugly each time I see it no matter what is thrown on to the exterior.
As mentioned by some, I also ditest fake ducts and vents, its nothing more than an insult to anyone who is a car enthusiast and its manufacturers trying desperately to give their product some shape or 'flair' due to the fact that the general exterior has been messed up by the finance department constraints.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but each time I watch videos of the cabin when the car is driven, is that BMW's stock engine sound being played through the speakers (as is the case with the M2 and M4) ?
You're wrong.As mentioned by some, I also ditest fake ducts and vents, its nothing more than an insult to anyone who is a car enthusiast and its manufacturers trying desperately to give their product some shape or 'flair' due to the fact that the general exterior has been messed up by the finance department constraints.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but each time I watch videos of the cabin when the car is driven, is that BMW's stock engine sound being played through the speakers (as is the case with the M2 and M4) ?
It's "detest", and it's not an insult to car enthusiasts.
So you don't like it, that's fine, but stop with all the histrionics.
Scootersp said:
Leon R said:
If you compared a 2019 MX5 to this Supra I am pretty sure that it is still a totally different car.
The problem is with the exception of the 370Z all of the competitors are gone, I know the GTR and the NSX are still around but they have moved up a class and are more than double the cost of the predecessors.
You see I would say it's not so much they've moved up a class, as the Supra has come down, that's the issue for many. The GTR and NSX are it's natural rivals, not a 370Z.The problem is with the exception of the 370Z all of the competitors are gone, I know the GTR and the NSX are still around but they have moved up a class and are more than double the cost of the predecessors.
90's there are loads of RX7, GTR/300ZX, NSX, GTO and Supra battles all trying to out do each other all around the coat tails of the top Ferrari/Porsche's of the time. R35 was the same when it was released the new NSX I presume is too? the Supra has come down to the mid range. So yes the price has come down too and it's a genuinely quick car but it's definitely dropped down the performance ranking position compared to 1993.
I was never a Supra fan and this one has questionable looks (although I think a wide mouth front bumper would help it a lot) and is auto only but I personally would rather see more cars in this sector than more big power expensive monsters.
Edited by Leon R on Tuesday 21st May 14:34
keirik said:
You're wrong.
It's "detest", and it's not an insult to car enthusiasts.
So you don't like it, that's fine, but stop with all the histrionics.
Haha, a fakery fan.It's "detest", and it's not an insult to car enthusiasts.
So you don't like it, that's fine, but stop with all the histrionics.
So there is one on PH who supports all that sort of bull$hyte. Good for you.
I like histrionics by the way so I'll gloss over your demand; but looks like I'm going to be annoying you if you choose to delve in to my replies.
Scootersp said:
Leon R said:
If you compared a 2019 MX5 to this Supra I am pretty sure that it is still a totally different car.
The problem is with the exception of the 370Z all of the competitors are gone, I know the GTR and the NSX are still around but they have moved up a class and are more than double the cost of the predecessors.
You see I would say it's not so much they've moved up a class, as the Supra has come down, that's the issue for many. The GTR and NSX are it's natural rivals, not a 370Z.The problem is with the exception of the 370Z all of the competitors are gone, I know the GTR and the NSX are still around but they have moved up a class and are more than double the cost of the predecessors.
90's there are loads of RX7, GTR/300ZX, NSX, GTO and Supra battles all trying to out do each other all around the coat tails of the top Ferrari/Porsche's of the time. R35 was the same when it was released the new NSX I presume is too? the Supra has come down to the mid range. So yes the price has come down too and it's a genuinely quick car but it's definitely dropped down the performance ranking position compared to 1993.
For me it is now pitched against, unsurprisingly, higher powered Z4's, BMW 240i, M2, Audi TT, A45 AMG, and anything that isnt a sensible purchase like an SUV or crossover, even then it may be an alternative, as it depends on whether it grabs anyone and they can cope with 2 seats.
Not everyone is a car person, and the reviews say its pretty easy to live with day to day.
The list price is a bit of a sticking point but I would imagine, like with BMW's there will be some pretty good discounts after the initial period and competitive lease/PCP deals where its more down to the deposit and monthly payment, if its £2500 down and say £399 inc vat a month then that may win some friends
I think it is marketing b
ks to release a 53K car and say you've left it as it is deliberately for tuners...
I think it is pointless to add carbon fibre tat that actually only adds weight to the car...
However, I'm pleased they've released a new car but it does seem a bit half-arsed for the fans who wanted to buy a finished Supra.
I'm looking forward to seeing one in the flesh. I was never a fan of the original supra- it was always more Jordan than Christie Brinkleyfor me (showing my age) so I was never their target market but I can see what some of their buyers might be looking for.
Counting the days until I'm overtaken by one of these with a massive bodykit and 600HP!
ks to release a 53K car and say you've left it as it is deliberately for tuners...I think it is pointless to add carbon fibre tat that actually only adds weight to the car...
However, I'm pleased they've released a new car but it does seem a bit half-arsed for the fans who wanted to buy a finished Supra.
I'm looking forward to seeing one in the flesh. I was never a fan of the original supra- it was always more Jordan than Christie Brinkleyfor me (showing my age) so I was never their target market but I can see what some of their buyers might be looking for.
Counting the days until I'm overtaken by one of these with a massive bodykit and 600HP!
Leon R said:
Interesting that it is seen as a class step down when you consider the stats which remain pretty faithful to the Mk4 especially when compared to the NSX and the GTR which have both become significantly larger and heavier than the cars that came before them.
I was never a Supra fan and this one has questionable looks (although I think a wide mouth front bumper would help it a lot) and is auto only but I personally would rather see more cars in this sector than more big power expensive monsters.
I don't disagree with your last point, £80-120K cars aren't really helpful to us mere mortals!I was never a Supra fan and this one has questionable looks (although I think a wide mouth front bumper would help it a lot) and is auto only but I personally would rather see more cars in this sector than more big power expensive monsters.
Edited by Leon R on Tuesday 21st May 14:34
But power and price point were similar for all these cars in the 90's and now the Supra is way below the other two (R35 isn't even that recent!) so a step down seems reasonable to state to me?
It's a step down re it's market position, far more cars are faster and more expensive than it, compared to the 90's, it's been pitched lower, a good car it seems (better than the Mkiv) but undisputedly a class step down in the current era?
theJT said:
They knew it could have been better, but they held back in order to nickel-and-dime you on extras.
OR it could be seen as they're giving the end user the choice what they do with certain things, instead of selling it to you with a huge wing on the back they make it easy to add one. You only need to open up extra brake cooling ducts if you decide to go with a BBK for track use etc etc. Otherwise they stay closed and don't contribute to drag uneccessarily. It's following on from the same philosophy that sold a 'super-base' spec GT86 (JDM only) for a super-low price with unpainted bumpers and steel wheels fitted from factory; the reasoning being that the first thing the owner would do would be fit custom aftermarket alloys and aero kit, so why pay extra for OEM kit that's going to get taken off and stored or binned?
J4CKO said:
Natural rivals ?
For me it is now pitched against, unsurprisingly, higher powered Z4's, BMW 240i, M2, Audi TT, A45 AMG, and anything that isnt a sensible purchase like an SUV or crossover, even then it may be an alternative, as it depends on whether it grabs anyone and they can cope with 2 seats.
Not everyone is a car person, and the reviews say its pretty easy to live with day to day.
Behold, the 2020 Toyota For me it is now pitched against, unsurprisingly, higher powered Z4's, BMW 240i, M2, Audi TT, A45 AMG, and anything that isnt a sensible purchase like an SUV or crossover, even then it may be an alternative, as it depends on whether it grabs anyone and they can cope with 2 seats.
Not everyone is a car person, and the reviews say its pretty easy to live with day to day.
theJT said:
They knew it could have been better, but they held back in order to nickel-and-dime you on extras.
That's pretty much how the world is these days, cut corners just enough to avoid litigation yet maximise margin.In the late 80s, early 90s, the Japanese manufacturers were willing to make a loss on their halo cars, the original NSX was 'underpriced' for the effort it took to build the thing in those relative small numbers.
The Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo, active aero, 4WD, 4WS, active exhaust, electronically adaptive suspension, for approx £27k back in 1991 which is £56k in today's money - the same for a Supra GR?
Go figure....
Edited by TwinExit on Tuesday 21st May 17:03
J4CKO said:
Natural rivals ?
For me it is now pitched against..........
and that simply is my point in defense of those (I don't care so much) that say it's a let down for a 'Supra', it's now pitched at a different level, has different rivals/price point than it's old sparing partners.For me it is now pitched against..........
So to some it's simply another choice in the 'x' £'s bracket to others it's a major cop out by a manufacturer who could afford to and has history of going a bit left field/all out?
Hot Knife said:
20HP in 23 years?
BMW has increased the M5's Horsepower from 335 to 617 in the same period.
That's more clouds than sunshine.
Course it could have more, but that BMW had evolved from a straight six to a twin turbo V8. This is trying to retsi the same formula.BMW has increased the M5's Horsepower from 335 to 617 in the same period.
That's more clouds than sunshine.
This isn't a super car, it is a small GT coupé, like previous Supras. It competes nicely with Z4 / Cayman / 370z et al. 340hp is about right for the car, especially one that conforms to legislation and can be very efficient.
Save the big power for the tuners, like the original Supra. It doesn't need more power stock.
Scootersp said:
J4CKO said:
Natural rivals ?
For me it is now pitched against..........
and that simply is my point in defense of those (I don't care so much) that say it's a let down for a 'Supra', it's now pitched at a different level, has different rivals/price point than it's old sparing partners.For me it is now pitched against..........
So to some it's simply another choice in the 'x' £'s bracket to others it's a major cop out by a manufacturer who could afford to and has history of going a bit left field/all out?
Even if the new Supra had been nearer to the styling of the Mk4 and had 550 bhp with a 3JZ engine, there would be plenty of other stuff to grumble about
"90k for a bloody Toyota"
"Its only 2 wheel drive"
"Its four wheel drive, that breaks the space time continuum"
"May as well get a GTR"
"May as well get a 911"
"Needs to be 700 bhp"
"Its too heavy"
"No diesel model"
"Only seats 2"
"Doesnt appear to have time travel capabilities"
And even if it was pretty well liked, no f
ker would buy it anyway as there are lots of choices and most of us dont have 80 grand spare to lavish on a car anyway and not many that do buy a Toyota. Could have perhaps gone for 400 odd bhp and a bit less styled but its early days. Price wise I suspect after the initial few months, a more realstic pricing structure will emerge.GT86 was hailed as the ultimate drivers car, not enough power despite everyone declaring that is what was needed.
Car enthusiasts are a bit like cats that stand miaowing by the door until you open it and they look at you like you like you are mental.
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