RE: Team Dynamics reveals 400hp Civic Type R
Discussion
Jon_S_Rally said:
Visually, perhaps yes.
However, while a Golf R/S3/Leon Cupra would take you out for a decent meal, offer you acceptable company and a nice glass of wine, before making sure you were dropped safely home by 11pm, the Civic would be pouring Jaeger bombs and tequila down your throat in Wetherspoons, have you dancing on the bar of a dingy nightclub with a sticky floor, before helping you to stuff a dirty kebab, persuading you to crash a random house party, videoing you snorting coke off a hooker's arse, then drawing penises on your face with a permanent marker after you've passed out.
One offers quite a pleasant, but ultimately forgettable evening, while the other is one you'll remember 25 years later. I spent a year driving a respectable German hot hatch and, while it was very good, it's not the car I'd be telling my grand kids about.
Those were the days at Team Dynamics However, while a Golf R/S3/Leon Cupra would take you out for a decent meal, offer you acceptable company and a nice glass of wine, before making sure you were dropped safely home by 11pm, the Civic would be pouring Jaeger bombs and tequila down your throat in Wetherspoons, have you dancing on the bar of a dingy nightclub with a sticky floor, before helping you to stuff a dirty kebab, persuading you to crash a random house party, videoing you snorting coke off a hooker's arse, then drawing penises on your face with a permanent marker after you've passed out.
One offers quite a pleasant, but ultimately forgettable evening, while the other is one you'll remember 25 years later. I spent a year driving a respectable German hot hatch and, while it was very good, it's not the car I'd be telling my grand kids about.
aka_kerrly said:
Article says: Most notably, it has modified the ECU (Superchips), the induction system (ITG), intercooler (PWR, sports cat (Dream) and exhaust (Scorpion), yielding a claimed 25 per cent improvement in performance"
What I find sad is that PH members see this list of parts and still waffle on about Halfords specials. I think those of you who can't appreciate modified cars should pipe down and go and read a thread about a something else.
I think the “Halfords” accusations aren’t because it’s a modified car, they’re because it’s just modified by buying a load of off the shelf parts. I’d be much more impressed by it if it was a development of specifically fabricated parts based on a race team’s experience, rather than them just picking up a catalogue and ordering some bits.What I find sad is that PH members see this list of parts and still waffle on about Halfords specials. I think those of you who can't appreciate modified cars should pipe down and go and read a thread about a something else.
eliot said:
HumanSteamroller said:
True, but visually this car is the equivalent of mouthwash flavour ice cream, shake 'n' vac flavour crisps, and trying to bend it round and stuff it into your own bum.
Nearly had a mouth/tea/keyboard interface issue then..A flawless contribution from HumanSteamroller.
yonex said:
Not only is it an epic car, this is good news for the Atom 4 
As for aesthetics, I’d argue it’s no better or worse than the Renault or A45. Manufactures make something different, PH moans, they also moan a lot about how bland a Golf is.
For all those who like their cars to have all the dynamic joy of a dying donkey, there is the Audi RS3 on the other thread.As for aesthetics, I’d argue it’s no better or worse than the Renault or A45. Manufactures make something different, PH moans, they also moan a lot about how bland a Golf is.
Which does have lots of supporters on here....
Edited by SidewaysSi on Friday 24th May 08:31
I personally think anyone over the age of 25 would look ridiculous driving this around, Just my opinion off course. I used to be a huge Honda fan of the days of the EK9, DC2, S2000, ATR and Prelude but looking at this hideous thing makes me wonder where has the subtle nature that used to dominate performance Hondas has gone. Normally cars grow on me more I see it, but this and the previous FK2 still looks absolutely horrid and reminds me a bit of the old Max power days.
I do have to giggle at how much the looks of this car divide people. I'm sure it was similar when the Sierra Cosworth, Escort Cosworth and big-winged Impreza and Evo arrived on the scene. In a way, the Civic is as close as we're going to get to those cars. They have become iconic, and I suspect the Civic is a car that might be better appreciated in the future.
Also have to smile at how so many PH folk slate a car like this, but wax lyrical over the M135i/M140i which, other than a nice engine, are widely regarded as being deeply flawed. I wonder how people would feel about the Type-R if it had a BMW badge on it?
Also have to smile at how so many PH folk slate a car like this, but wax lyrical over the M135i/M140i which, other than a nice engine, are widely regarded as being deeply flawed. I wonder how people would feel about the Type-R if it had a BMW badge on it?
Dblue said:
You know something guys, I 've had a pretty big collection of great performance cars over the years but I get nothing but positive, sometimes
gushing appreciation of my FK8
I know what those that don't like it mean but it looks special.
It does make me laugh when proponents of Golf Rs or M140i sneer. They look just like thousands of cooking diesel versions of their respective ranges. You need to be pretty clued up to know it's actually the quick one.
Just been buzzed along a favourite but busy bit of "A" road by a guy in Golf R who wanted to "play" - But in the low sun I honestly mistook it for a TDi
But if it was a quiet early morning I know which car I'd prefer to be in
.
That was my biggest issue with my Golf R in many ways. It was a fantastic car when looked at subjectively, but it just lacked anything to mark it out as being genuinely special. It didn't look that different to a GTD and then, part way through having mine, the R-Line appeared, which looked almost identical to my R, save for the wheels and exhausts. You can't knock VW for playing it safe in a way, as they have shifted loads of them, but it just lacked those final few percent for me. The Megane that replaced my Golf wasn't ultimately as quick I suspect, but it felt 100x more special.gushing appreciation of my FK8
I know what those that don't like it mean but it looks special.
It does make me laugh when proponents of Golf Rs or M140i sneer. They look just like thousands of cooking diesel versions of their respective ranges. You need to be pretty clued up to know it's actually the quick one.
Just been buzzed along a favourite but busy bit of "A" road by a guy in Golf R who wanted to "play" - But in the low sun I honestly mistook it for a TDi
But if it was a quiet early morning I know which car I'd prefer to be in
.
Shuthan_S5 said:
I personally think anyone over the age of 25 would look ridiculous driving this around, Just my opinion off course. I used to be a huge Honda fan of the days of the EK9, DC2, S2000, ATR and Prelude but looking at this hideous thing makes me wonder where has the subtle nature that used to dominate performance Hondas has gone. Normally cars grow on me more I see it, but this and the previous FK2 still looks absolutely horrid and reminds me a bit of the old Max power days.
Odd really, as the vast majority of buyers will be over 25. I thought, as a Honda fan, you'd be happy they were finally producing some cars with some torque Jon_S_Rally said:
Odd really, as the vast majority of buyers will be over 25. I thought, as a Honda fan, you'd be happy they were finally producing some cars with some torque
I will correct you by saying 'past' Honda fan, Torque never bothered me when I had Type-Rs as they were all about revs and none were daily drivers for me to worry about that. Yes majority will be over 25 as I have 2 mates who have FK8's and they know my opinion on it. Shuthan_S5 said:
I will correct you by saying 'past' Honda fan, Torque never bothered me when I had Type-Rs as they were all about revs and none were daily drivers for me to worry about that. Yes majority will be over 25 as I have 2 mates who have FK8's and they know my opinion on it.
That's part of why they died I suspect. While a revvy car can be great fun, on the road, as a daily, it's just plain irritating to your average buyer. And Honda were never going to keep up with the opposition if they didn't adopt turbocharging. That's before we even get to the emissions business, which is the most dominant factor of all.While the looks of the FK2 and FK8 are extreme compared to the majority of rivals, I personally think it's excellent that Honda have gone their own way and are offering something different. The cars are unashamedly all about performance and being as wild as they could get away with. While it isn't quite what fast Hondas have traditionally been about (at least in terms of styling), it is quite a nice antidote to the very staid German alternatives, especially as Ford have toned things down a bit and Mitsubishi/Subaru have given up on making cars for people under 70.
aka_kerrly said:
Article says:
What I find sad is that PH members see this list of parts and still waffle on about Halfords specials. I think those of you who can't appreciate modified cars should pipe down and go and read a thread about a something else.
I think this model really does fit into the looks like a Halfords special category - this gen CTR look ridiculous - same way the previous gen Focus RS looked silly.What I find sad is that PH members see this list of parts and still waffle on about Halfords specials. I think those of you who can't appreciate modified cars should pipe down and go and read a thread about a something else.
I used to drive things like Sierra and Escort Cosworth and Evo’s 6/8/9 - they looked purposeful as the looks were dictated by motorsport.
To me the new CTR looks like a bunch of teenagers were let lose at the design stage it’s hideous and none of it has any link to motorsport so it’s very hard to justify the extreme styling - the people who can afford one (older folks) look totally out of place when you see one out on the road.
400 bhp in a fwd is this the most power yet seen in a FWD from a manufacturer?
Jon_S_Rally said:
That's part of why they died I suspect. While a revvy car can be great fun, on the road, as a daily, it's just plain irritating to your average buyer. And Honda were never going to keep up with the opposition if they didn't adopt turbocharging. That's before we even get to the emissions business, which is the most dominant factor of all.
While the looks of the FK2 and FK8 are extreme compared to the majority of rivals, I personally think it's excellent that Honda have gone their own way and are offering something different. The cars are unashamedly all about performance and being as wild as they could get away with. While it isn't quite what fast Hondas have traditionally been about (at least in terms of styling), it is quite a nice antidote to the very staid German alternatives, especially as Ford have toned things down a bit and Mitsubishi/Subaru have given up on making cars for people under 70.
I haven't got an issue on them going turbo on their cars, I understand they have to now, but I have never liked shouty styling with silly spoilers and fake arch vents on any car and the interior is not a nice place to be either, plus bearing in mind its still a FWD car so no idea why you need a silly spoiler on it. If I had to pick a current hot hatch, it would be the S3 or Golf R as its subtle, nicer interior and has identical pace to the CTR. I do understand people like to maybe stand out with this sort of styling but its not for me and don't think the styling will ever grow on me either. They are really capable cars though, got to give it that. While the looks of the FK2 and FK8 are extreme compared to the majority of rivals, I personally think it's excellent that Honda have gone their own way and are offering something different. The cars are unashamedly all about performance and being as wild as they could get away with. While it isn't quite what fast Hondas have traditionally been about (at least in terms of styling), it is quite a nice antidote to the very staid German alternatives, especially as Ford have toned things down a bit and Mitsubishi/Subaru have given up on making cars for people under 70.
Shuthan_S5 said:
I personally think anyone over the age of 25 would look ridiculous driving this around, Just my opinion off course. I used to be a huge Honda fan of the days of the EK9, DC2, S2000, ATR and Prelude but looking at this hideous thing makes me wonder where has the subtle nature that used to dominate performance Hondas has gone. Normally cars grow on me more I see it, but this and the previous FK2 still looks absolutely horrid and reminds me a bit of the old Max power days.
I really ought to agree with that statement, but I don't entirely.Whilst I love the anonymity/capability ratio of my Leg End, I can really see the appeal of the current FK8. Like many Hondas, the design has inexplicably grown on me. Many of its rivals are very ugly and very daft and it's successfully outdone them all.
At 56, I intend to grow old disgracefully. Perhaps it's that.
rallycross said:
I think this model really does fit into the looks like a Halfords special category - this gen CTR look ridiculous - same way the previous gen Focus RS looked silly.
I used to drive things like Sierra and Escort Cosworth and Evo’s 6/8/9 - they looked purposeful as the looks were dictated by motorsport.
To me the new CTR looks like a bunch of teenagers were let lose at the design stage it’s hideous and none of it has any link to motorsport so it’s very hard to justify the extreme styling - the people who can afford one (older folks) look totally out of place when you see one out on the road.
400 bhp in a fwd is this the most power yet seen in a FWD from a manufacturer?
The Halfords comparison is an odd one really, as Halfords don't actually sell big spoilers or wide-arch body kits I used to drive things like Sierra and Escort Cosworth and Evo’s 6/8/9 - they looked purposeful as the looks were dictated by motorsport.
To me the new CTR looks like a bunch of teenagers were let lose at the design stage it’s hideous and none of it has any link to motorsport so it’s very hard to justify the extreme styling - the people who can afford one (older folks) look totally out of place when you see one out on the road.
400 bhp in a fwd is this the most power yet seen in a FWD from a manufacturer?
Isn't one of the big advertising points of the Type-R that the aerodynamic add-ons are functional? So, while it doesn't have a link to motorsport, it's there for a reason, so surely the justification is the same?
As for the most powerful FWD car, does that crown still live with the MK2 Focus RS500 at 350PS?
Shuthan_S5 said:
I haven't got an issue on them going turbo on their cars, I understand they have to now, but I have never liked shouty styling with silly spoilers and fake arch vents on any car and the interior is not a nice place to be either, plus bearing in mind its still a FWD car so no idea why you need a silly spoiler on it. If I had to pick a current hot hatch, it would be the S3 or Golf R as its subtle, nicer interior and has identical pace to the CTR. I do understand people like to maybe stand out with this sort of styling but its not for me and don't think the styling will ever grow on me either. They are really capable cars though, got to give it that.
You'd better start ringing round the BTCC and TCR teams to tell them to take the big silly spoilers off their FWD cars The problem with the cars you mention is that, while they are very capable, they are also quite dull to drive compared to the more focused options. I've not driven the FK8, but I have driven an FK2, and that was a much more interesting car to drive than the Golf R. I absolutely get that big wings aren't for everyone though. That's where the Megane 3 R.S. worked so well really. The styling was relatively subtle, but it was sharp as a razor to drive. In this segment, the Civic now seems to be the only really sharp option by most accounts. Maybe the new Focus ST will give people a great-to-drive-but-subtle-to-look-at option.Black S2K said:
I really ought to agree with that statement, but I don't entirely.
Whilst I love the anonymity/capability ratio of my Leg End, I can really see the appeal of the current FK8. Like many Hondas, the design has inexplicably grown on me. Many of its rivals are very ugly and very daft and it's successfully outdone them all.
At 56, I intend to grow old disgracefully. Perhaps it's that.
Good on you.Whilst I love the anonymity/capability ratio of my Leg End, I can really see the appeal of the current FK8. Like many Hondas, the design has inexplicably grown on me. Many of its rivals are very ugly and very daft and it's successfully outdone them all.
At 56, I intend to grow old disgracefully. Perhaps it's that.
All this "I couldn't drive that at my age" business is painfully dull. It's sad that people worry so much about what other people think of them that they'd rather have something worse in order to avoid being judged by people that they don't know and will likely never even speak to.
Jon_S_Rally said:
Good on you.
All this "I couldn't drive that at my age" business is painfully dull. It's sad that people worry so much about what other people think of them that they'd rather have something worse in order to avoid being judged by people that they don't know and will likely never even speak to.
I have driven an S3 and I would say that is not dull, but people listen too much to what the media think than take the car down a nice road and witness it for themselves. I am just saying that for a car that has just over 300BHP, it does not need to look outrageous, its not a Lamborghini at the end of the day. It is like Honda wanted to be noticed in the hot hatch market and went mad with putting all sorts on the car. No other hot hatch has silly styling like that and most of them produce more power than the CTR.All this "I couldn't drive that at my age" business is painfully dull. It's sad that people worry so much about what other people think of them that they'd rather have something worse in order to avoid being judged by people that they don't know and will likely never even speak to.
Oh and I don't care about what other people think, I just couldn't stand to look at it every day I come out of my house, it is that ugly to me, and that includes the interior where you spend a lot of your time in, for a car that is 32k or so, the interior is a bit too plastic.
Edited by Shuthan_S5 on Friday 24th May 13:12
Shuthan_S5 said:
I have driven an S3 and I would say that is not dull, but people listen too much to what the media think than take the car down a nice road and witness it for themselves. I am just saying that for a car that has just over 300BHP, it does not need to look outrageous, its not a Lamborghini at the end of the day. It is like Honda wanted to be noticed in the hot hatch market and went mad with putting all sorts on the car. No other hot hatch has silly styling like that and most of them produce more power than the CTR.
Oh and I don't care about what other people think, I just couldn't stand to look at it every day I come out of my house, it is that ugly to me, and that includes the interior where you spend a lot of your time in, for a car that is 32k or so, the interior is a bit too plastic.
The S3 isn't meant to drive as well as a Golf R is it? I had one of those for a year and was bored within six months. Extremely capable but just not engaging. You may as well have been a passenger. Obviously it's not as dull as 1.6TDI but, compared to some of the best hot hatches out there, it just can't match them in terms of feeling special, or having great steering, or a nice sounding engine. They're a great all-rounder, but they don't really excel at anything in particular.Oh and I don't care about what other people think, I just couldn't stand to look at it every day I come out of my house, it is that ugly to me, and that includes the interior where you spend a lot of your time in, for a car that is 32k or so, the interior is a bit too plastic.
Edited by Shuthan_S5 on Friday 24th May 13:12
Of course the Honda doesn't NEED wild styling, but that's part of it's USP. It is sold as a "track car for the road". If it had subdued styling, it would just be another bland box and it would never get anywhere near its rivals. As you say yourself, Honda can't match the Germans in terms of interior quality or badge prestige, I can't blame them for trying something different, as they were always going to struggle to beat the likes of VW at their own game. Let's face it, while the older Type-R models didn't have particularly wild styling, they still had s
te interiors, so not that much has changed in reality. They were never exactly pretty either.Ultimately, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That's the great thing about us having lots of choice though.
Jon_S_Rally said:
The Halfords comparison is an odd one really, as Halfords don't actually sell big spoilers or wide-arch body kits
Isn't one of the big advertising points of the Type-R that the aerodynamic add-ons are functional? So, while it doesn't have a link to motorsport, it's there for a reason, so surely the justification is the same?
Pray tell how does solid mesh "printed" plastic help the aero? Isn't one of the big advertising points of the Type-R that the aerodynamic add-ons are functional? So, while it doesn't have a link to motorsport, it's there for a reason, so surely the justification is the same?
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