RE: Brabham BT62 | Driven

[Civpilot]

EDLT said:

blasos said:

Car-Matt said:

Olivera said:

MikeT66 said:

Yes - would love to see this up against the Senna, unfettered Ford GT, etc. on the track. It's what Sportscar racing should be.

These Hypercars are generally much, much slower than a ground up developed GT3 racing car.

Latest Top Gear youtube vid around Silverstone:

Senna: 2m 9s
650S GT3: 2m 2sec

I wouldn’t say a delta of circa 3% is much much slower personally

7 seconds more than 122 seconds is a 5.7% delta. According to Chris Harris the front ends were massively different with the Senna's power keeping it in the game. It'd be interesting to see the times on the same tyres.

Still not bad for a road legal car on road tyres. I'm sure Mclaren will eventually reveal a track only hyper car that absolutely isn't just a Senna on slicks.

Exactly this.

Road legal Senna on road legal rubber only 7seconds slower than a full 650S GT3 on slicks is pretty incredible. I wonder how much closer the gap would be if the Senna was on the same specification slick rubber?

The Brabham looks good and all but it is basically a full on race car, again on slick tyres, and at the moment at least not street legal. Of course it's going to be faster than the Senna/GT2RS. Once they make it street legal and as drivable at low speeds as the other two mentioned then it will be something for them to compare. However if the price remains £650k higher then I think everyone would expect it to be better.

If I had the money to buy any of these cars I would still choose a Senna of this though. It's actually more appealing for some reason and (I hope I am wrong) I fear Brabham won't have an extended run of models here. Better name than most 'new' companies but it all feels a little 'sniff petrol supercar' at the moment. I wish them well, but I think they are trying to take a bite out of a very, very small market that already has some very established names who have pretty loyal customers.

[hairykrishna]

I'm afraid I'm also in the 'over a million quid for that?' camp.

I know it was 10 years ago now but whenever someone is flogging a 'track toy for multi millionaires' my mind jumps immediately to the original Zonda R. I never really saw the point of it but it was clearly a very lovely thing. This, not so much. If it didn't have a Brabham badge on it everyone would be taking the piss out of them.

[binnerboy]

Vee12V said:

My money would go to a Broadley T76 but I wish him the best of luck!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOOdn4dyZGI&t=...

thanks for that, my dream car, that or a T70, I hadn't heard of broadley

I guess it needs a lottery win to afford but is cheaper than the real thing.

[hairykrishna]

binnerboy said:

Vee12V said:

My money would go to a Broadley T76 but I wish him the best of luck!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOOdn4dyZGI&t=...

thanks for that, my dream car, that or a T70, I hadn't heard of broadley

I guess it needs a lottery win to afford but is cheaper than the real thing.

I think, remembering from when evo tested one, they're about 250k.

[cidered77]

Darran-95030 said:

Interesting comparison but the thing is, The Senna is a turn key hyper car that doesn't need a team of mechanics. You can drive it across Europe, track the car for a few days and drive it back home.

it would be a comparison that would show the Brabham wipe the floor with the Senna. McLaren is still a road car end of the day - this isn't!

There hasn't been a roadcar manufactured yet that could live with a full-fat GT3 racecar over 10 laps. Or track car - FXXK/P1-GTR, etc, look at the laptimes they achieve at Silverstone on Youtube and they are still seconds off. Still roadcars; still too heavy.

If this is quicker than GT3 - and no reason to believe it won't be - then this would be seconds up the road. But - racecar beats roadcar; hardly a headline!

[cidered77]

blasos said:

Car-Matt said:

Olivera said:

MikeT66 said:

Yes - would love to see this up against the Senna, unfettered Ford GT, etc. on the track. It's what Sportscar racing should be.

These Hypercars are generally much, much slower than a ground up developed GT3 racing car.

Latest Top Gear youtube vid around Silverstone:

Senna: 2m 9s
650S GT3: 2m 2sec

I wouldn’t say a delta of circa 3% is much much slower personally

7 seconds more than 122 seconds is a 5.7% delta. According to Chris Harris the front ends were massively different with the Senna's power keeping it in the game. It'd be interesting to see the times on the same tyres.

ah - sorry, didn't see this point had already been made.

7 seconds is a very large delta, even with the tyres taken into account. Doesn't show the Senna as slow - just shows how much faster a proper racecar is. if the Brabham is close to it's quicker than GT3 pace claim, it shows how fast is it.

To put into perspective - a 195bhp Duratec Sports 2000 MCR car (get one used for 30k or so) would beat that Senna time as well. I've got one, and i've tested with full fat GT3 cars at Silverstone and whilst they may be "only" 8 sconds or so up the road, it feels a stload faster than that when they blast by!

To put into further perspective - if we're matching the Senna to a mondeo-engined club racing car pace, and the Brabham to a GT3... the Valkyrie pace is being compared to LMP1. That is a different universe of speed.... total game changer.

[Olivera]

cidered77 said:

There hasn't been a roadcar manufactured yet that could live with a full-fat GT3 racecar over 10 laps. Or track car - FXXK/P1-GTR, etc, look at the laptimes they achieve at Silverstone on Youtube and they are still seconds off. Still roadcars; still too heavy.

The weight of the 650S GT3 and road going Senna are pretty much identical.

[markcoznottz]

Civpilot said:

EDLT said:

blasos said:

Car-Matt said:

Olivera said:

MikeT66 said:

Yes - would love to see this up against the Senna, unfettered Ford GT, etc. on the track. It's what Sportscar racing should be.

These Hypercars are generally much, much slower than a ground up developed GT3 racing car.

Latest Top Gear youtube vid around Silverstone:

Senna: 2m 9s
650S GT3: 2m 2sec

I wouldn’t say a delta of circa 3% is much much slower personally

7 seconds more than 122 seconds is a 5.7% delta. According to Chris Harris the front ends were massively different with the Senna's power keeping it in the game. It'd be interesting to see the times on the same tyres.

Still not bad for a road legal car on road tyres. I'm sure Mclaren will eventually reveal a track only hyper car that absolutely isn't just a Senna on slicks.

Exactly this.

Road legal Senna on road legal rubber only 7seconds slower than a full 650S GT3 on slicks is pretty incredible. I wonder how much closer the gap would be if the Senna was on the same specification slick rubber?

The Brabham looks good and all but it is basically a full on race car, again on slick tyres, and at the moment at least not street legal. Of course it's going to be faster than the Senna/GT2RS. Once they make it street legal and as drivable at low speeds as the other two mentioned then it will be something for them to compare. However if the price remains £650k higher then I think everyone would expect it to be better.

If I had the money to buy any of these cars I would still choose a Senna of this though. It's actually more appealing for some reason and (I hope I am wrong) I fear Brabham won't have an extended run of models here. Better name than most 'new' companies but it all feels a little 'sniff petrol supercar' at the moment. I wish them well, but I think they are trying to take a bite out of a very, very small market that already has some very established names who have pretty loyal customers.

If you put the senna on slicks, then you need rose jointed suspension, with unacceptable nvh for a road car. Then a sequential gearbox and carbon clutch, with predictable consequences for the school run. GT3 cars cloud the issue tbh, they are racing cars, the senna is a fast road car. Adrian newey wanted a carbon clutch in his new Aston hyper car, to mount the engine lower, but he had to compromise with a larger sintered clutch, as the car would have been undriveable in traffic. There is always a compromise.

[Fishy Dave]

The Vambo said:

Eff all to do with Brabhams.

Eh? David is a Brabham, son of Sir Jack and besides, he's a Le Mans winner in his own right? Not sure how the car/brand could be any more 'Brabham' in the current era?

[EyeHeartSpellin]

Why is every thread on here now descending in to "yeah but this completley different car is faster"?

Does anyone really think, baring the very few on here who own or pretend to own the truly exotic that a lap even as a passenger, would not be absolutely terrifying and totally amazing? "My Senna is faster than this on the way to school". . . .fk off.

[BrassMan]

The real questions are:
What's it's 'Ring time?
How fast around the TT course?

[anonymous-user]

BrassMan said:

The real questions are:
What's it's 'Ring time?
How fast around the TT course?

It's too wide and the course is too bumpy for the TT. It would most likely get wedged between 2 cottages and explode.

[cidered77]

Olivera said:

cidered77 said:

There hasn't been a roadcar manufactured yet that could live with a full-fat GT3 racecar over 10 laps. Or track car - FXXK/P1-GTR, etc, look at the laptimes they achieve at Silverstone on Youtube and they are still seconds off. Still roadcars; still too heavy.

The weight of the 650S GT3 and road going Senna are pretty much identical.

the first part of my final sentence more relevant in that case then (although google tells me 1374 for a Senna; GT3 cars between 1200 and 1300 kg).

Point was anyway that don't compare this Brabham to a roadcar, as it doesn't have to play by those rules. if you did compare - it would be miles up the road around a circuit. But the brabham doesn't need to have a semi-normal turning circle, ground clearance, tolerable NVH, not-having-a-team-of-boffins-to-run-it, etc etc etc .

People might call it pointless - i dunno, no less pointless than a roadcar with performance you couldn't begin to exploit on the road. Both are ridiculous toys, really. I think it looks pretty magnificent, and fair play to anyone who buys it and enjoys it on track.

The only truly pointless cars i can see are the track-only specials that would fail every noise test in the country (Vulcan?). Those i really don't get.

[markcoznottz]

Lesson here is, slick tyres are awesome..... until it rains of course. It would be interesting to see a road car on slicks, I remember a Ferrari f50 at a track day on them, but it's highly unusual.

[otolith]

Gloriously irrelevant. Though barely more so than a road going hypercar, road legality for a hypercar being a bit like having a £50,000 flame thrower which you can also legally and comfortably use as a cigarette lighter.

A1VDY said:

Yet another pointless exercise. Clogged roads, low speed limits and dire Ave speeds in the UK and this thing appears
Totally aimed at geeky beardy Timothy types..

God you’re a miserable sod. I have never seen you do anything but snipe.

[redroadster]

Like to see times against a 100 grand 1000 bhp Ultima track day car .

[Cotty]

Looks great even though the paint job reminds me of Pacer mints.

[Tazar]

And now Gordon Murray has reinvented the F1 with his new car. Ok, it's twice the price of the Brabham so does that make the Brabham a bargain ?

[MKnight702]

binnerboy said:

Vee12V said:

My money would go to a Broadley T76 but I wish him the best of luck!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOOdn4dyZGI&t=...

thanks for that, my dream car, that or a T70, I hadn't heard of broadley

I guess it needs a lottery win to afford but is cheaper than the real thing.

Have you looked at the Gardner Douglas T70 and T70 Moda? They are pretty special too and much cheaper to boot. There are some Autocar(IIRC) videos on YouTube if you are interested.

[otolith]

Tazar said:

And now Gordon Murray has reinvented the F1 with his new car. Ok, it's twice the price of the Brabham so does that make the Brabham a bargain ?

The Murray car is quite a different proposition, though. Fully usable road car with bespoke tiny V12 intended to be the ultimate driver's car rather than necessarily the fastest thing you can buy vs a track car you can SVA.