RE: BMW lifts the lid on new 625hp M8 Competition

[donkmeister]

E65Ross said:

Touring442 said:

E65Ross said:

Yep.... They were a total sales flop

Really?

Do you know why?

The whole E31 8 series was a sales disaster. Not sure why, probably cost. Yes, the "proper" 8 series that everyone on here seems to fawn over on any new 8 series thread was a sales flop.

Go figure.

I saw an 8-series classic (they add that to Mini and RR now so why not? ) last week in Biggleswade Sainsbury's. I wasn't actually a fan of the design back in the day, but now... Ooof! It has aged well!!!

[MX6]

donkmeister said:

I saw an 8-series classic (they add that to Mini and RR now so why not? ) last week in Biggleswade Sainsbury's. I wasn't actually a fan of the design back in the day, but now... Ooof! It has aged well!!!

Ha, I live near 'wade...

But yeah, those 8 series look great to me. It was probably considered somewhat bloated at the time, but now it looks super tight/clean/taut next to a lot of blobby/baggy looking modern motors.

[Touring442]

They were incredibly desirable, but in those pre PCP days, nobody could afford one! It was such a leap from the cars BMW were making as well. The current one is probably a good car but it's just not 'wow' enough.

I wanted one but could not find a single CSi in the dealer network, settling for a 4.4 840Ci instead. Still a nice thing but brisk rather than fast.

[Terminator X]

moffat said:

Terminator X said:

True but people are buying £120k motors so I guess aren't that worried about "losing" £60k. Surely just the cost of owning a "nice" car if you want it from new. Savvy buyers buying after 3 years at 50% of the original cost but even then at £60k you will still lose a lot of money in depreciation.

TX.

BMW's depreciation right now is terrible - brand new M5 Comp in Leeds for sale with an individual colour and £31k off list with 0%APR... insane.

Pre reg though (?) so effectively 2nd hand eg the old 20% off at least adage + imho people don't generally pay list prices for M5's etc.

TX.

[T1berious]

Wasn't the E31 also launched during a recession? It was the wrong car at exactly the wrong time.

Massively expensive Beemer aimed at the upwardly mobile who rather suddenly found themselves significantly less flush. I believe it was more expensive than a 911 at the time?

[nickfrog]

moffat said:

BMW's depreciation right now is terrible - brand new M5 Comp in Leeds for sale with an individual colour and £31k off list with 0%APR... insane.

Is BMWs depreciation any worse than other volume manufacturers?

[Ken Figenus]

Terminator X said:

True but people are buying £120k motors so I guess aren't that worried about "losing" £60k.

Most would be horrified mate - its exactly the same as for anyone else just a different price point. Most of us afflicted who are on a steady wage (rather than getting £200k City bonuses etc) push ourselves to the limit to get the best car we can afford - if its worth half of that after 18 months its a huge kick in the nuts and prejudicial to the value of the next car you'd potentially buy.

[Shiv_P]

nickfrog said:

Is BMWs depreciation any worse than other volume manufacturers?

Yes

[Kenny Powers]

Ken Figenus said:

Most would be horrified mate - its exactly the same as for anyone else just a different price point. Most of us afflicted who are on a steady wage (rather than getting £200k City bonuses etc) push ourselves to the limit to get the best car we can afford - if its worth half of that after 18 months its a huge kick in the nuts and prejudicial to the value of the next car you'd potentially buy.

I think you are making the mistake of thinking that everyone buys the best car they can possibly afford. People with the disposable cash to spend £120,000 on an automobile haven’t just remortgaged the house. It’s likely little more than a runaround to some. To many folk this kind of money is so insignificant they could afford to lose all of it and buy another one the following week.

Perspective...

[Touring442]

T1berious said:

Wasn't the E31 also launched during a recession? It was the wrong car at exactly the wrong time.

Massively expensive Beemer aimed at the upwardly mobile who rather suddenly found themselves significantly less flush. I believe it was more expensive than a 911 at the time?

That, plus it was slower than the M635CSi and a lot more money, plus zero rear legroom. Styling only goes so far.......
The 850i was a good car, but not very exciting. It was like a modern XJS but very well built.

[Terminator X]

Ken Figenus said:

Terminator X said:

True but people are buying £120k motors so I guess aren't that worried about "losing" £60k.

Most would be horrified mate - its exactly the same as for anyone else just a different price point. Most of us afflicted who are on a steady wage (rather than getting £200k City bonuses etc) push ourselves to the limit to get the best car we can afford - if its worth half of that after 18 months its a huge kick in the nuts and prejudicial to the value of the next car you'd potentially buy.

Nobody can say for sure but 50% after 3 years is "standard" depreciation be it a £20k car or £120k. If you buy new cars you will feel it and people do buy new of course.

TX.

[nickfrog]

Shiv_P said:

nickfrog said:

Is BMWs depreciation any worse than other volume manufacturers?

Yes

Are you speaking from personal experience? The slowest depreciating new car I bought recently has been the LCI M135i. Just over £200/month depreciation over the first 18 months : not bad I would have thought, hence my surprise at the initial comment which doesn't correspond to the reality of my own transactions but perhaps you've had a different outcome?

[IainR]

About to swap my 2 1/2 year old 15,000 X5 M and the We Buy Any Car valuation is £41,500 vs. paying around £90,000 new (after discount).

I knew it was going to be a depreciation nightmare and it’s a great car, but herein lies the challenge with BMWs (all mine have done the same thing).

I do like the look of this M8, but it’s clearly going to be a £50k car very quickly. A similar priced 911 Turbo is a different ball game financially.

[Ken Figenus]

Kenny Powers said:

I think you are making the mistake of thinking that everyone buys the best car they can possibly afford. People with the disposable cash to spend £120,000 on an automobile haven’t just remortgaged the house. It’s likely little more than a runaround to some. To many folk this kind of money is so insignificant they could afford to lose all of it and buy another one the following week.

Perspective...

I think I have perspective, having started off in a £300 Ford Escort Mk1 - well actually an MT50 before that! You also talk of 'disposable cash' in these PCP driven times?

You are thinking of proper wealthy people with incomes of over £1m a year - not people who work hard and aspire to a nice car as its their petrol headed passion. People who may push the boat out a bit for a £150k motor - petrolheads who MUST have that Macca before a conservatory...

I'm talking more GT3/DB11/570GT that fulfill dreams; you are talking Veyron and Senna and Knightsbridge cheque books! So I think I have perspective; I'm living it

[Ken Figenus]

IainR said:

About to swap my 2 1/2 year old 15,000 X5 M and the We Buy Any Car valuation is £41,500 vs. paying around £90,000 new (after discount).

I knew it was going to be a depreciation nightmare and it’s a great car, but herein lies the challenge with BMWs (all mine have done the same thing).

This is the new reality. Sadly. They just make up the RRP's on these Bimmers and offer 10% off and we are hooked in. Their leather is awful and sprayed with thick plastic and the parts are so common between entry level and top of the range. Great business model.

I got £17k off a pre reg loaded 535d thinking I was being sharp and killing the depreciation a lot before it started. I was getting offers of £25k on a £42k car after 14 months 14,000. 40%. They ALL knew! It was a plot It would have been a bit more OK a few months into year 2 maybe...

They just know what they are doing and its quite canny, and I wouldn't touch them with a barge-pole now, probably! Its just business though and is kind to the second owner of a 'bargain' i8 currently

[E65Ross]

Ken Figenus said:

You also talk of 'disposable cash' in these PCP driven times?

Errr, and what's wrong with that? If someone is leasing/buying or whatever a car through monthly payments, those payments can come out of their disposable income (hence they can afford it in the 1st place).

I know several people with cars over £100k, not one of them has bought them outright, and they ALL have spare cash to live a nice lifestyle. So not sure what you are asking with this question?

[popeyewhite]

E65Ross said:

Errr, and what's wrong with that? If someone is leasing/buying or whatever a car through monthly payments, those payments can come out of their disposable income (hence they can afford it in the 1st place).

Yawn yawn I know, but surely you mean they can afford the payments? Maybe i've misread your post but you imply they can afford the car itself... .

[E65Ross]

popeyewhite said:

E65Ross said:

Errr, and what's wrong with that? If someone is leasing/buying or whatever a car through monthly payments, those payments can come out of their disposable income (hence they can afford it in the 1st place).

Yawn yawn I know, but surely you mean they can afford the payments? Maybe i've misread your post but you imply they can afford the car itself... .

If they can afford the monthly payments and the car is sitting on their driveway then it sounds like they can afford it to me, no?

Or can I not afford my house because I have to have a mortgage and didn't buy it outright?

[popeyewhite]

E65Ross said:

If they can afford the monthly payments and the car is sitting on their driveway then it sounds like they can afford it to me, no?

What you've written is they can afford to pay the monthly payments.

E65Ross said:

Or can I not afford my house because I have to have a mortgage and didn't buy it outright?

Well...can you afford to buy it ouright or can you just afford the mortgage repayments? Quite straightforward... .

Good luck convincing your bank manager though

[E65Ross]

popeyewhite said:

E65Ross said:

If they can afford the monthly payments and the car is sitting on their driveway then it sounds like they can afford it to me, no?

What you've written is they can afford to pay the monthly payments.

E65Ross said:

Or can I not afford my house because I have to have a mortgage and didn't buy it outright?

Well...can you afford to buy it ouright or can you just afford the mortgage repayments? Quite straightforward... .

Good luck convincing your bank manager though

But the finance deal is there to make it affordable, if you can afford the monthly payments then I can't see why you can't afford it. Just because you can't afford to buy something outright, if there are deals available to make it so payments are within your limit, doesn't mean you then can't afford it. The whole point of finance deals is to make stuff affordable. Otherwise hardly anyone would ever own a house, for example....or people buying a new kitchen for their home on finance would never buy a new kitchen etc.

The whole "if you can't afford to buy it outright then you can't afford it" argument is a load of crap. I know people who spend well over £1k/month on their car, they can afford it, other people couldn't afford that and so don't have a car costing as much because, well, they can't afford it....

So yes, I think if they can afford the monthly payments then they can afford the car, hope that makes sense.

Edited by E65Ross on Saturday 8th June 13:22