RE: New AMG 2.0-litre is "most powerful ever

[Dblue]

Deep Thought said:

Dblue said:

Not yet obviously, it's not been launched yet. But the A35 has. -

This piece is about AMGs power claims and I pointed out the old A45 was already the most powerful car in it's class, that did not make it the best car in it's class, not even close.

The A35 is the new chassis and is undoubtedly better than the old car but still not doing more than matching the Golf R which means it's still a little short of the very best.

Maybe AMG will knock it out of the park, maybe it will back up the monster power with a composed , agile and engaging chassis, I don't know. But it seems their main focus remains on overwhelming power and crushing acceleration stats and not sure that augurs well.

Hardly appropriate to assume the all new A45 will be like the old A45?

Also, who said it wasnt best in class? Its class was the M2, the RS3 and itself. If you wanted a hatch and a car that could go round corners, the A45 was the best in class.

The A35 is designed to match the likes of the Golf R as a AWD turbo'd 300BHP ish 4 pot. Just like the new M135i is going to be. They are fitting a particular mould with the car.

Is the purpose of AMG not overwhelming power and crushing acceleraiton? Is that not their thing?

I said - the new A35 AMG is a reasonable bench mark and its good but its not great. The last A45 was NOT the best drivers car in even the 3 car class you've assigned to it ( I would suggest that as a high powered family hatch that there are quite a few other contenders) , and even your list has only 1 other "hatch"

If you want a hatch that could go round corners WELL then I reckon the old A45 wasn't in the top 6 in that class. It's not all about horsepower

[Osamu Rosche]

So, they are making a completely new engine like 6 years after the debut of the previous one, the latter up to now still peerless in terms of bhp/litre and overall probably the most powerful in the segment. All this (costly) development despite the prophesied death of a combustion engine in the near future. Am I the only one who finds this strange? Why fix the (previous generation) engine that wasn't broken?



Unless it was broken - anyone care to comment on reliability, etc.?

[redroadster]

Super car performance from a daily driver ,the tuning lads will add another 100 bhp easily not worrying about factory spec emissions targets .

[Driver101]

Deep Thought said:

Sky high prices and quite poor residuals, if the old one is anything to go by....

6 year old cars start around £19k. That's 50% of list price before even considering the discounts that could be had.

That is not poor residuals at all.

[anonymous-user]

I find it funny that it's so far away from Mercedes' values of old - too much power from such a small engine. Their V12s are/or were famously understressed and their model range would were given just enough power.

I'd want to know the long term reliability before signing up!

[eftiem64]

Who cares how powerful it is, its still a sad trend.

[Baldchap]

eftiem64 said:

Who cares how powerful it is, its still a sad trend.

What is a sad trend? Cars getting faster every year? I don't think that's sad.

You can still buy 16/12/10/8/6/5/3/2 cylinder cars, they're just faster than ever!

[cerb4.5lee]

421bhp and it revs to 7200rpm. I find that really impressive from a 4 cylinder engine. I was happy when my old 200sx was running 250bhp(modded) from the same size engine!(I wasn't that keen on having to service it every 6 months/6k miles though).

Engines have moved on big time performance/servicing wise for sure. Looking forward to reading about/seeing reviews of this new A45 in the future.

[SidewaysSi]

Dblue said:

Deep Thought said:

Dblue said:

Not yet obviously, it's not been launched yet. But the A35 has. -

This piece is about AMGs power claims and I pointed out the old A45 was already the most powerful car in it's class, that did not make it the best car in it's class, not even close.

The A35 is the new chassis and is undoubtedly better than the old car but still not doing more than matching the Golf R which means it's still a little short of the very best.

Maybe AMG will knock it out of the park, maybe it will back up the monster power with a composed , agile and engaging chassis, I don't know. But it seems their main focus remains on overwhelming power and crushing acceleration stats and not sure that augurs well.

Hardly appropriate to assume the all new A45 will be like the old A45?

Also, who said it wasnt best in class? Its class was the M2, the RS3 and itself. If you wanted a hatch and a car that could go round corners, the A45 was the best in class.

The A35 is designed to match the likes of the Golf R as a AWD turbo'd 300BHP ish 4 pot. Just like the new M135i is going to be. They are fitting a particular mould with the car.

Is the purpose of AMG not overwhelming power and crushing acceleraiton? Is that not their thing?

I said - the new A35 AMG is a reasonable bench mark and its good but its not great. The last A45 was NOT the best drivers car in even the 3 car class you've assigned to it ( I would suggest that as a high powered family hatch that there are quite a few other contenders) , and even your list has only 1 other "hatch"

If you want a hatch that could go round corners WELL then I reckon the old A45 wasn't in the top 6 in that class. It's not all about horsepower

I agree. I would be very surprised if you are wrong on this.

[Deep Thought]

Dblue said:

I said - the new A35 AMG is a reasonable bench mark and its good but its not great. The last A45 was NOT the best drivers car in even the 3 car class you've assigned to it ( I would suggest that as a high powered family hatch that there are quite a few other contenders) , and even your list has only 1 other "hatch"

If you want a hatch that could go round corners WELL then I reckon the old A45 wasn't in the top 6 in that class. It's not all about horsepower

Being the best drivers car does not equate to best in class. You said initially best in class.

The last A45, RS3 and M2 were priced in the hyperhatch market, with power and price tags to match. If you were in the market for 0-60 in 4s ish, 400BHP ish and had £45K to spend then what were your choices? They were - and are - in a different league entirely to the Golf R and the 300BHP ish ilk.

Someone looking an M2, RS3 or A45 doesnt turn around and say, actually i'll save myself £15K and buy a Golf R. Theres a particular market for them.

Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 7th June 19:08

[Deep Thought]

Osamu Rosche said:

So, they are making a completely new engine like 6 years after the debut of the previous one, the latter up to now still peerless in terms of bhp/litre and overall probably the most powerful in the segment. All this (costly) development despite the prophesied death of a combustion engine in the near future. Am I the only one who finds this strange? Why fix the (previous generation) engine that wasn't broken?



Unless it was broken - anyone care to comment on reliability, etc.?

Because Audi upped (or are upping?) the power of the RS3 and BMW have upped the power of the M2.

The combustion engine will be around for a very long time, particularly in this market sector. I dont think AMG are ready to close up shop just yet - do you?

[Deep Thought]

SidewaysSi said:

I agree. I would be very surprised if you are wrong on this.

Hes not wrong it what hes saying, hes just looking at it from the wrong perspective.

Theres a long running debate if the most powerful car makes the best hot and clearly it doesnt, however there will be people who want the most powerful car. If that is your bag, then your choices have been RS3, A45 and M2. Granted the M2 is not a hatch but its in the same realm on price, overall size and power.

And to get back to his original point which he has backed away from, "The rest of the A45 not really at the races vs the best competition.". (a) he doesnt know that as noone has driven it and (b) AMG is about massive power and acceleration, not about being the best drivers car. Noone buys an AMG because its the most nimble best drivers car.

Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 7th June 19:06

[Burwood]

Deep Thought said:

Dblue said:

I said - the new A35 AMG is a reasonable bench mark and its good but its not great. The last A45 was NOT the best drivers car in even the 3 car class you've assigned to it ( I would suggest that as a high powered family hatch that there are quite a few other contenders) , and even your list has only 1 other "hatch"

If you want a hatch that could go round corners WELL then I reckon the old A45 wasn't in the top 6 in that class. It's not all about horsepower

Being the best drivers car does not equate to best in class. You said initially best in class.

The last A45, RS3 and M2 were priced in the hyperhatch market, with power and price tags to match. If you were in the market for 0-60 in 4s ish and had £45K to spend then what were your choices? They were - and are - in a different league entirely to the Golf R and the 300BHP ish ilk.

Someone looking an M2, RS3 or A45 doesnt turn around and say, actually i'll save myself £15K and buy a Golf R. Theres a particular market for them.

And that's why you will see a Golf R+ (plus) with over 400hp in 6 months which will be priced at £45K

[Deep Thought]

Burwood said:

Deep Thought said:

Dblue said:

I said - the new A35 AMG is a reasonable bench mark and its good but its not great. The last A45 was NOT the best drivers car in even the 3 car class you've assigned to it ( I would suggest that as a high powered family hatch that there are quite a few other contenders) , and even your list has only 1 other "hatch"

If you want a hatch that could go round corners WELL then I reckon the old A45 wasn't in the top 6 in that class. It's not all about horsepower

Being the best drivers car does not equate to best in class. You said initially best in class.

The last A45, RS3 and M2 were priced in the hyperhatch market, with power and price tags to match. If you were in the market for 0-60 in 4s ish and had £45K to spend then what were your choices? They were - and are - in a different league entirely to the Golf R and the 300BHP ish ilk.

Someone looking an M2, RS3 or A45 doesnt turn around and say, actually i'll save myself £15K and buy a Golf R. Theres a particular market for them.

And that's why you will see a Golf R+ (plus) with over 400hp in 6 months which will be priced at £45K

Yup. VW are stepping up because they know they are missing out. The R maps to the S3 and the A35. VW will rant their own RS3 / A45 rival.

They'd need to not call it the R+ though....

[philmots]

Awesome and impressive...

I’ve got an A35 on order, this will probably be at least 15k more in S spec, to me doesn’t represent good value but if money isn’t much issue then it’ll probably be faster in a straight line and otherwise very similar.👍🏻

[cerb4.5lee]

philmots said:

I’ve got an A35 on order,

I saw one of these in the metal today for the first time and I loved the way it looked. I think you will be well happy with it and I'm a big fan.

[Stu08]

Deep Thought said:

Because Audi upped (or are upping?) the power of the RS3 and BMW have upped the power of the M2.

The combustion engine will be around for a very long time, particularly in this market sector. I dont think AMG are ready to close up shop just yet - do you?

Agreed, the internal combustion engine still has plenty of life left. Whether it be as a primary source of power (until 2040) or as part of a hybrid system after 2040 - there is more madness to come yet, and I can’t wait to see what the competition is planning in response to this engine.

[RobDickinson]

Jimbo. said:

And yet remain complaint with all emission regulations AND meet manufacturer durability criteria AND remain driveable?

Emmision compliance? Germans don't bother with that.

[Osamu Rosche]

Deep Thought said:

Osamu Rosche said:

So, they are making a completely new engine like 6 years after the debut of the previous one, the latter up to now still peerless in terms of bhp/litre and overall probably the most powerful in the segment. All this (costly) development despite the prophesied death of a combustion engine in the near future. Am I the only one who finds this strange? Why fix the (previous generation) engine that wasn't broken?



Unless it was broken - anyone care to comment on reliability, etc.?

Because Audi upped (or are upping?) the power of the RS3 and BMW have upped the power of the M2.

The combustion engine will be around for a very long time, particularly in this market sector. I dont think AMG are ready to close up shop just yet - do you?

Good point re: Audi, but aren't they just modifying their existing 5-cylinder? Mercedes on the other hand decided to splurge on a brand new architecture. I am not complaining, just find that surprising. The issue of combustion development being or not being curbed by the rise of the electric notwithstanding, were I the technical director at AMG, I would try to make engines which do not need a blank sheet replacement after only 5 years. But I am not, so what do I know?

[Beechie]

Schmed said:

The power of four is impressive indeed, and 421 bhp is just insane..

421 hp, not bhp. Still impressive, though.