RE: BBR unveils Super 200/220 power hikes for MX-5

[Simon Owen]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

If I could still get away with two seats one of these would be spot on for an every day car. As it is, it just about doesn’t feel special enough for a weekend car.

Completely different kettle of badgers but I think I’d rather a lotus or Porsche as an occasional toy.

Having said that, my year of MX5 ownership was absolutely brilliant, no BBR mods but a few suspension tweaks.

The BBR is cheaper, smaller, lighter, more nimble and playful at roads speeds than a Boxter and way more practical than an Elise.

But chassis stiffness and steering feel are far superior in both Boxter & Elise ....... arghhhhh !!!!!!!!!! We love the useability of the BBR, and we use it for all kinds of trips but I'm not going to lie I do sometimes crave better steering precision.

[VanquishRider]

300bhp/ton said:

VanquishRider said:

I would buy another one. But it would have to be a 3rd generation one with stability control. As lifting off the throttle at well into three figures on a motorway curve should not induce an un-catchable (at least by me) spin.

1. Stability control unlikely to save you or solve the issue.
2. Motorways have a 70mph limit, WTF are you doing 100mph+ on one?
3. Lift off Oversteer affects FWD and even AWD cars too
4. Lifting off at speed on a curve is driver error

I never said I was in the UK (or anywhere else) and if you can honestly say you have never exceed the speed limit on a UK Motorway then I think you should find a forum that dos not have the strap line of "speed matters".

And it was just before the curve. And it was an error. I don't intend to come off the throttle that sharp ever again. But I doubt my Porker or Vanquish would do the same nasty trick on me???

[VanquishRider]

n4aat said:

VanquishRider said:

I would buy another one. But it would have to be a 3rd generation one with stability control. As lifting off the throttle at well into three figures on a motorway curve should not induce an un-catchable (at least by me) spin.

That was in 2007 on the north side of the M25 was it?

Nope.

[300bhp/ton]

VanquishRider said:

I doubt my Porker or Vanquish would do the same nasty trick on me???

Try it and let us know how you get on.

[kambites]

Simon Owen said:

kambites said:

It's worth noting that the BBR modifications almost certainly haven't been through type approval and as such are almost certainly not compliant with modern emissions regulations. Still a wonderful engine, but by the (entirely ignored, at least in the UK) letter of the law probably not a road legal one.

Interesting point which I'm sure somebody will know the answer to ? Our car has a CAT and will still pass the MOT so I'm struggling to understand why it would be illegal.

Construction and use regulations are quite strict and in many ways almost entirely ignored. For example, it is illegal to alter the exhaust system in a way which makes a car louder. I believe there are similar rules regarding emissions which, strictly speaking, make any modifications to the coding of the ECU illegal.

That wasn't really the point though, the point was that this is not an emissions compliant car so this power output is nowhere near as impressive from BBR as it would have been from Mazda themselves. It wouldn't bother me if I was going to buy one, but from an engineering perspective getting 110bhp/litre out of this engine is really no more impressive now than it would have been 15 years ago when OEM emissions were less tightly controlled.

I wonder if this unit will become the engine of choice for kit car manufacturers now. It's probably the only reasonably light naturally aspirated four pot left which is capable of this sort of power?

Edited by kambites on Thursday 13th June 16:25

[MrStack]

Simon Owen said:

kambites said:

It's worth noting that the BBR modifications almost certainly haven't been through type approval and as such are almost certainly not compliant with modern emissions regulations. Still a wonderful engine, but by the (entirely ignored, at least in the UK) letter of the law probably not a road legal one.

Interesting point which I'm sure somebody will know the answer to ? Our car has a CAT and will still pass the MOT so I'm struggling to understand why it would be illegal.

IIRC correctly the BBR modifications pass MOT emissions,at least for other models it's in their web.

To fulfill with Euro 6D emission one of the test you must pass is emission from a cold start.
In order to comply with this the cat must heat quickly, that's one of the reasons why most manufacturers use very short exhaust manifolds (Or even put the turbo next to the head, like in the newer EA888 engines).

[borat52]

300bhp/ton said:

1. Stability control unlikely to save you or solve the issue.

I beg to differ on that, there's every chance a modern system would catch it early enough to prevent a spin, you might not end up taking the path you wanted to take but it'll at least be controllable.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Simon Owen said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

If I could still get away with two seats one of these would be spot on for an every day car. As it is, it just about doesn’t feel special enough for a weekend car.

Completely different kettle of badgers but I think I’d rather a lotus or Porsche as an occasional toy.

Having said that, my year of MX5 ownership was absolutely brilliant, no BBR mods but a few suspension tweaks.

The BBR is cheaper, smaller, lighter, more nimble and playful at roads speeds than a Boxter and way more practical than an Elise.

But chassis stiffness and steering feel are far superior in both Boxter & Elise ....... arghhhhh !!!!!!!!!! We love the useability of the BBR, and we use it for all kinds of trips but I'm not going to lie I do sometimes crave better steering precision.

Absolutely and all very good posts made. Honestly, I loved my year in one (a 2015 NC) and it was all you needed on the road. But, the 'ring is such a big part of my motoring life and it really was a little underpowered there (if still brilliant fun!).

I'd love to try a BBR'd one though, I really do wonder if those extra BHP (rather than torque) would make it quick enough?

[DoubleD]

borat52 said:

300bhp/ton said:

1. Stability control unlikely to save you or solve the issue.

I beg to differ on that, there's every chance a modern system would catch it early enough to prevent a spin, you might not end up taking the path you wanted to take but it'll at least be controllable.

Yep, modern stability control systems are very good.

[StottyGTR]

VanquishRider said:

300bhp/ton said:

VanquishRider said:

I would buy another one. But it would have to be a 3rd generation one with stability control. As lifting off the throttle at well into three figures on a motorway curve should not induce an un-catchable (at least by me) spin.

1. Stability control unlikely to save you or solve the issue.
2. Motorways have a 70mph limit, WTF are you doing 100mph+ on one?
3. Lift off Oversteer affects FWD and even AWD cars too
4. Lifting off at speed on a curve is driver error

I never said I was in the UK (or anywhere else) and if you can honestly say you have never exceed the speed limit on a UK Motorway then I think you should find a forum that dos not have the strap line of "speed matters".

And it was just before the curve. And it was an error. I don't intend to come off the throttle that sharp ever again. But I doubt my Porker or Vanquish would do the same nasty trick on me???

Ignore him he's talking bks.

That response wound me up and he's not even talking to me...

[VanquishRider]

StottyGTR said:

VanquishRider said:

300bhp/ton said:

VanquishRider said:

I would buy another one. But it would have to be a 3rd generation one with stability control. As lifting off the throttle at well into three figures on a motorway curve should not induce an un-catchable (at least by me) spin.

1. Stability control unlikely to save you or solve the issue.
2. Motorways have a 70mph limit, WTF are you doing 100mph+ on one?
3. Lift off Oversteer affects FWD and even AWD cars too
4. Lifting off at speed on a curve is driver error

I never said I was in the UK (or anywhere else) and if you can honestly say you have never exceed the speed limit on a UK Motorway then I think you should find a forum that dos not have the strap line of "speed matters".

And it was just before the curve. And it was an error. I don't intend to come off the throttle that sharp ever again. But I doubt my Porker or Vanquish would do the same nasty trick on me???

Ignore him he's talking bks.

That response wound me up and he's not even talking to me...

300 tons of it?

[Brainpox]

Peak power at 7800rpm? Sounds glorious already. I'd love to have a go in one.

[300bhp/ton]

StottyGTR said:

Ignore him he's talking bks.

That response wound me up and he's not even talking to me...

Why and for what reason?

[DoubleD]

300bhp/ton said:

StottyGTR said:

Ignore him he's talking bks.

That response wound me up and he's not even talking to me...

Why and for what reason?

Have you never broken a speed limit?

[Kolbenkopp]

kambites said:

It's worth noting that the BBR modifications almost certainly haven't been through type approval and as such are almost certainly not compliant with modern emissions regulations.

Yeah agree, pretty sure it's not compliant with emissions reg. Quite envious you can get away with things like this in the UK.

The Germans unfortunately have no sense of perspective here, could get one into trouble from tax cheating (emissions worse than on car tax form) to insurance not paying out in case of accident (illegal power mods).

Would love to get an ND with the 200 upgrade. Then try to find the couple of kgs to take out so it has true 200 PS / ton...

[Simon Owen]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Absolutely and all very good posts made. Honestly, I loved my year in one (a 2015 NC) and it was all you needed on the road. But, the 'ring is such a big part of my motoring life and it really was a little underpowered there (if still brilliant fun!).

I'd love to try a BBR'd one though, I really do wonder if those extra BHP (rather than torque) would make it quick enough?

"quick enough" is very subjective and I've not done the ring so can't really comment on that. On the road though it does feel pretty nippy throughout the rev range .... 214bhp ish, 1050kg & 205 PS4 boots is not a bad performance grip sweet spot for hooning around Blighty B roads.

[redroadster]

Why don't they give performance figures .

[Kolbenkopp]

redroadster said:

Why don't they give performance figures .

Probably because it's a huge bother (if taken serioulsy) and there's not much in it 0-60.

[Kolbenkopp]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

I'd love to try a BBR'd one though, I really do wonder if those extra BHP (rather than torque) would make it quick enough?

Apologies if the clip is well know, but I found that pretty impressive for a totally stock ND: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnEhfuSkTEU

Road tester from French mag "L'Argus"...

[gofasterrosssco]

Simon Owen said:

Being NA and seemingly very reliable I always wonder what this powerplant would be like in an Elise or Caterham at these kind of power levels ?!?!

Plenty Elises (S1 & S2) that have the venerable Honda K20 engine swaps, and by most accounts (not having driven one) they are an excellent package, as are the Ford Duratec engines.

Not sure if there is some commonalities between the Mazda engine and the Duratecs, but I'm sure it would also be a nice swap if reasonably affordable 'crate' engines were available and weren't hobbled by a 'needy' / restrictive ECU / PCM.

For the MX-5, I'm sure the vast majority would go for the '200' package, as they have essentially the same torque delivery, and the extra ponies from the 220 likely only being accessible to those willing to play in the upper rpm band..