RE: Toyota (Supra) at Le Mans | PH Footnote
Discussion
Many owners of M3's/4's singing absolute praise about the chassis on these. No doubt the M4 is a good chassis, so surprises me there that people feel it is that good. But, judging from what the chief engineer said, they focused a lot on its development from the first place, and the key point was very good handling, and people are coming away saying that. No way to say that about the last one.
300bhp/ton said:
Why?
The film or the Supra? Both are crap in the context of what went before, trading on the success of the originals and failing to deliver on that recipe. If they want to capitalise on hallowed territory then they should be sure they at least do it justice. Just look at it. It's a fluffy molten plastic 'rainbow' car. The dimensions are far too cutesy. What is it? A more powerful GT86, or what the GT86 should have been. It doesn't deserve the revered Supra moniker. They're not appealing in the least to previous generation Supra owners who would have been the natural audience when you resurrect a name like that (it's not even a 2+2). If they're not appealing to that audience, then FFS, leave the name alone and call it something else! My beef isn't with the car which I no longer have any interest in, they've ruined the expectation for me, but the marketing fob off by trading off a name to which this thing doesn't embody the values that went before, not to mention the accompanying fanfare and teasing along with the fantastic looking FT1 concepts along the way. It annoys me and leaves me disappointed in equal measure.
Even when it'll inevitably fall into tuner hands and become highly modified to give it real teeth it could still never pull off looking like a proper sports car, it just doesn't do it. The Supra was a super car slayer in its day, proudly taking the fight to Italian supercars and exotica. This thing aims low, chasing just above the MX5 esque type sector and not the traditional Supra battleground. I'm sure it'll be a lovely little sports car, but the Supra was a sledgehammer of a car, not a camping mallet
All that BS about we should be happy they produced it and it wouldn't have happened without platform sharing. What a load of poppycock. They already had what they needed for a true Supra successor in the LFA which would have been a far more suitable platform for a successor. They certainly didn't worry about platform sharing with that! They had all the tooling already.
Still, in this day and age, I'm clearly a dinosaur. They may yet offer a cycle rack for this Supra.
It's doesn't conjure up any awesome adjectives in my mind, quite the opposite in fact.
I've tried to keep out of 'Supra' posts as I have nothing nice to say. Again, it's not about the car, it's about the sell out in using that name and it runs deeper than that, Toyota are selling out on far too many fronts. The Hilux has been neutered with its underpowered limp wristed engine. The Landcruiser has been watered down, both cars we currently own and neither of which will be replaced by Toyotas. After having had Toyotas for 25+ years they no longer make anything that appeals, with other manufacturers soon to be picking up the slack.
NITO said:
The film or the Supra? Both are crap in the context of what went before, trading on the success of the originals and failing to deliver on that recipe. If they want to capitalise on hallowed territory then they should be sure they at least do it justice.
Just look at it. It's a fluffy molten plastic 'rainbow' car. The dimensions are far too cutesy. What is it? A more powerful GT86, or what the GT86 should have been. It doesn't deserve the revered Supra moniker. They're not appealing in the least to previous generation Supra owners who would have been the natural audience when you resurrect a name like that (it's not even a 2+2). If they're not appealing to that audience, then FFS, leave the name alone and call it something else! My beef isn't with the car which I no longer have any interest in, they've ruined the expectation for me, but the marketing fob off by trading off a name to which this thing doesn't embody the values that went before, not to mention the accompanying fanfare and teasing along with the fantastic looking FT1 concepts along the way. It annoys me and leaves me disappointed in equal measure.
Even when it'll inevitably fall into tuner hands and become highly modified to give it real teeth it could still never pull off looking like a proper sports car, it just doesn't do it. The Supra was a super car slayer in its day, proudly taking the fight to Italian supercars and exotica. This thing aims low, chasing just above the MX5 esque type sector and not the traditional Supra battleground. I'm sure it'll be a lovely little sports car, but the Supra was a sledgehammer of a car, not a camping mallet
All that BS about we should be happy they produced it and it wouldn't have happened without platform sharing. What a load of poppycock. They already had what they needed for a true Supra successor in the LFA which would have been a far more suitable platform for a successor. They certainly didn't worry about platform sharing with that! They had all the tooling already.
Still, in this day and age, I'm clearly a dinosaur. They may yet offer a cycle rack for this Supra.
It's doesn't conjure up any awesome adjectives in my mind, quite the opposite in fact.
I've tried to keep out of 'Supra' posts as I have nothing nice to say. Again, it's not about the car, it's about the sell out in using that name and it runs deeper than that, Toyota are selling out on far too many fronts. The Hilux has been neutered with its underpowered limp wristed engine. The Landcruiser has been watered down, both cars we currently own and neither of which will be replaced by Toyotas. After having had Toyotas for 25+ years they no longer make anything that appeals, with other manufacturers soon to be picking up the slack.
Just look at it. It's a fluffy molten plastic 'rainbow' car. The dimensions are far too cutesy. What is it? A more powerful GT86, or what the GT86 should have been. It doesn't deserve the revered Supra moniker. They're not appealing in the least to previous generation Supra owners who would have been the natural audience when you resurrect a name like that (it's not even a 2+2). If they're not appealing to that audience, then FFS, leave the name alone and call it something else! My beef isn't with the car which I no longer have any interest in, they've ruined the expectation for me, but the marketing fob off by trading off a name to which this thing doesn't embody the values that went before, not to mention the accompanying fanfare and teasing along with the fantastic looking FT1 concepts along the way. It annoys me and leaves me disappointed in equal measure.
Even when it'll inevitably fall into tuner hands and become highly modified to give it real teeth it could still never pull off looking like a proper sports car, it just doesn't do it. The Supra was a super car slayer in its day, proudly taking the fight to Italian supercars and exotica. This thing aims low, chasing just above the MX5 esque type sector and not the traditional Supra battleground. I'm sure it'll be a lovely little sports car, but the Supra was a sledgehammer of a car, not a camping mallet
All that BS about we should be happy they produced it and it wouldn't have happened without platform sharing. What a load of poppycock. They already had what they needed for a true Supra successor in the LFA which would have been a far more suitable platform for a successor. They certainly didn't worry about platform sharing with that! They had all the tooling already.
Still, in this day and age, I'm clearly a dinosaur. They may yet offer a cycle rack for this Supra.
It's doesn't conjure up any awesome adjectives in my mind, quite the opposite in fact.
I've tried to keep out of 'Supra' posts as I have nothing nice to say. Again, it's not about the car, it's about the sell out in using that name and it runs deeper than that, Toyota are selling out on far too many fronts. The Hilux has been neutered with its underpowered limp wristed engine. The Landcruiser has been watered down, both cars we currently own and neither of which will be replaced by Toyotas. After having had Toyotas for 25+ years they no longer make anything that appeals, with other manufacturers soon to be picking up the slack.
Nito ignore 300bhp
I agree with many of your points, he finds it hard to concede just how high up the car charts performance wise a Mkiv was in 1993. He will not acknowledge that a modest power/performance gain in 25 years is not in keeping with all other comparable cars that had gone through various Mk changes over the years. Will not accept that our point of view is the Supra should have been a bit more special like the NSX from Honda and GTR from Nissan ie a big step up.
I agree with many of your points, he finds it hard to concede just how high up the car charts performance wise a Mkiv was in 1993. He will not acknowledge that a modest power/performance gain in 25 years is not in keeping with all other comparable cars that had gone through various Mk changes over the years. Will not accept that our point of view is the Supra should have been a bit more special like the NSX from Honda and GTR from Nissan ie a big step up.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, however it seems a lot of people are writing the new Supra off before they’ve driven, or even seen it in the metal.
Most of the reviews I’ve seen are extremely positive, and the car sounds like it fairs well against the competition!
I’m looking forward to driving the car next week :-)
Most of the reviews I’ve seen are extremely positive, and the car sounds like it fairs well against the competition!
I’m looking forward to driving the car next week :-)
bozzy. said:
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, however it seems a lot of people are writing the new Supra off before they’ve driven, or even seen it in the metal.
Most of the reviews I’ve seen are extremely positive, and the car sounds like it fairs well against the competition!
I’m looking forward to driving the car next week :-)
The initial Autocar review against the M2 Comp and 4-pot Cayman seems to be positive Most of the reviews I’ve seen are extremely positive, and the car sounds like it fairs well against the competition!
I’m looking forward to driving the car next week :-)
I’ll wait for the full road test plus often the initial euphoria wears off after another group test and some fellow testers have their hands on it
s m said:
I’ll wait for the full road test plus often the initial euphoria wears off after another group test and some fellow testers have their hands on it
That is a surprising victory and I didn't expect that. As you say though I also think that euphoria has set in, I guess that they've marked the Porsche down because it is only a 4 cylinder and the M2 down because its getting on a bit. It is either brand new car excitement or the Supra is genuinely something special.
s m said:
The initial Autocar review against the M2 Comp and 4-pot Cayman seems to be positive
I’ll wait for the full road test plus often the initial euphoria wears off after another group test and some fellow testers have their hands on it
Odd choice of cars for a roadtest. I'm no Porsche fan boy but surely a Cayman S was the obvious choice or is this payback for Porsche only ever having fully kitted press cars with carbon brakes etc and a list price above 75k?I’ll wait for the full road test plus often the initial euphoria wears off after another group test and some fellow testers have their hands on it
And there was the obvious Frenchie missing.
Miserablegit said:
s m said:
The initial Autocar review against the M2 Comp and 4-pot Cayman seems to be positive
I’ll wait for the full road test plus often the initial euphoria wears off after another group test and some fellow testers have their hands on it
Odd choice of cars for a roadtest. I'm no Porsche fan boy but surely a Cayman S was the obvious choice or is this payback for Porsche only ever having fully kitted press cars with carbon brakes etc and a list price above 75k?I’ll wait for the full road test plus often the initial euphoria wears off after another group test and some fellow testers have their hands on it
And there was the obvious Frenchie missing.
Different finishing order completely - different journo though
Edited by s m on Wednesday 19th June 18:53
Miserablegit said:
Thank you!
I wish the supra all the best - the more competition we have in this sector the better the cars will be.
Certainly seems to be within a cat’s whisker of the C&D tested Supra in terms of go I wish the supra all the best - the more competition we have in this sector the better the cars will be.
They just said it seems to lack a character of its own, certainly quick cross country
bozzy. said:
I received my joining instructions for the half day I have with the car at Thruxton next week. I’ll be driving the car on track, road, and Toyota have also planned a skid pan for us.
To say I’m excited is an understatement!
Good to hear - that is how buying a sports car should be. I hope you like it. Despite all the naysayers it offers another option in this market which is a good thing.To say I’m excited is an understatement!
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